Do you think Dragon Ball had too much perv moments ?

[KentalSSJ6]

Let's just say I wouldn't want to watch any uncut Dragonball in front of my family.

It seems unacceptable the way Roshi is portrayed in the anime, and some of the stuff mentioned in this thread (Oolong wanting to drug Bulma.. I forgot about that..) are pretty disgraceful. I guess the only way one can justify it is by saying "these characters get what's coming to them".

Interesting. When I was younger my mom watched me play through all 3 God of War games and loved it all. Yet, she wont watch DBZ, FMA, or Cowboy Bebop. She loved Wolf Children though.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Same here. My mom loves Dragon Ball (well, not enough to own/watch it herself really, but she always enjoyed watching it when I was watching it), even some of the pervier humor such as Roshi or the pat-pat, if you even want to call the latter 'pervy'. It would take something far more extreme for me to be uncomfortable watching it around my family, like...Girls Bravo. Or Shin-chan.

[KentalSSJ6]

Same here. My mom loves Dragon Ball (well, not enough to own/watch it herself really, but she always enjoyed watching it when I was watching it), even some of the pervier humor such as Roshi or the pat-pat, if you even want to call the latter 'pervy'. It would take something far more extreme for me to be uncomfortable watching it around my family, like...Girls Bravo. Or Shin-chan.

Shin Chan. I could not get through that show to save my life. I know its meant to look the way it does but...gah its just so friggin ugly.

[RocktheDragon]

Let's just say I wouldn't want to watch any uncut Dragonball in front of my family.

It seems unacceptable the way Roshi is portrayed in the anime, and some of the stuff mentioned in this thread (Oolong wanting to drug Bulma.. I forgot about that..) are pretty disgraceful. I guess the only way one can justify it is by saying "these characters get what's coming to them".

This reminds me of the Dragon Ball episode I watched today with the wife concerning Kame-Senin shrinking down with Bulma's device to get some naked action in the bathroom. Something like that would be pretty odd for an older generation to see in any circumstance I guess.

[Cipher]

I would have to agree with ringworm on this one. Even though kids do tend to imitate what they see in media, it's not right to blame fictional material for what goes wrong with someone. It's the parent's jobs to teach the difference between fact and fiction,

Literally no one is doing that. It's not fact vs. fiction. It's that brushing that kind of stuff off as humor contributes to a societal attitude that really does brush those things off.

Stuff like "pat-pat" mentioned on this page is hilarious though, and doesn't do anything to make light of molestation of the objectification of women.

[Gaffer Tape]

Stuff like "pat-pat" mentioned on this page is hilarious though, and doesn't do anything to make light of molestation of the objectification of women.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying you found the "pat-pat" moments in the series to be hilarious, or are you saying it's hilarious that such a term is supposedly being used to make light of the molestation of women?

[Ringworm128]

I would have to agree with ringworm on this one. Even though kids do tend to imitate what they see in media, it's not right to blame fictional material for what goes wrong with someone. It's the parent's jobs to teach the difference between fact and fiction,

Literally no one is doing that. It's not fact vs. fiction. It's that brushing that kind of stuff off as humor contributes to a societal attitude that really does brush those things off.

Stuff like "pat-pat" mentioned on this page is hilarious though, and doesn't do anything to make light of molestation of the objectification of women.

Tom and Jerry have been around for over half a century yet attitudes towards animal cruelty isn't lighter. We have countless movies and games that have guns yet when a real shooting goes down people don't treat it as something trivial.

[Cipher]

I'm not sure what you mean here. Are you saying you found the "pat-pat" moments in the series to be hilarious, or are you saying it's hilarious that such a term is supposedly being used to make light of the molestation of women?

Ah, no. Sorry. I was trying to clarify a distinction between all sex-related humor ("pat-pat" specifically referring to the term Goku uses for patting people's crotches to identify their gender in the Viz translation of early Dragon Ball), which can be quite funny, and those which specifically brush off molesting women, which I could do without.

Tom and Jerry have been around for over half a century yet attitudes towards animal cruelty isn't lighter. We have countless movies and games that have guns yet when a real shooting goes down people don't treat it as something trivial.

