If we assume the movies are the result of a divergence

[some_weirdGuy]

... what would the divergence event(s) be?

For example it occurs to me that that the Cooler movie could well be a 'what if the spirit bomb really had worked on frieza'.
That then means no goku super saiyan, no goku out in space,no frieza surviving, and even potentially reason for goku to mistake cooler as frieza - explaining many of the 'plot holes' it had.

Another I've heard before is that super 13/broly possibly occurs if vegeta actually beat second form cell, explaining why goku and gohan aren't in their mastered ssj forms and why everyone seems to be relaxing.

So, if we pretend/assume this is indeed the case, and that all movies are the result of a divergence in the timeline, what are your theories on what these events/changes would be?

[Patrick]

I had a discussion about this with my friends awhile back for movies 2-4 (Worlds Strongest, Tree of Might and Lord Slug).

We (more or less) agreed they would have fit in a lot better IF Goku had gotten back to Earth from Snake Way on time to save his friends in the battle against Nappa and Vegeta, rather than be late like he originally was.

Incidentally, I think movie 9 fits well without any changes, but I'm not entirely sure if there was something I was missing about it.

EDIT: This image might help out.

Spoiler:

[RocktheDragon]

I had a discussion about this with my friends awhile back for movies 2-4 (Worlds Strongest, Tree of Might and Lord Slug).

EDIT: This image might help out.

Spoiler:

I really enjoyed looking through that infographic. It really makes me want to revisit the movies, something that I have not had the time to do in quite a while. For some reason the movies seem to take a backseat to the anime and manga for me. What's even stranger is that I think I enjoy the movies quite a lot more than the anime (at least the original series)!

[garnetjester]

I like that timeline a lot! I couldn't hold my suspension of disbelief long enough to enjoy all of the movies because some of them made 0 sense to me, but with that graphic I might watch all of them again in a different light. Maybe not all of them in the same day though, because when I did that I became super bored with the "Goku is in trouble, Gohan decides to help and gets beaten in the process, Piccolo has to save him, Goku powers up and beats the main villain" running theme the first few of them have.

However, isn't Bojack unbound more related to the main timeline? If Vegeta beat semi-perfect cell, then Goku wouldn't have died and the movie has him dead and helping Gohan from the afterlife

[Hellspawn28]

The issue with Movie 8 taking place in a universe were Vegeta kills Cell is that Goku is seen dead in Movie 10 and 11 since those three movies take place in the same universe. My idea on what universe that the movies can take place in.

Movie 2 - Piccolo survive the blast from Nappa then Goku kills Vegeta with his Kamehameha. Chazou most likely stay dead and they used the Dragon Balls to wish back everyone.

Movie 3 - Goku arrive on time and no one was killed. Goku kills both Nappa and Vegeta.

Movie 4 - Goku kills Freeza with the Genki-Dama. Vegeta was most likely not wish back and the other Z fighters choose to stay on King Kai's Planet for a while to get stronger. King Kai makes a reference to Freeza, it's likely Goku and the others did fought Freeza in this AU.

The Coola Movies - Trunks most likely never went back in time which can explain why he was never seen or mention in both films. Kami sense a powerful energy in the city of Amenbo Island and so he fused with Piccolo. Piccolo kills #17, #18 and Cell then everyone goes to New Namek.

Movie 7 - Goku takes the heart medicine early then Goku and the others kill #16 - #18, and Cell.

The Broli Movies - The Cell games never happen and the Z fighters fight Cell after fighting Broli. Cell kills Goku and Gohan quickly kills Cell before he can blow up himself. Goku never returns back to the living world and Gohan & Goten both take care of Broli on their own. In Movie 11, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo and Kaioshin take care of Babidi and Dabra while Goten, Trunks, #18 and Kuririn fight Bio Broli. Piccolo fights Yakon and kills him while Gohan was able to defeat Dabra. So Majin Buu was never hatch out of his egg in this universe.

Movie 12 - Who the hell knows. The movie has other movie villains escaping out of Hell when those movies don't fit into the main timeline. This movie could take place in a special timeline where Movie 1 - 11 happen without causing major timeline issues.

