How good is Colleen Clinkenbeard as SSJ2 Gohan in Kai

[ABED]

Same with Stephanie Nadolny who sounded to me like Simba from the Lion King.

But without JTT's talent.

I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of chemistry, they don't record together.

I'll admit that Colleen is a tad feminine for my tastes but I'll take her acting skills with a feminine voice over Nadolny's rasp any day.

[Kakarot88]

I'm not sure what you're referring to in terms of chemistry, they don't record together.

Wow! I had no idea, that explains why their interactions do not feel like they are playing off of each other. It's because they litterally phone it in!? That's so crazy!

Here's what I'm getting at in terms of interaction and chemistry. In the Original version Masako Nozawa is doing both roles so yeah she can and does play off herself when they re-record the lines if they were supposed to overlap or she just switches voices on the fly, which she did most of the time (such friggen tallent!...ABED I know you know this but I personally wanted to put it out there so others can contribute to the discussion, so don't think I'm talking down). Moreover, I know in the original broadcast in the US the actors would record in studio with tape so they did actually interact and because it was tape they often would practice beforehand because they had a limited amount of takes they would do. It's what gives that shows interactions such heart cuz they are actually interacting.

BUT just so I am clear the performances in Kai are literally phoned in? If that's the case I find Schemmel's performance way better that I give him credit for becuase although it's not as good as the passion he had the first go around this time he also had to not only deal with a feminine Gohan but also had to predict what Clinkenbeard would do rather than play off of it, that's intense!

[El Diabeetus]

I also find her terrible because when Goku's coaching Gohan against Cell via Kaio there just seems to be no father son chemistry between Schemmel and Clinkenbeard like there was when Schemmel and Nadolny did the scene. Colleen Clinkenbeard

Seems odd considering Schemmel himself doesn't even seem to like Nadolny's Gohan:
https://twitter.com/SeanSchemmel/status ... 2704355328

Even if Clickenbeard sounds girly, which a 9 year old can sound like. I don't find Nadolny believeable as Gohan at all. She sounds too old, which is why I like her as Goku but not as Gohan. You can't apply a voice for that sounds more like a young teenager to a kid. Ignoring the fact that the games calling Pre-teen/Cell Games Gohan, Teen Gohan makes no sense. But, then again we just see different sides of this. I think the Kai dub murders the Z dub in quality in every way, shape or form, but you see it the other way. Which is fine. I just don't hear passion in the Z performance. I hear awkward rookie readings, although around Cell it got a little better.

Clickenbeard also deepened it slightly, which was a nice touch.

[Looneygamemaster]

If that's the case I find Schemmel's performance way better that I give him credit for becuase although it's not as good as the passion he had the first go around this time he also had to not only deal with a feminine Gohan but also had to predict what Clinkenbeard would do rather than play off of it, that's intense!

I highly doubt Z's dub had the original cast "play off each other" either. That very rarely happens in English dubbing.

[Kakarot88]

If that's the case I find Schemmel's performance way better that I give him credit for becuase although it's not as good as the passion he had the first go around this time he also had to not only deal with a feminine Gohan but also had to predict what Clinkenbeard would do rather than play off of it, that's intense!

I highly doubt Z's dub had the original cast "play off each other" either. That very rarely happens in English dubbing.

Ok, well do you have a reason?

Check this out this as well, at around 10:14 Sabat discusses how in the old dub they as a cast did not know the story and what was coming and so that's why they acted so surprised etc. with events. And it's that emotion that the old American dub and the Original Japanese Cast conveyed. Both of those groups were learning about the story as they got the script The performances were not overly analytical and concerned with angry fans. Sabat's Kai and his cast's performances are in my opinion forced to pander to what those who did not enjoy the Z dub want. The more I learn about Sabat's Kai the more its shortcomings make sense, the marketing schemes work, the casting change for legitimate and illegitmate reasons makes sense and the fans that love Kai I begin to understand.