Okay. But people do actually treat women's issues and objectification as trivial. The distinction you're getting at is exactly why those moments are uncomfortable.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Literally no one is doing that. It's not fact vs. fiction. It's that brushing that kind of stuff off as humor contributes to a societal attitude that really does brush those things off.

Not here, directly, maybe - but that is by and large how society seems to treat it. Look at how quickly video games are blamed every time there's a school shooting for example. No, it couldn't possibly be that the kid had enough of being bullied, or that there was trouble at home, or he was never taught to tell right from wrong or fake versus real, or any other host of possible problems. My point is that society's problem, from what I can tell anyway, is how quick we are to blame 'fictional' material for being offensive or 'wrong', rather than just not watching it if it offends us. And I certainly don't see very many people online or in person either one suddenly just laughing it off when actual rape or molestation happens. It's still treated as a very serious offense.

Again, all just how I myself personally look at it though, and I'm not claiming to be any kind of social expert.

[rereboy]

I believe you are misunderstanding me. When I say "have eyes for no one else", I mean don't purposefully fantasize about the beauty of some other woman. Yes, of course your hormones are going to make you occasionally look at other men and women, that's just part of your sexual nature. But I believe there's a difference between occasionally glancing over at someone for a few seconds, and actually picturing a naked man/woman in your mind as you're drawing him/her.

Again, unless there's some really important reason it has to be that way, I believe one is hurting him/herself by doing so.

I think you are not really understanding the difference between picturing and drawing a beautiful naked man/woman, and actually wanting to betray your partner. They are very different things and one doesn't imply the other.

Let's just say I wouldn't want to watch any uncut Dragonball in front of my family.

It seems unacceptable the way Roshi is portrayed in the anime, and some of the stuff mentioned in this thread (Oolong wanting to drug Bulma.. I forgot about that..) are pretty disgraceful. I guess the only way one can justify it is by saying "these characters get what's coming to them".

Tell me, when watching the three stooges for example, is your family shocked by the gratuitous violence? What they do in that show, like for example hitting other people with an hammer in the head, is violent, disrespectful of other's well being and much more harmful in reality than nudity or sex.

And yet hardly anyone has a problem with it. Why? Simple. Because its not real. There is a difference between reality and fictional works. Something can be amusing and funny in a fictional work while it really isn't in reality because of that difference. Dragon Ball's pervy jokes are exactly like that. A perv old man like Roshi for example would be creepy in reality, but in a fictional work like Dragon Ball its hilarious.

Understanding the difference between reality and fictional works regarding violence, but suddenly not understanding difference between reality and fictional works regarding nudity and sex is rather hypocritical, IMO.

[TheGreatness25]

Honestly, I'm not into cartoon perviness, so I wouldn't mind if all of it got passed up on the drawing board. I don't care either way, but it doesn't do anything for me. I don't know who it would do anything for either. Even as a kid, it was "cool" that a show would be so "adult-themed," but it was never something huge. It really should have laid off of the majority of what Roshi did with the emale characters. Randomly grabbing them and stuff. I mean that's really creepy old man stuff. Am I supposed to respect this creepy old pedophile trying to feel up on teenage girls?

[Rocketman]

Fiction can influence how we see reality.

No, Dragonball by itself will not "corrupt the children". But Dragonball AND Quagmire AND other TV shows AND movies AND music AND advertisements AND AND AND will skew the cultural zeitgeist, which influences our actions and what we feel is right.

Just like minstrel shows and Birth of a Nation contributed to the oppression of blacks.

[rereboy]

Sounds like one of those speeches trying to convince us that videogames contribute to violence and gun violence when several studies tell us otherwise.

[Rocketman]

Sounds like one of those speeches trying to convince us that videogames contribute to violence and gun violence when several studies tell us otherwise.

So why was it so easy to create and sustain Jim Crow throughout the United States?
Because whites believed blacks to be inferior, either stupid or violent or both, and thus needing to be segregated.
Why did they believe that?
Because white culture pushed the idea that blacks were inferior. White people grew up hearing over and over that blacks were inferior, both seriously and jokingly.

[rereboy]

Sounds like one of those speeches trying to convince us that videogames contribute to violence and gun violence when several studies tell us otherwise.