Movie 9 and 13 fit pretty well. I do find it odd that Toei ignores those two films in DBZ since Tapion was never mention or seen again in DBZ or GT. Bojack and his gang are nowhere seen or mention as well.

[Pantalones]

Yeah, there's a few iffy bits in that timeline--as mentioned already, Goku is dead in the Bojack movie, so the Cell Games had to have played out the usual way before that happened. And I'm fairly sure I remember that Kaio or someone mentioned Slug being more powerful than Freeza in the Slug movie (which would be kind of silly if Goku hadn't fought or even heard of Freeza yet at the time.) They didn't mention which form of Freeza, of course, but consider that Goku's Super Saiyan form in that movie wasn't actually intended to be some sort of weaker "false Super Saiyan" when it was made (that idea didn't start going around until later on when the main series' version of Super Saiyan debuted and it turned out to look different), it was intended to be the real thing... so Slug survived being smacked around for a bit by a 50x (or at least 10x if you want to go by how strong Toriyama initially felt SSj should be, before it was established as 50x) stronger Goku. And then he later survives being run through by Goku powered by a transfusion of Piccolo's energy and Kaio-ken x100 (according to one of the guides, I think; the only indication that it's something other than a typical Kaio-ken in the movie itself is that huge flaring aura with Piccolo's image inside it when he first fires it up) and only finally dies from the combination of that wound and a Spirit Bomb that crashes him into his own machine and destroys it... Slug would have to at least be stronger than all of Freeza's suppressed forms for things to make any sense at all, assuming that Goku in this movie is around the same level he was during the Ginyu Force battles in the main series.

For the most part it seems to work okay, though. It's been a while since I've seen a lot of the movies, though, so I may be overlooking some detail that throws it off for one of them.

[Hellspawn28]

Everyone likes still dies in the other universes that the movies take place in. Everyone gets killed by #17 and #18 in Movie 2-4 universes and Buu likely kills everyone in the Coola movies universe and Movie 7 universe. I would imagine Beerus destroys the Earth in the Broli movie universe or Bebi takes over the Earth.

[KentalSSJ6]

The issue with Movie 8 taking place in a universe were Vegeta kills Cell is that Goku is seen dead in Movie 10 and 11 since those three movies take place in the same universe. My idea on what universe that the movies can take place in.

Movie 2 - Piccolo survive the blast from Nappa then Goku kills Vegeta with his Kamehameha. Chazou most likely stay dead and they used the Dragon Balls to wish back everyone.

Movie 3 - Goku arrive on time and no one was killed. Goku kills both Nappa and Vegeta.

Movie 4 - Goku kills Freeza with the Genki-Dama. Vegeta was most likely not wish back and the other Z fighters choose to stay on King Kai's Planet for a while to get stronger. King Kai makes a reference to Freeza, it's likely Goku and the others did fought Freeza in this AU.

The Coola Movies - Trunks most likely never went back in time which can explain why he was never seen or mention in both films. Kami sense a powerful energy in the city of Amenbo Island and so he fused with Piccolo. Piccolo kills #17, #18 and Cell then everyone goes to New Namek.

Movie 7 - Goku takes the heart medicine early then Goku and the others kill #16 - #18, and Cell.

The Broli Movies - The Cell games never happen and the Z fighters fight Cell after fighting Broli. Cell kills Goku and Gohan quickly kills Cell before he can blow up himself. Goku never returns back to the living world and Gohan & Goten both take care of Broli on their own. In Movie 11, Gohan, Vegeta, Piccolo and Kaioshin take care of Babidi and Dabra while Goten, Trunks, #18 and Kuririn fight Bio Broli. Piccolo fights Yakon and kills him while Gohan was able to defeat Dabra. So Majin Buu was never hatch out of his egg in this universe.

Movie 12 - Who the hell knows. The movie has other movie villains escaping out of Hell when those movies don't fit into the main timeline. This movie could take place in a special timeline where Movie 1 - 11 happen without causing major timeline issues.

