Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Any general discussion regarding fan-created works of the Dragon Ball franchise, including AMVs, fan-art, fan-fiction, etc.
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Skar
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Skar » Thu Apr 10, 2014 2:54 am

RandomGuy96 wrote:
I think the only things they have in common is that they were both strong aliens. Vegeta was one of the last members of Goku's race and turned out to be just an employee of the next villain. Just because they were similar doesn't really give Toei the excuse to ignore the fact that Freeza was declared strongest in the universe. It wasn't even a point to contradicting that idea since all the BS saga villains were defeated by Goku with ease. They could have all been weaker than Freeza and it would have been the same result.
Freeza and Vegeta are the same person. They're both alien princes, they both commit genocide for profit, they both want immortality, they're both crazy durable, they're both arrogant as hell, they're both the strongest in the universe pre-retcon, they're both terrible bosses, they both slaughter villages of Nameks for no real reason, they're both spoiled brats, they both try to blow up the planet when they get pissy, they both throw a tantrum when outclassed, et cetera.

You mean like how Toriyama ignored that he already declared Vegeta the strongest in the universe when he pulled Freeza out of his ass?
I guess Vegeta was originally intended to be the strongest but then it was retconned to be Frieza and that Vegeta ended up the same way since he was raised by him. The idea of Frieza remaining the strongest alien villain held true for the rest of the series considering the only villains stronger than him were either higher gods or artificially created. The goal of Toriyama's retcon was use to one more strong alien overlord before moving on to another idea. Toei didn't have any reasoning for it since the villains they made stronger than Frieza were just a bump in the road in their search for the BS balls not an actual threats. I think if you're borrowing an author's finished story then at the very least respect his work and try not to contradict anything if you don't need to. I never liked any of the canon changes made in DBM since most of them could have been avoided without any impact on the story.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Thu Apr 10, 2014 10:14 am

I really like this Buu.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheGmGoken » Thu Apr 10, 2014 3:22 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:I really like this Buu.
Reminds me of Funimation's Bootenks. I enjoy his personality

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:51 pm

Image

Tenshitforbrains still doesn't see how pointless this is, apparently. Why didn't he forfeit again?

I'm REALLY looking forward to Buu's 'fight' with Gotenks if he acts similar to the way he does here.
I guess Vegeta was originally intended to be the strongest but then it was retconned to be Freeza and that Vegeta ended up the same way since he was raised by him. The idea of Freeza remaining the strongest alien villain held true for the rest of the series considering the only villains stronger than him were either higher gods or artificially created
So? If Toriyama could retcon Vegeta being the strongest with no explanation, why is it suddenly sacrilege when another work retcons Freeza being the strongest with a thin explanation?

Dabra wasn't a god, by the way. Or at least we're never told that he is.
. I never liked any of the canon changes made in DBM since most of them could have been avoided without any impact on the story.
I agree with that, at least. Making King Vegeta weaker than Bardock, changing how Bardock obtained his powers, making Cold stronger than Freeza, sloppily inserting the Broly movies (which don't fit) into the main timeline, etc. None of these contradictions are necessary.

Also, looking at the tournament chart, I just noticed that Goku vs Uub, Vegeta vs Cell, Buu vs XXI, and Bra vs Gast will all almost certainly happen.
Last edited by RandomGuy96 on Fri Apr 11, 2014 5:07 pm, edited 5 times in total.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Marco Polo » Fri Apr 11, 2014 4:53 pm

Is he going to try a double Shin Kikoho or something? :o

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by FoolsGil » Fri Apr 11, 2014 7:56 pm

Human Universe is so awesome. If only the main universe Humans were this great.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Saiga » Fri Apr 11, 2014 9:44 pm

...what the hell is up with the dude with the sign?
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:10 pm

He's there to tell us Buu is lying, of course.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Saiga » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:28 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:He's there to tell us Buu is lying, of course.
That much I got, but I don't understand his shirt at all. And now that I think about it, he looks extremely similar to the avatar of a commenter on the DBM site. Can't remember the name or anything, though.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:29 pm

Yeah, I don't get the shirt at all. Maybe the commenter is this chapter's artist?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Insertclevername » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:30 pm

"No place like!!1"

What?
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by goku the krump dancer » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:44 pm

If Boo doesnt KO or Absorb Ten.. Then that whole moon meteor thing is going to be destroyed.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Skar » Fri Apr 11, 2014 10:46 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:So? If Toriyama could retcon Vegeta being the strongest with no explanation, why is it suddenly sacrilege when another work retcons Freeza being the strongest with a thin explanation?
I was going with what he said in this Daizenshuu 2 interview:

The next to appear where the Artificial Humans and Cell.
Since they had become the strongest in even the universe, they next had to surpass time. So with that I did time-travel stuff, but it was really rough. Time paradox, is it? I quickly got bogged down.

