If we assume the movies are the result of a divergence

[Kamiccolo9]

She certainly didn't look like it, but could just be character design awkwardness.

Toei excels at that. Toriyama as well, now that I think about it. I mean, does anyone think that Goku actually looked 15 in the Piccolo Daimao arc? And then there's Bra in GT...

Gotenks doesn't use SSJ3 for some reason.

Just because he doesn't use it doesn't mean he can't. He did exactly the same thing against Boo: he should know Boo is stronger than his base & SS forms, yet he uses them against him even though he gets his ass kicked, and he should sense that his power is greater than his. This is Gotenks we are talking about.

Or just assume that this is a gag scene, and that it would be a pain in the ass to animate all that hair for the spanking scene. Or something.

[garnetjester]

In Goku's case, Toriyama says in Jaco that saiyans have a long childhood, so there might be an explanation there.

[Dayspring]

Here's how I see everything:

Divergence 1:

-DB Movie 1 explains what the divergence is.

-DB movie 2 takes place after movie 1.

-DB movie 3 takes place after movie 2.

Divergence 2:

-DB 10th Anniversary Movie explains what the divergence is.

-DBZ movie 1 takes place many years after DB 10th Anniversary movie. (I'm ignoring the fact that it was stuffed into the anime continuity.)

-Because of movie 1, Goku is strong enough so that the battle against Radditz occurs a bit differently. The only significant change is that the Dragonballs are never mentioned, so Vegeta and Nappa don't drop what they're doing to come to Earth. Radditz claims they'll come avenge his death, so Goku is still sent to Kaio's and everybody still trains as per the manga. HOWEVER, the Saiyans only go to Earth because they know they can sell it to Freeza after conquering it. Because they don't leave ASAP, they don't show up (was it 2 months?) early as per the manga.

-DBZ movie 2 takes place in the interval between Goku returning to Earth in this divergent timeline and when the Saiyans arrive.

-Alternate version of the Vegeta and Nappa battle. Because everybody is much stronger here and because Goku is alive from the get-go, nobody who has already been revived by the DBs dies here.

-Movie 3 takes place after the battle with the Saiyans and when Tenshinhan and/or Yamacha and/or Yajirobe are revived by the Dragonballs.

-Movie 4 takes place after movie 3.

-Being as strong as he is, Goku is asked by Kaio to defeat Freeza. Very alternate version of the Namek saga.

-Garlic Jr Saga.

-Goku returns to Earth. No Freeza or anything like that. DBZ Movie 5 occurs shortly thereafter.

-DBZ Movie 6 takes place after movie 5.

-Alternate version of the android saga. Because everybody's so strong, they defeat the androids before Cell is awakened. Cell is later defeated.

-Movie 8 occurs when they're celebrating their victory.

-Alternate version of the Boo Saga. Because there was never a Cell Games, Goku never died and both he and Vegeta never trained as strongly. Dabura and Babidi are killed before Boo is revived, but Vegeta and Goku die in the process.

-Movie 10.

-Movie 11 occurs after movie 10.

-Movie 12 occurs after movie 11.

Divergence 3: Movie 9 explains what its divergence is. The only reason this doesn't fit in continuity is because the narrator of the series explains that Trunks waits until defeating his era's Cell before going back in time, whereas in the movie, he does so after defeating his era's androids.

Divergence 4: Movie 13 explains what its divergence is. The only reason it doesn't fit in continuity is because there's no way that could be future Trunks' sword, since future Tapion would never have been released from the magic box.

Divergence 5: Not so much a divergence as it is an actual different timeline. There are four DB timelines. The first is the one that Cell comes from. A few years prior, Trunks from this timeline went into the past, creating a second timeline. Cell kills Trunks and goes even further into the past than Trunks ever did, which creates a third timeline. The third timeline is the one where our Trunks comes from and the time he goes to is the manga timeline.

-Movie 7: The second timeline mentioned above. Because there's no Cell that awakens to fight Piccolo, Vegeta doesn't stick in the ROSAT until he achieves USSJ. He just trains until he's really strong. Goku does a similar method of training for the same reason. The androids are defeated, prompting the sub-basement's computer to retool #13, #14 and #15. The reason the events of movie 7 don't occur in the manga is because Cell being around leads to Krillin and Trunks destroying the sub-basement before this trio of androids are finished being reworked.

Divergence 6: Also not a divergence per se, since they fit in continuity perfectly.

-The Jump Festa special takes place after the Boo saga.