Movie 9 and 13 fit pretty well. I do find it odd that Toei ignores those two films in DBZ since Tapion was never mention or seen again in DBZ or GT. Bojack and his gang are nowhere seen or mention as well.

Which is a shame because movie 9 and 13 are arguably the best. Bojack and his minions are arguably the best designed villains we got since BOG and Tapion's race and history had a fleshed out backstory. Really wished their races were expanded upon because there is a lot of materiel to work with them.

[Hellspawn28]

It would be cool if Bojack and his gang made a cameo in Hell during the Buu saga when they were watching Goku fighting Kid Buu. I think the kids who watch DBZ on TV at the time in Japan would know who Bojack is since they likely saw the movie.

[RandomGuy96]

Movie 9 has more continuity issues than Movie 5 (i.e. it has one). Movies 5 and 13 can be fit in the main timeline without any issues. 1 and 9 DO have issues, but for the most part they're small, and 1 is officially placed in the timeline anyway, at least the anime's. Soooooo... I'll just cover the other movies:

Movie 2- Goku arrives in time to save Piccolo from Nappa.

Movie 3- same 'verse as Movie 3; Goku, Piccolo, and Gohan have already resurrected everyone and they've all gone back to training.

Movie 4- Freeza actually gets killed by the Spirit Bomb on Namek.

Movie 6- Kamiccolo and the three Super Saiyans barley pull a victory against the two androids (no 16 in this timeline). Kamiccolo later kills Imperfect Cell.

Movie 7- Chronologically before 6. After Kamiccolo and the Super Saiyans defeat 17 and 18, Gero's computer builds new androids to fight them. This is actually the timeline where Cell comes from (or at least linked to it); after 13-15 are defeated, Trunks takes the remote to deactivate 17 and 18 and goes back to his own timeline and does so. Then Cell kills him, takes his time machine, and comes to our timeline.

Movie 8- Vegeta killed Semi-Perfect, Goku and Gohan left the ROSAT early.

Movie 10- AU of an AU. Broly is easily defeated by post-CG heroes in Movie 8. The events of the Buu arc happen, but Goku doesn't screw around here and immediately kills Fat Buu after Vegeta dies, without teaching Goten and Trunks fusion.

Movie 11- Same timeline as 10. Goten and Trunks deal with Bio-Broly while Gohan is... I don't know, screwing Videl or something. Goku and Vegeta are still dead, and SS2 Goku later takes care of a rampaging Broly in Hell.

Movie 12- either this is the same timeline, and Goku still somehow taught the kids fusion from the Afterlife (being concerned about Earth having a good defender), or it's ANOTHER AU where Goku/Gotenks killed Fat Buu after he took out Vegeta.

Movie 14- Mister Satan successfully reforms Fat Buu. Super Buu is never formed and the Fusion Saga never happens.

[Hellspawn28]

I believe in Movie 11, Goku never went to Earth which can explain why he is in Other World. I think Gohan could have handle Dabra on his own or Vegeta takes him out. Piccolo would have no issues taking out Yakon since Yakon would likely kill him in one attack.

[Patrick]

Movie 9 has more continuity issues than Movie 5 (i.e. it has one). Movies 5 and 13 can be fit in the main timeline without any issues. 1 and 9 DO have issues.

I don't think that Movie 5 is completely free of errors, the biggest one I can think of is that Gohan has a Saiyan tail and has the bowl haircut. He would have had a different hairstyle since he returned from Namek, and also wouldn't have his tail at all.

Can you please tell me some of the errors Movie 9 has? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but it's been awhile since I watched Movie 9.

[garnetjester]

In the Buu saga Gohan says he hasn't seen his father since the Cell Games, which excludes the movie, I think. But I don't know if this is the same error RandomGuy was talking about

[RandomGuy96]

Movie 9 has more continuity issues than Movie 5 (i.e. it has one). Movies 5 and 13 can be fit in the main timeline without any issues. 1 and 9 DO have issues.

I don't think that Movie 5 is completely free of errors, the biggest one I can think of is that Gohan has a Saiyan tail and has the bowl haircut. He would have had a different hairstyle since he returned from Namek, and also wouldn't have his tail at all.