They surpassed Frieza and became the strongest in the universe then he moved on to something else not another alien. He didn't mention if he originally planned for Vegeta to be the strongest so I don't know if he actually retconned it. In the Saiyan saga Vegeta referred to himself as the strongest in the universe but I always considered that being the same as Burter calling himself the fastest in the universe when it wasn't necessarily true.

What I'm trying to explain is that there's a difference between the author retconning an idea while the story is still in progress vs someone else retconning an idea when the story is over and there's no need for it. I understand if the author had an incredible idea that can't work unless they changed canon but I've honestly never seen a fanfic that changes something established in the manga and it had a positive impact on their story. I think it takes more talent and results in a better storyline if the author can come up with a idea that's compatible with the manga than take the easy way out and pretend something didn't happen or change something in canon just to force their idea.

About Dabura I don't know if it was directly stated but I believe he was a Makaioshin. At least that's what I understood from the "Demon Guide" on the main site. In the manga he was said to be the King of Demons and strongest in the Demon Realm. Demon Realm was translated to "makai". He might not be considered a god but at least a deity.
I agree with that, at least. Making King Vegeta weaker than Bardock, changing how Bardock obtained his powers, making Cold stronger than Freeza, sloppily inserting the Broly movies (which don't fit) into the main timeline, etc. None of these contradictions are necessary.
I agree with most of these. Some of the changes in DBM I think could have been avoided:
1. Hanasia and the two other elites being stronger than King Vegeta. I don't think any Saiyan would respect King Vegeta as their leader if he wasn't the strongest. These other three Saiyans could have been included had a power level of 4000-8000 without contradicting the idea of King Vegeta being the strongest Saiyan at the time. I don't think it was necessary for Bardock's vision to only happen in one universe. It could have happened in all of them but what differentiates U3 is that he decided to warn the king as soon as he found out.

2. Grand Kaioshin blowing his brain before being absorbed. An explanation like "the goodness in his heart or his pure Kaioshin magic was able to partially tame Buu's wild nature" or something like that may have sounded better. Kid Buu wasn't very smart to begin with so I would argue that Fat Buu was equally stupid just less unpredictable and wild.

3. King Cold being that much stronger than Frieza. I understand the fan theory of King Cold being in his second form but his 4th form possibility surpassing #17 seems a little high. I could see him deciding to train after learning about Kooler's fifth form but I would have had equal to Goku on Namek or slightly stronger. That way he could defeat a weak SSJ without having to be that many times stronger than his sons.

4. Some of the movie characters. I don't mind Kooler since his first movie isn't difficult to fit into the timeline. I'm not a fan of Broly but I do understand why Salagir included him. Better to use a pre-existing overpowered mutated Saiyan than make up your own I guess. I didn't understand the reason for rewriting Wrath of the Dragon. If he felt the movie couldn't fit on its own then it may have been better to leave out Tapion and Hirudegarn than change their movie. I really doubt Tapion will contribute anything to the story than to just becoming friends with Raichi.

5. The Future Gohan special. When Goku and Majin Vegeta were fighting I'm pretty sure only Goku's energy was going to Buu's egg. Having Dabura drain his own energy didn't contribute to their goal. Besides if there's a strong intruder running around it may have been wiser to punish Dabura after the intruder has been dealt with. It would have made more sense if Babidi's ship landed, didn't sense any strong power levels, and decided to leave.