-Movie 14 takes place after the special; it is the "Five Years Ago" event that Bulma and Goku talk about.

[xmysticgohanx]

What about db's (before z) movies?

[Zephyr]

Doesn't work. If Gokū didn't linger in space, he wouldn't have learned how to teleport, which he does know in Movie 6 (but not 5? Or maybe he just didn't use it?).

I meant lingering past learning to teleport. Unless we assume it took him the entire time he was out in space to learn the technique.

[The Time Traveller]

Spoiler:

Doesn't Episode of Bardock happen after the TV special? And don't they say Gohan killed Cell in the Bojack movie?

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Doesn't Episode of Bardock happen after the TV special?

It's a timeline. The first couple of minutes take place after it, but the bulk of the special occurs with Bardock in the past...

[The Time Traveller]

Doesn't Episode of Bardock happen after the TV special?

It's a timeline. The first couple of minutes take place after it, but the bulk of the special occurs with Bardock in the past...

Right, I did not think of that...

[Hellspawn28]

What about db's (before z) movies?

They are a re-telling of the other events that happen in the show. So they can't fit anywhere.

[Darknat]

If I had to put all the movies plots in just one timeline I'll probably do it by changing placement of the movies and powerlevels of some of the characters involved.

For instance this could more or less work:

-Bardock Special
-Episode of Bardock
-Jaco (either ignoring Goku's age or it took 2 years to arrive to Earth so that it makes sense with the TV special. The amor was just the clothes he had in the spaceship that Gohan gave him at first)
-Hunt for the Dragon Balls
-(DB M2) Goku meets Krilin and start training for Kamesenning. One of his trainings is get the sleeping princess, movie happens more or less (without the Oozaru transformation).
-(DB M3) Mifan Tournament occurs during the training. Ten Shin Han and Tsuru Sennin appear but Goku doesn't meet them (this one requires lots of changes). My idea here is that Chaotzu stops being an emperor and starts studying with Tsuru Sennin after the movie.
-21 tenkaichi
-Red Ribbon arc up until Penguin Village
-(Dr Slump Crossover) Penguin Village is extended and adds some plots from the crossover in the second Anime of Dr. Slump (Murasaki is alive, and Goku becomes an Oozaru in Penguin Village).
-Second half of the RR arc + Uranai Baba arc.
-(DB public service Traffic) Goku goes to Bulma's birthday and after that he continues his training.
-(DB M1) During the Training Goku gets involved in one search for the DBs and Movie I happens (he goes solo, no Yamcha or Bulma here), he gets the 4 star dragon ball yet again after this.
-(DB 10th anniversary) Black who survived tries to reform the RR army and looks for the DBs yet again. Android 8 is enslaved and a new muscle tower is created (the movie even shows the old one in the background). Android 8 dies and gets ressurrected. Goku gets the 4 star DB again (instead of happening this 2 times, it could happen 1 and Goku starts the second search and then gets involved again with the RR army).
-22 tenkaichi (first half).
-(DB Public Service Fire) Goku works at Papaya as a firefighter and saves Bulma. This could work if we take in consideration the anime 22 tenkaichi budokai happens in more than 1 day.
-22 Tenkaichi (second half).
-Piccolo Daimao arc
-23 Tenkaichi