Can you please tell me some of the errors Movie 9 has? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but it's been awhile since I watched Movie 9.

Gohan could've regrown his tail and cut his hair. That's really simple and not exactly an error.

In the Buu saga Gohan says he hasn't seen his father since the Cell Games, which excludes the movie, I think. But I don't know if this is the same error RandomGuy was talking about

It is

[andrewtuell1991]

Movie 9 has more continuity issues than Movie 5 (i.e. it has one). Movies 5 and 13 can be fit in the main timeline without any issues. 1 and 9 DO have issues.

I don't think that Movie 5 is completely free of errors, the biggest one I can think of is that Gohan has a Saiyan tail and has the bowl haircut. He would have had a different hairstyle since he returned from Namek, and also wouldn't have his tail at all.

Can you please tell me some of the errors Movie 9 has? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but it's been awhile since I watched Movie 9.

Another problem with Movie 5 fitting in the main timeline is why the hell are Goku are and co. camping when they're supposed to be training for the Androids? Seriously, I know Goku can be pretty lax at times, but come on!

As for the continuity problems Movie 9 poses, I can think of a few:

*Future Trunks coming back in time for a simple tournament and having his post-Rosat long hair instead of being short.

*Tenshinhan being there even though he said they probably wouldn't see each other again.

*Baby Goten not being present or Chichi even looking pregnant.

*Kaio and Goku still being in that place where Kaio attempted to build a new house in filler instead of being at some training ground.

*Gohan enjoying fighting in a tournament without being forced by someone.

*Goku being a decent parent.

Okay that last one's a joke, but I think you get the point. I really like that chart in your first post with a few exceptions. For Lord Slug, Goku would've needed to meet Freeza for Kaio's reference to him make sense. Bojack Unbound can only work if the Cell Game preceded it.

For Dead Zone, I have an interesting suggestion: Goku doesn't let go of Raditz's tail. That way, it would sense for Kuririn, Roshi, and Bulma to already know Gohan and Goku and the others would still be surprised by Gohan's power

[RandomGuy96]

Another problem with Movie 5 fitting in the main timeline is why the hell are Goku are and co. camping when they're supposed to be training for the Androids? Seriously, I know Goku can be pretty lax at times, but come on!

Goku WAS training at the beginning of the movie, and Roshi confirms he's been doing so for some time, but everyone needs a break. It was 3 years.

[DBZAOTA482]

Movie 9 has more continuity issues than Movie 5 (i.e. it has one). Movies 5 and 13 can be fit in the main timeline without any issues. 1 and 9 DO have issues.

I don't think that Movie 5 is completely free of errors, the biggest one I can think of is that Gohan has a Saiyan tail and has the bowl haircut. He would have had a different hairstyle since he returned from Namek, and also wouldn't have his tail at all.

Can you please tell me some of the errors Movie 9 has? I can't really think of any off the top of my head, but it's been awhile since I watched Movie 9.

*Tenshinhan being there even though he said they probably wouldn't see each other again.

*Gohan enjoying fighting in a tournament without being forced by someone.

1. Probably.

2. Gohan doesn't have as much of an aversion to fighting as you think. He actually enjoys martial arts/sparring with his father and Piccolo, just doesn't like death fights.

I agree with everything else.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't see how the "so-and-so wasn't mentioned in the movie, so it can't fit" logic works. I mean, most of the movies take place over a few hours. It's not like Goku and co. would have spent every waking second talking about the androids and Trunks during those three years. That would just be depressing.

Granted, there are plenty of other reasons that movies can't fit, but this one never really worked for me.

[Polyphase Avatron]

Didn't Cooler say something about Freeza being defeated by Goku as a Super Saiyan in movie 5?

[RandomGuy96]

Didn't Cooler say something about Freeza being defeated by Goku as a Super Saiyan in movie 5?

He doesn't have any way of knowing that. I don't even think he says Goku killed Freeza, just that he either defeated Freeza (which is is true) or that Freeza was killed by a Super Saiyan (which was also true).