Sabat's Kai truely is the perfect product for those it was made for: people unhappy with Z.

[ABED]

The performances were not overly analytical and concerned with angry fans. Sabat's Kai and his cast's performances are in my opinion forced to pander to what those who did not enjoy the Z dub want.

From every interview and q and a I can get my hands on, they aren't doing this as pure fanservice. They aren't pandering with their casting or performances, they are passionate this time around. They actually know how to act and know their characters.

https://twitter.com/SeanSchemmel/status ... 2704355328

Wow, seems harsh.

BUT just so I am clear the performances in Kai are literally phoned in? If that's the case I find Schemmel's performance way better that I give him credit for becuase although it's not as good as the passion he had the first go around this time he also had to not only deal with a feminine Gohan but also had to predict what Clinkenbeard would do rather than play off of it, that's intense!

I have no idea if you're kidding.

Sabat's Kai truely is the perfect product for those it was made for: people unhappy with Z.

We have good reason to be unhappy with such a haphazard product, but the show doesn't appeal exclusively to that small segment.

[Kakarot88]

Seems odd considering Schemmel himself doesn't even seem to like Nadolny's Gohan:
https://twitter.com/SeanSchemmel/status ... 2704355328

Oh I'm all but certain he and Sabat are not even on speaking terms with Nadolny...more after this paragraph, but first let me say:
I respect your opinion too and am glad we can discuss this.
I also want to address using actors opinions on liking their performances more now in Kai or disliking an older VA... that does not matter to me. The reason is that kind of thinking first seeks to make an objective point based on subjective opinion which, no disrespect, is ironically illogical. For example, my favorite color is blue. If God were to tell me "You know I made that when I was just starting out creating stuff and I think in fact when I later made the color red I did a better job." I would respond "neat, God, but I still think you did better with blue." The creator's preference has no bearing on the audience's preference. A great example of this is the Star Wars franchise lol, but I digress.

Ok, now, truth be told I can appreciate your point, after all "shouldn't the actor know what's best?"...he says realizing Sean Schemmel has said the "Hope of the Universe" Speech is still one of his favorites (see the Animazement discussion threads or Derek Padula's blog on the East v. West Pannel and the Dragon Ball Z Blu ray Level sets which he and Sabat pushed hard on and Schemmel chose that for his Goku quote).

Now, true Mr. Schemmel did indeed make sure he said "Son Goku" in Kai and has been very involved in making the dub of Kai more accurate. All of those efforts aside, I find his passion lacking. Love his original work, love his passion, love he has opinions, but those really hold no water especially given their subjective nature.

Long story short, mad respect for you and your opinion, but we are both dug in and an actor's opinion cannot change that for me. And I am equally sure had Sabat said "I wish the old crew was back" that would only change your opinion of Sabat as a person and not Kai as a product. Fair?

SO, back on topic, well away from the of the "I don't" twitter quote: it seems to me that after reading and listening to several interviews that there may have been more than "creative differences" going on with the cast and that what was underlying a lot of this was fan service and break downs of friendships ie firing because people wouldn't play nice.

Rather than discuss it here, when I've got more concrete info I'll start a new topic. If after exhausting my last few follow ups I still don't have anything concrete I'll PM you what I got and you can decided for yourself. Cheers

[ABED]

You keeps saying fan service, but if I was in their shoes, I would've wanted a second bat as well because they were awful when they began (by and large) and their scripts didn't help matters. You hear passion, I don't. All I hear is a bunch of greenhorns who haven't learned their craft, and neither they nor the writers or director understand the property. The closer they got to the original, and the more comfortable they got with their characters and the craft of voice acting, the better it got. Nadolny got a little better, but she's still not one of the better actresses FUNi employed. She did some okay screams, and her performance as Gohan improved by the time Cell came around but Colleen is overall a far better actress.

You hear passion during the "hope of the universe" and that baffles me. I don't. I hear a very flat delivery.