-(DBZ M1) More or less happens the same but Krilin doens't met Gohan.
-Saiyan Saga
-Namek and Freeza saga
-Garlik Jr saga.
-(Trunks Special)
-Trunks gives medicine to Goku.
-3 year gap:
-(DBZ M2)Year 1 Just making Dr. Willow stronger and fights a SS Goku or Goku can't use SS for some reason (maybe the cold).
-(DBZ M3) Year 2 Goku Can't use SS because the Tree drains his ki and can't transform. Turles should also be stronger, reason being that he has eaten the fruit several times before.
-(DBZ M4) Year 3 Goku fights Slug, same reasoning, either the cold makes it impossible for Goku to transform into SS, or he does transform. Slug is more or less as strong as freeza.
-(DBZ M5) Year 3 No changes needed.
-Android arc
-Cell saga arc up until he announces the cell games
-During the 10 day period:
-(DBZ Terevikko) They just go thorugh the ages with the time machine. They don't confront Cell in the end.
-(DBZ M7) The new Androids appear, and the movie happens more or less the same but with Gohan as a SS.
-(DBZ M6) Cooler returns and they all go to Namek. Gohan is a SS and Trunks is training in the RoSaT.
-(DBZ M8) Brolly appears, no changes needed.
-(DBZ Plan to Erradicate the SS) This one is an amalgamation of the original OVAs, the Playdia game and the new version (Trunks hair should be longer here).
-Cell Games
-Trunks Defeats the androids and Cell on his timeline.
-(DBZ M9) Boojack appears, no changes needed. This happens before the otherworld tournament because Goku is living with Kaio on that rock in the Serpent Road.
-Otherworld tournament
-Great Saiyaman and training for the 25 tenkaichi.
-(DBZ M10) During the training Brolly returns. If we just cut the DBs and Videl seeing Gohan turn SS this could work.
-25 Tournament, Babidi's spaceship and Majin Buu's ressurrection.
-(DBZ M12) Goku returns to the otherworld and has to fight Janemba. After the fight he notices Gohan is on Kaioshins planet. Gohan is not involved in the movie, only Gotenks and Mr. Satan fight on Earth.
-Buu Saga
-(DBZ M11) 18 tries to get the money Satan ows her, Goten and Trunks fight Brolly. Goku spends some time training at Kaios (Like in Battle of Gods) and is informed that Brolly is causing problems in hell.
-(DBZ M13) Happens without changes.
-(DBZ Jump Special) No changes.
-(DBZ M14) No changes.
-End of Z
-Neko Majin and Neko Majin Z (Just the parts that make some sense, so the part with Vegeta needs some changes).
-DBGT
-DBGT Special
-DB Heroes Victory Mission




We could also add some of the Heroes what ifs:

Trunks SS3 could work if he fights Buu on his timeline. Maybe even Gohan SS3 could happen there (he comes back for 1 day like Goku did).

Brolly SS3 Could happen after Bio Brolly when Goku fights him in the otherworld.

Baby Janemba could work for super 17 arc. Maybe he is defeated by GT Gotenks as a SS3.

Super 17 + Android 16 and super 17 + Cell could work to extend the saga a bit. He could fight a SS3 Vegeta and could happen before Goku shows up. Somehow he gets reversed back to his Super 17 form after that.

SS2 Bardock could just happen sometime after he got his ss1 transformation.

GT Trunks as SS3 doesn't make much sense to me. He and future trunks (the one before the time travel) seems to have the transformations just because Future trunks does.

Gogeta SS3 and Vegetto SS3 could only happen during Janemba and Buu's fights, but unless those fights are extended to include those, they don't seem as needed transformations. Gogeta SS3 could work as a way to defeat Brolly SS3 too.

[Low Tone G]

My timeline and possible divergences:

- Episode of Bardock manga events
- Episode of Bardock anime
- Bardock TV Special with no changes
- Bardock TV Special with some changes what ties in with Episode of Bardock manga (Bardock not given the gift of seeing the future, and Freeza's henchmen attacked Planet Vegeta)
- Beerus fell asleep
- Jaco manga's earlier events
- Jaco manga's later events
- The DB anime
- DBZ movie 1, Gohan was unknown for Krillin
- DBZ Movie 2
- Raditz appears
- Vegeta and Nappa appear
- DBZ Movie 3, Goku doesn't die, but also receives the training of King Kai
- Namek and Freeza Saga, DBZ movie 4: Goku manage to kill Freeza with the Universal Spirit Bomb, and this issue was repeated in the movie.
- Trunks arrives from future
- DBZ Movie 5: Gohan's tail grew back due to intense training with Goku and Piccolo before tha movie, other changes not needed
- DBZ Movie 6: Goku was healed very early, so he defeats Andrtoid 19 and 20, so he can go the Namek to face Metal Cooler
- Android saga
- DBZ Movie 7: The Z fighters didn't face Android 17 and 18, because they can only be activated with the remote control of Dr. Gero, but face Super Android 13 instead, because Android 15, 14 and 13 were controlled, therefore activated by the computer. And when Goku manages to defeat Super Android 13 and computer was broken so it couldn't continue the Cell project, and android 18 and 17 never are activated.
- Cell saga
- DBZ movie 8: Cell appears from the future, but he was killed or by Kamiccolo(this is most likely), or by ASSJ Vegeta. So Goku and Gohan came out earlier from ROSAT, and Gohan remained below Goku in strenght. So they can face Broly on New Planet Vegeta.
- DBZ Movie 9: It doesn't need change. This is the day when Future Trunks goes back to his timeline, but before his hair was cut by his mother, in other words the events of the movie were at morning. The funeral of Goku was afternoon, and Trunks departure right after that.
- The 7 years time skip.
- DBZ Movie 10: Gohan, Goten and Videl train, the events of the movie occurs within 1-2 days. No changes needed, Goku was dead.
- The Majin Buu saga eariler stages with Fat Buu.
- DBZ Movie 11: No changes needed it's before Goten and Trunks known about Babidi.
- Movie 12: Goku goes back the other world, Vegeta was dead because he failed against Fat Buu. But lot of changes have been made. Gohan didn't attack Fat Buu's cocoon, so he was unharmed and possibly joined everyone ant Kami's Look-out when Goku taught the fusion to the kids. So Gohan wasn't Mystic in the movie, but the kids knew the fusion.
- Super Buu and Kid Buu saga
- Movie 13: No changes needed, the movie was in the time skip after the death of Kid Buu, but before Mr. Buu's was made to be forgotten by people. The wish could be done because in that time they could have 3 wishes, and first was when Goku wished for resurrection of the people killed by Vegeta, the second was to realise Tapion from the musix box, and third was to make people to forget about Mr. Buu.
- JUMP Super Anime Tour Special, no changes, it fits perfectly.
- DBZ Movie 14, BoG: no changes. Bulma's age most likely was a lie.