All of this is just nitpicking at this point since Salagir isn't going to go back and change anything. I just hope that in future chapters unnecessary changes are avoided.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Puto » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:10 pm

The shirt is a geeky thing. ::1 is an ipv6 address that always points to your own PC, so it's basically a very nerdy way of saying 'There's no place like home'.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by RandomGuy96 » Fri Apr 11, 2014 11:14 pm


They surpassed Freeza and became the strongest in the universe then he moved on to something else not another alien. He didn't mention if he originally planned for Vegeta to be the strongest so I don't know if he actually retconned it. In the Saiyan saga Vegeta referred to himself as the strongest in the universe but I always considered that being the same as Burter calling himself the fastest in the universe when it wasn't necessarily true.
He didn't refer to himself as the strongest, he thought it.

About Dabura I don't know if it was directly stated but I believe he was a Makaioshin. At least that's what I understood from the "Demon Guide" on the main site. In the manga he was said to be the King of Demons and strongest in the Demon Realm. Demon Realm was translated to "makai". He might not be considered a god but at least a deity.
No, he's never stated or implied anywhere to be a Makaioshin. He's probably just a mortal who happens to be stronger than the gods, like Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta.

I agree with most of these. Some of the changes in DBM I think could have been avoided:
1. Hanasia and the two other elites being stronger than King Vegeta. I don't think any Saiyan would respect King Vegeta as their leader if he wasn't the strongest. These other three Saiyans could have been included had a power level of 4000-8000 without contradicting the idea of King Vegeta being the strongest Saiyan at the time. I don't think it was necessary for Bardock's vision to only happen in one universe. It could have happened in all of them but what differentiates U3 is that he decided to warn the king as soon as he found out.
Agreed.
2. Grand Kaioshin blowing his brain before being absorbed. An explanation like "the goodness in his heart or his pure Kaioshin magic was able to partially tame Buu's wild nature" or something like that may have sounded better. Kid Buu wasn't very smart to begin with so I would argue that Fat Buu was equally stupid just less unpredictable and wild.
You'll notice that Fat Buu actually IS a lot smarter than Pure Buu, who can't even form sentences. It always seemed much more likely that combining a mindless feral monster and a wise god just resulted in a dimwitted child-like being. Then ironing out the imperfections resulted in an intelligent and cunning schemer.

3. King Cold being that much stronger than Freeza. I understand the fan theory of King Cold being in his second form but his 4th form possibility surpassing #17 seems a little high. I could see him deciding to train after learning about Kooler's fifth form but I would have had equal to Goku on Namek or slightly stronger. That way he could defeat a weak SSJ without having to be that many times stronger than his sons.
Oooooor he could just stick with his canon level, which is "weaker than Freeza, but probably not by a lot". He doesn't need to be that strong to beat Bardock and Videl- them being strong enough to put up any kind of fight against him in any form, even factoring in KK (x20) and SS (x50), would still make them unimaginably stronger than their main counterparts. What's the problem here?

4. Some of the movie characters. I don't mind Kooler since his first movie isn't difficult to fit into the timeline. I'm not a fan of Broly but I do understand why Salagir included him. Better to use a pre-existing overpowered mutated Saiyan than make up your own I guess. I didn't understand the reason for rewriting Wrath of the Dragon. If he felt the movie couldn't fit on its own then it may have been better to leave out Tapion and Hirudegarn than change their movie. I really doubt Tapion will contribute anything to the story than to just becoming friends with Raichi.
Cooler fits fine, so I don't mind him. Same with Bojack, Hildegarn, and Bardock. Which just makes it baffling that he felt the need to change 3/4 of them. Broly bothers me, because his movies just cannot have happened without Salagir applying fanfiction logic to them and changing them to cram them into the manga's timeline.

I'd just take the same stance on Broly that I do on every other movie character who can't fit: the character does exist in-universe, but his movie didn't happen. Perhaps in U20, for want of a nail, Broly survived something that killed him early and faaaar away from the protagonists in all or most of the other universes?
5. The Future Gohan special. When Goku and Majin Vegeta were fighting I'm pretty sure only Goku's energy was going to Buu's egg. Having Dabura drain his own energy didn't contribute to their goal. Besides if there's a strong intruder running around it may have been wiser to punish Dabura after the intruder has been dealt with. It would have made more sense if Babidi's ship landed, didn't sense any strong power levels, and decided to leave.
That special was the dumbest and worst chapter in the whole fanmanga. Not only because of Babidi acting in a way that makes no sense just to give Gohan a chance, but because it's explicitly stated in the manga that they can only use GOOD energy to revive Buu. Dabra is not a good being, he's evil.