[Hades]

While it is a step up from the old dub, I think Colleen made gohan sound far too whiny. As in Linkara's Superboy "i'll kill you to death!" Prime whiny.

[Kakarot88]

BUT just so I am clear the performances in Kai are literally phoned in? If that's the case I find Schemmel's performance way better that I give him credit for becuase although it's not as good as the passion he had the first go around this time he also had to not only deal with a feminine Gohan but also had to predict what Clinkenbeard would do rather than play off of it, that's intense!

I have no idea if you're kidding.

I'm being marginally facetious, I know they had like one booth in Texas and would take turns etc. But I was being serious about judging Schemmels performance in those scenes with Clinkenbeard, I shouldn't blame him for those scenes being awkward, she's 50% of the scene so even if Sean's performance is 100% amazing the scene is still going to suffer from her being in it.

[Looneygamemaster]

Ok, well do you have a reason?

What reason? I simply mentioned that most English dubs do not have voice actors in the same recording, and therefore, they don't get to play off of each other. Until I hear otherwise, I'm going to assume that Z was done the same way Kai was.

As many good English dubs have shown, that doesn't have to be a deal-breaker.

[B]

The performances were not overly analytical and concerned with angry fans. Sabat's Kai and his cast's performances are in my opinion forced to pander to what those who did not enjoy the Z dub want.

... You mean, the show? as it is? It's so crazy we would want that.

The idea that pro-Japanese fans are being pandered to is laughable when there are probably still a great deal of characters people would have like to seen recast, or at the very least use their correct names. Sabat has even said they were going to go forward with Linda Young as Freeza until it became clear she physically couldn't keep up with his lines, now that he was being correctly characterized(and probably just being ten years older as well).

Also, I will never not roll my eyes when someone honestly says that Kai is "overly analytical" or "too wordy." If I can be blunt, it absolutely reeks of "where are all these big words coming from?!", when, in comparison to anything that isn't the old dub, aren't overly complex words or scripts at all.

[Metalwario64]

Also, I will never not roll my eyes when someone honestly says that Kai is "overly analytical" or "too wordy." If I can be blunt, it absolutely reeks of "where are all these big words coming from?!", when, in comparison to anything that isn't the old dub, aren't overly complex words or scripts at all.

Yeah, I didn't want to say it, but those are my thoughts exactly.

[El Diabeetus]

Now, true Mr. Schemmel did indeed make sure he said "Son Goku" in Kai and has been very involved in making the dub of Kai more accurate. All of those efforts aside, I find his passion lacking. Love his original work, love his passion, love he has opinions, but those really hold no water especially given their subjective nature.

Long story short, mad respect for you and your opinion, but we are both dug in and an actor's opinion cannot change that for me. And I am equally sure had Sabat said "I wish the old crew was back" that would only change your opinion of Sabat as a person and not Kai as a product. Fair?

SO, back on topic, well away from the of the "I don't" twitter quote: it seems to me that after reading and listening to several interviews that there may have been more than "creative differences" going on with the cast and that what was underlying a lot of this was fan service and break downs of friendships ie firing because people wouldn't play nice.

Rather than discuss it here, when I've got more concrete info I'll start a new topic. If after exhausting my last few follow ups I still don't have anything concrete I'll PM you what I got and you can decided for yourself. Cheers

It wouldn't affect my opinion of Sabat. I'd be bummed, but, that would be his choice. I've been happy with Sabat lately, especially when he revealed that he pushed for Beerus keeping away from the Bills trend that most of the other dubs for Battle of Gods went with. I'd love to see what you've dug up, behind the scenes tidbits always interest the hell out of me. Actually when recording with OmegaRockman for the Goku and Friends Return Fandub, he brought that point up when we ended up talking about the official dubs. Would make more sense why he'd outright just deny wanting her back. Love her as Goku (captures the wild boy, hick-ish, odd charm of Goku. But not quite for the polite, somewhat awkward Gohan - in my opinion of course.)