[xmysticgohanx]

When Toriyama said the movies take place in alternate dimensions can that also mean alternate timelines like Trunks's?

[Eternal Super Saiyan]

... what would the divergence event(s) be?

For example it occurs to me that that the Cooler movie could well be a 'what if the spirit bomb really had worked on Freeza'.
That then means no goku super saiyan, no goku out in space,no Freeza surviving, and even potentially reason for goku to mistake cooler as Freeza - explaining many of the 'plot holes' it had.

Another I've heard before is that super 13/broly possibly occurs if vegeta actually beat second form cell, explaining why goku and gohan aren't in their mastered ssj forms and why everyone seems to be relaxing.

So, if we pretend/assume this is indeed the case, and that all movies are the result of a divergence in the timeline, what are your theories on what these events/changes would be?

I always thought Super Android 13 took place before the Android saga even happened. Gohan looks 10 years old, and hasn't had a hair cut. Vegeta and Trunks never entered the Hyperbolic Time Chamber; their Ascended SSJ forms don't exist. They are normal Super Saiyans, rather "thin" I might add.

But seemingly Piccolo is quite strong in that movie? I'm not understanding that part very well.

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I can't remember if Goku can sense from outside the HTC or if anyone outside the HTC can communicate with Goku. If this isn't the case then Cell being beaten wouldn't have any affect on Gohan and Goku leaving early.

[xmysticgohanx]

Someone could've went in and told them.

[jjgp1112]

I've always figured Movie 7 took place in the timeline that the Trunks from Cell's timeline traveled to.

[Low Tone G]

I've always figured Movie 7 took place in the timeline that the Trunks from Cell's timeline traveled to.

I think the movie perfectly can fit in the normal timeline. The changes could be that Goku took the medicine from Future Trunks enough early as when Android 19, and Dr. Gero (Android 20) began their rampage in the city, Goku and Vegeta could beat the two cyborgs. So Androids 17, 18, and 16 were not activated. But other androids could be activated by the super computer's "own decision". The timeline from Imperct Cell came from isn't this because its events took place in the same time like in the normal timeline did. The time travel makes new timelines..... Maybe later on the the laboratory was destroyed. In the Imperfect Cell's time line, killed Trunks, but there wasn't Goku, nor Vegeta, nor other villains, so it doesn't fit.

[jjgp1112]

I've always figured Movie 7 took place in the timeline that the Trunks from Cell's timeline traveled to.

I think the movie perfectly can fit in the normal timeline. The changes could be that Goku took the medicine from Future Trunks enough early as when Android 19, and Dr. Gero (Android 20) began their rampage in the city, Goku and Vegeta could beat the two cyborgs. So Androids 17, 18, and 16 were not activated. But other androids could be activated by the super computer's "own decision". The timeline from Imperct Cell came from isn't this because its events took place in the same time like in the normal timeline did. The time travel makes new timelines..... Maybe later on the the laboratory was destroyed. In the Imperfect Cell's time line, killed Trunks, but there wasn't Goku, nor Vegeta, nor other villains, so it doesn't fit.