In short, Dabra shouldn't have been able to be drained, and he should have used his Perfect Cell level powers to crush everyone. Assuming they made contact with him, as this special shows, rather than him and the gang just grabbing the ball and leaving.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Skar » Sat Apr 12, 2014 11:38 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:No, he's never stated or implied anywhere to be a Makaioshin. He's probably just a mortal who happens to be stronger than the gods, like Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta.
The word "makaio" was translated to "Demon Realm Kings" which is what Dabura was referred to in the manga. I don't think he was ever referred to as anything else.
You'll notice that Fat Buu actually IS a lot smarter than Pure Buu, who can't even form sentences. It always seemed much more likely that combining a mindless feral monster and a wise god just resulted in a dimwitted child-like being. Then ironing out the imperfections resulted in an intelligent and cunning schemer.
Yeah that's a good point.
Oooooor he could just stick with his canon level, which is "weaker than Freeza, but probably not by a lot". He doesn't need to be that strong to beat Bardock and Videl- them being strong enough to put up any kind of fight against him in any form, even factoring in KK (x20) and SS (x50), would still make them unimaginably stronger than their main counterparts. What's the problem here?
True Bardock didn't seem to be that strong of a SSJ so Kold doesn't necessarily need to be stronger than Frieza to defeat him.
Cooler fits fine, so I don't mind him. Same with Bojack, Hildegarn, and Bardock. Which just makes it baffling that he felt the need to change 3/4 of them. Broly bothers me, because his movies just cannot have happened without Salagir applying fanfiction logic to them and changing them to cram them into the manga's timeline.
Well Bardock was in a manga panel so the character is at least canon. Raichi's OVA was written so that it didn't happen in U18 and some of the others but the character had an interesting backstory. Wrath of the Dragon was rewritten in the novelization I believe to where Hirudegarn only had one form and some other changes. I could understand why he rewrote the Broly's movies to make them fit a little more. If he didn't fight Vegetto in the first match then Broly probably wouldn't have been included at all.
In short, Dabra shouldn't have been able to be drained, and he should have used his Perfect Cell level powers to crush everyone. Assuming they made contact with him, as this special shows, rather than him and the gang just grabbing the ball and leaving.
I'm sure Babidi wasn't encountered in every universe. In U8 I doubt Frieza and his family ever ran into him or if anyone in U3 met him. It would've been easier to believe that Future Gohan never encountered Babidi than him somehow defeating Dabura. At least the other specials show how the strongest in those particular universes survived to the end. In a tournament with this many character there probably isn't a need for a special focusing on Future Gohan who's dead in all the universes he's in.

I just wanted to point out some of the things I didn't agree with in DBM. A lot of these seem to be personal preference since they didn't have much of an impact on the story. They're not as bad as some fan fic changes I've seen like Piccolo becoming a Dragon Clan Namek after fusing with Kami or pretending the Dragonballs were never destroyed when Kid Buu blew up the planet. I still think DBM is the most creative and unique DBZ sequel I've seen. Many other sequels I've read are so similar that I get mixed up with which one I'm reading. I've lost count how many times I've seen Goku and Vegeta reach SSJ5 or some alternate version of SSJ4 against a villain that's probably a lot stronger than they should have been. Then that villain will be followed by another super strong villain who is likely a slight variation of a previous villain. Kid Buu was biggest threat the universe had ever seen for over 5 million years yet all these villains stronger than him just happened to appear shortly after his death in quick succession.

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by TheGmGoken » Sun Apr 13, 2014 12:30 am

I wonder who does the Korean translation for DBMV?

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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Kamiccolo9 » Sun Apr 13, 2014 2:36 am

Skar wrote: He might not be considered a god but at least a deity.
Nitpicking, but Dabura can't be a god without being a deity. They are the same thing. So, if you consider him to be a deity, then he is, by default, a god as well.
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Fionordequester » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:53 am

You mean one can't simply be a demi-god while still being a deity as well?
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Re: Fanmanga - DB Multiverse

Post by Marco Polo » Sun Apr 13, 2014 10:58 am

'God' and 'deity' are synonyms. You guys are splitting hairs over English words in a discussion about Japanese fiction.

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