Also, I will never not roll my eyes when someone honestly says that Kai is "overly analytical" or "too wordy." If I can be blunt, it absolutely reeks of "where are all these big words coming from?!", when, in comparison to anything that isn't the old dub, aren't overly complex words or scripts at all.

Yeah, I didn't want to say it, but those are my thoughts exactly.

100% true, but it doesn't bother me that much. When it's mainly Freeza, his henchmen and Vegeta that speak that way. I'm fine with it being overly wordy as long as Goku isn't speaking more intelligently than he should. Well, he is speaking more intelligently in English by default. But, he talks like a normal average guy, so doesn't bother me that much. Wish they would've had him say 'ain't' more and drop 'g's more.

[penguintruth]

The great thing about Clinkenbeard's Gohan, besides the fact that, unlike the previous VA for him, she can act, is that it ages gradually with the character. Cell Games-era Gohan sounds slightly older than the Gohan that went into the ROSAT. Gohan at the beginning of the Cell/Artificial Human arc sounds older than in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs. She makes the little sheltered kid at the beginning sound cute, vulnerable, and endearing and as the boy grows, her voice evolves and the performance strengthens.

She's bar none the best English dub VA to play the character.

[KentalSSJ6]

The great thing about Clinkenbeard's Gohan, besides the fact that, unlike the previous VA for him, she can act, is that it ages gradually with the character. Cell Games-era Gohan sounds slightly older than the Gohan that went into the ROSAT. Gohan at the beginning of the Cell/Artificial Human arc sounds older than in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs. She makes the little sheltered kid at the beginning sound cute, vulnerable, and endearing and as the boy grows, her voice evolves and the performance strengthens.

She's bar none the best English dub VA to play the character.

No idea why this is but my favorite line of her as Gohan is in episode one where she says "Your a pretty bird."

No idea why I like that line so much.

[Duo]

The great thing about Clinkenbeard's Gohan, besides the fact that, unlike the previous VA for him, she can act, is that it ages gradually with the character. Cell Games-era Gohan sounds slightly older than the Gohan that went into the ROSAT. Gohan at the beginning of the Cell/Artificial Human arc sounds older than in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs. She makes the little sheltered kid at the beginning sound cute, vulnerable, and endearing and as the boy grows, her voice evolves and the performance strengthens.

She's bar none the best English dub VA to play the character.

I'm absolutely on board with this. She has given more depth and personality to the character we ever got from the previous voice actresses, both of which I actually liked at the time they were being used. Her Gohan sounds much closer to an English Masako Nozawa then any interpretation of Gohan (or a young Goku, if need be) then we've ever gotten in the states.

[Freeza Soldier #156]

The great thing about Clinkenbeard's Gohan, besides the fact that, unlike the previous VA for him, she can act, is that it ages gradually with the character. Cell Games-era Gohan sounds slightly older than the Gohan that went into the ROSAT. Gohan at the beginning of the Cell/Artificial Human arc sounds older than in the Saiyan and Freeza arcs. She makes the little sheltered kid at the beginning sound cute, vulnerable, and endearing and as the boy grows, her voice evolves and the performance strengthens.

She's bar none the best English dub VA to play the character.

I agree with this completely. I'm not as critical on Nadolny's performance as a lot of people (it never really bothered me too much), but I do think Clinkenbeard was leaps and bounds above any past performance. Her interpretation sounds the most genuine and realistic to me for a growing boy. The one thing that I always did find odd about Nadolny's Gohan when I was a kid was the fact that the voice never changed. From the Saiyan Arc through the Cell Arc he sounded exactly the same, which in the case of the Saiyan and Freeza arcs, was way too old and unnatural.

[JEFFMAN219]

Just watched episode 96 of dbz kai and ya Collen is a great voice actor for SSJ2 Gohan. I don't know why people hate her voice as Gohan.

[Nikkolas]

Part of it is nostalgia, part of it is the fact she sounds too much like Luffy, who I hate.

Also nadolny can act. Just Saiyan.