I really don't see any point in the normal timeline could've fit. Don't forget, they explicitly state that Goku never took the medicine at any point in the training, and obviously after Androids 19 and 20 arrive it can't fit. And it couldn't happen before 19 and 20, because Trunks never traveled back at any point between his initial arrival and that May 10 date.

My theory with the timelines is this:

Timeline 1) The original timeline. Androids kill everyone, yadda yadda yadda, Trunks eventually destroys the Androids and gets killed by Cell.
Timeline 2) The timeline that T1 Trunks travels back to where he kills Freeza and warns everyone about the Androids. He returns to help 3 years later and either gets stronger or figures out a way to destroy the Androids, and then goes back to his own timeline. This is where Movie 7 would take place. After 17, 18, 19, and 20 are taken care of, the other three are activated by the super computer. Presumably, they end up having to fight Cell 20+ years later.
Timeline 3) Main series.The timeline created by Cell traveling back to 3 year before Trunks' arrival (or however long it was). My theory here is that T1 Trunks' original time travel created two interwoven timelines that can't exist without each other, and Cell traveling back to the past of Timeline 2 caused a paradox that created another future timeline since the future of timeline 3 was Trunks traveling to it. The events as we know in the series unfold.
Timeline 4) The future where the Trunks that traveled to Timeline 3 came from. The events are identical to Timeline 1 except Trunks kills Cell and lives happily ever after.

[Hellspawn28]

Throwing Heroes into the mix will make your brain hurt. I view Heroes taking place in it's own AU where everything exist in one timeline and the public knows about the adventures of Goku and the others.

[Low Tone G]

I really don't see any point in the normal timeline could've fit. Don't forget, they explicitly state that Goku never took the medicine at any point in the training, and obviously after Androids 19 and 20 arrive it can't fit. And it couldn't happen before 19 and 20, because Trunks never traveled back at any point between his initial arrival and that May 10 date.

My theory with the timelines is this:

Timeline 1) The original timeline. Androids kill everyone, yadda yadda yadda, Trunks eventually destroys the Androids and gets killed by Cell.
Timeline 2) The timeline that T1 Trunks travels back to where he kills Freeza and warns everyone about the Androids. He returns to help 3 years later and either gets stronger or figures out a way to destroy the Androids, and then goes back to his own timeline. This is where Movie 7 would take place. After 17, 18, 19, and 20 are taken care of, the other three are activated by the super computer. Presumably, they end up having to fight Cell 20+ years later.
Timeline 3) Main series.The timeline created by Cell traveling back to 3 year before Trunks' arrival (or however long it was). My theory here is that T1 Trunks' original time travel created two interwoven timelines that can't exist without each other, and Cell traveling back to the past of Timeline 2 caused a paradox that created another future timeline since the future of timeline 3 was Trunks traveling to it. The events as we know in the series unfold.
Timeline 4) The future where the Trunks that traveled to Timeline 3 came from. The events are identical to Timeline 1 except Trunks kills Cell and lives happily ever after.

I'm not saying it fits, but with a divergence it could. I see the Movie 7 like Goku taking the medicine eariler in the 3 years timeskip, so his sick is gone away earlier, this could be the change/divergence. So in that case Goku and Vegeta, and Future Trunks and probably Co. could have faced Androids 17 and 18, and killed them somehow with the help of healed Goku. We could see at begining of the movie that #17 and 18, and #17 killed Dr. Gero. So there are two possibilites. They somehow defeat the two androids or they could create a remote control to deactivate them, all that before the movie. So in that case this is an alternate version of normal timeline, where they could stop 17 and 18, and had the fight against the three androids.

I have my theory about the timeline from Cell comes and Trunks was killed by him. Let that be called Timeline 1. In that timeline Goku died of the hearth virus, Vegeta and the Z figherts were killed by C17 and 18, and Trunks attempted to use the time machine for the first time, and Cell was awaken and killed him, Cell could not find the androids because he could not sense them. So the time machine was adjusted in the same way like in the the Timeline 2, where Trunks did not met Cell, and managed to do his travel to the past. So in that case Future Cell and Future Trunks landed in exactly the same moment in the normal timeline, in Timeline 3. I think T2 Future Trunks adjusted his machine arrive to a different place in the Normal Timeline, so Cell and Future Trunks didn't meet each other. And there is a Timeline 4, what is the version of the Normal Timeline what leads to the events of Movie 7, where Goku is healed, and successfully defeat the Androids 17 and 18(maybe also with the Spirit Bomb), and face other androids like we saw in the movie.