So why was it so easy to create and sustain Jim Crow throughout the United States?

I have no idea, I don't even know who that was, I'm not even american to know that much about american history. But its seems to me that if blacks were oppressed, it was because people were racist and afraid of the eventual social rise of the blacks, which would have influenced the tone of some propaganda and shows, and not really the other way around.

[Rocketman]

it was because people were racist and afraid of the eventual social rise of the blacks, which would have influenced the tone of some propaganda and shows, and not really the other way around.

It goes both ways. Society creates the shows, which then feed back into society, especially in raising children who are completely acclimated to the idea that blacks are inferior.

Even jokes fall into this. There is literally an entire genre of Polish jokes in the US, because it helped reinforce racism against Polish immigrants in the early 1900s. The whole "ginger" series of jokes began as hatred for Irish immigrants.

If you can make something a joke, and you can tell that joke over and over, you influence the perception of that thing. I mean, just look at this thread for people defending drugging a girl to molest her as "just a joke".

But it's just fiction, right? No way treating that as a joke could affect the real world....right?

[Fionordequester]

Rocketman, I too believe that fiction has a much more powerful influence on our beliefs and thoughts than many give it credit for...but how do you know it was social media's fault here? I mean, it surely influenced the guys who read it in the paper's and said "it was the girl's fault", but, I think it's a stretch to say that such fiction could've made the two jocks into rapists, you know what I mean? I mean, it's POSSIBLE, but where's the evidence?

That said, I agree with the general message of what you're saying, and in fact, what you're saying is a phenomena that you'll find out a lot about when you enter the Psychology field.

[Gyt Kaliba]

Fiction can have an effect, but if reading something with a rape joke makes someone into a rapist, then there was something wrong to begin with. A book/movie/game/etc. isn't going to suddenly come to life and hold a gun to your head demanding you do these things. It comes down in the end to a person's own perception of reality, and if something like a children's show is what pushes them over the edge, then there was already on the edge for some other reason to begin with.

I'm not saying anything and everything should be fair game just because it's fiction. There is something to be said for what's tasteful or not (and even then, how far into 'distasteful' territory do you go before it's offensive? It's again something that's going to vary from individual to individual), but a non-living thing cannot be the sole blame for the cause of someone doing something terrible.

[Fionordequester]

It comes down in the end to a person's own perception of reality, and if something like a children's show is what pushes them over the edge, then there was already on the edge for some other reason to begin with.

On the other hand, what if you're a recovering addict or something? If that's the case, why make it harder for them by sprinkling inappropriate stuff into material that would otherwise bring them great joy? Imagine someone addicted to porn reading Dragon Ball for the very first time, having a ball, when all of a sudden all the sexual jokes start coming in. He may not be pushed back into bad habits, but he'll probably look at the book, say "I can't read this! It has this stuff in it!", and he never looks into any of the other books.

If that happens, he missed something so wonderful because something ruined it for him, you know what I'm saying? I know that's happened to me, with certain hilarious reviews (like RedLetterMedia's work).

[Gyt Kaliba]

On the other hand, what if you're a recovering addict or something? If that's the case, why make it harder for them by sprinkling inappropriate stuff into material that would otherwise bring them great joy? Imagine someone addicted to porn reading Dragon Ball for the very first time, having a ball, when all of a sudden all the sexual jokes start coming in. He may not be pushed back into bad habits, but he'll probably look at the book, say "I can't read this! It has this stuff in it!", and he never looks into any of the other books.

If that happens, he missed something so wonderful because something ruined it for him, you know what I'm saying?

That would indeed suck for them, but if they were a recovering addict, one could only hope they would have a support system of family and friends to help check out stuff this person is getting into, and to help the hypothetical person in question judge what material might be pushing them back under again or not. If missing out on certain entertainment is what it would take for them to get back to a stable life, than that's just the sacrifice that they would have to make - and with any luck, they would eventually recover enough to where they could dabble in whatever they wanted again without giving in to temptation (sort of like someone at a certain level of AA recovery will keep a bottle of wine or something around without caving in, to remind them of their successful struggle and how easy it is to slip if they're not careful).