Power level of side characters

[ZombieVito]

These characters aren't fighters but they still displayed Ki abilities (most of them), what power level will you give them?

From the top of my head:

Dende (initially and potential unlock):
Moori:
Elder Kai:
South Kaio:

[sekzee]

Dende (Pre): <100
Dende (Post): >1,000
Moori: >1,500
South Kaio: ~2,000-3,500

[RandomGuy96]

Dende: 4
Weaker than Mr. Satan. Goku would rather fuse with Satan than Dende, because "Dende's not a warrior".

Elder Kaioshin: 16,000,000
Somewhat arbitrary (I just made him 100 times weaker than the new East Kaioshin) but it's still below base Goku, which is all that matters. Plus, even in his weakened state, I feel weird listing a god like him below, say, the Ginyus.

South Kaio: 3,200
About as strong as North Kaio, who was listed as being thirty five hundred in Weekly Jump.

Moori: 5,000
I just choose to use that M3 pamphlet number as a novelty. It doesn't contradict anything, so why not.

[B]

Dende: 4
Weaker than Mr. Satan. Goku would rather fuse with Satan than Dende, because "Dende's not a warrior".

I'm pretty sure Mr. Satan has never been given a battle power, but he won a few legitimate tournaments. You wouldn't give him at least a 10? And then with that in mind, Dende at least a 5?

Dende is God and apart of the Namekian Dragon Clan; I would expect him to have some basic concept of ki control, and thusly a double-digit battle power.

[RandomGuy96]

Dende: 4
Weaker than Mr. Satan. Goku would rather fuse with Satan than Dende, because "Dende's not a warrior".

I'm pretty sure Mr. Satan has never been given a battle power, but he won a few legitimate tournaments. You wouldn't give him at least a 10? And then with that in mind, Dende at least a 5?

Dende is God and apart of the Namekian Dragon Clan; I would expect him to have some basic concept of ki control, and thusly a double-digit battle power.

I don't think he is stronger than a normal human in terms of ki. Just physically. He is clearly nowhere near 10, in any case, since he can be killed with a single pistol bullet and Toriyama said he was weaker than Bob Sapp.

[Pantalones]

Dende being "ordinary human" level just seems wrong. Sure, he's not a fighter, but he has some pretty significant ki-related abilities (he can fly, he can heal people massively more powerful than himself without running out of ki, etc.)... and didn't he end up having his potential unlocked by the great elder at some point?

I can't see him being anywhere near the millions, and even thousands seems like too much unless he's in the very low (like Raditz/Saibaimen-esque) single-thousands range... but he should at least be in the hundreds after he gets his potential unlocked and once he grows up. He's Namekian after all, not an average human like Bulma or something with no ki-related abilities whatsoever--just because he doesn't actually know how to fight doesn't mean he's pitifully weak, just that he never learned how to fight and probably isn't nearly as strong as he could be if he trained.

South Kaio being around the same range of North Kaio seems about right to me, though. Moori being 5000 or so also works for me, though anywhere in the single-digit thousands could make sense given the levels we know of for other normal Namekians. Hard to really think of a set number for the old Kaioshin, but "probably a good bit weaker than any of the most recent Kaioshin generation" seems likely. He's a guy with a millions-long lifespan who's only got a couple thousands left in him, after all, so he's probably not in peak condition (and wouldn't have been by this point even if he hadn't accidentally fused with an old witch before.)

[RandomGuy96]

Dende being "ordinary human" level just seems wrong. Sure, he's not a fighter, but he has some pretty significant ki-related abilities (he can fly, he can heal people massively more powerful than himself without running out of ki, etc.)... and didn't he end up having his potential unlocked by the great elder at some point?

Yep. But he never actually displayed a single ki feat, he just seems to have more knowledge of it than the average human, and Goku would rather fuse with Mr. Satan than him, because Dende's not a fighter, heavily implying he's just weak.

He's a guy with a millions-long lifespan who's only got a couple thousands left in him, after all, so he's probably not in peak condition (and wouldn't have been by this point even if he hadn't accidentally fused with an old witch before.)

I credit his weakness almost entirely to fusing with the witch. Even East Kaioshin, who is young and pitifully weak by Kaioshin standards, was waaaaay stronger than Old Kaioshin, who was plainly shown to be weaker than base Goku.

[Kamiccolo9]

Dende being "ordinary human" level just seems wrong. Sure, he's not a fighter, but he has some pretty significant ki-related abilities (he can fly, he can heal people massively more powerful than himself without running out of ki, etc.)... and didn't he end up having his potential unlocked by the great elder at some point?

Yep. But he never actually displayed a single ki feat, he just seems to have more knowledge of it than the average human, and Goku would rather fuse with Mr. Satan than him, because Dende's not a fighter, heavily implying he's just weak.

There were also the Dragon Balls to consider, though. I don't think Dende is any stronger that a similarly built Earthling, at least physically, but I'm pretty sure that Goku's reluctance to fuse with him wasn't due entirely to his lack of experience as a fighter.

Edit: Major typo there. Fixed now.

[Kaboom]

I simply CAN'T accept or imagine the idea of Dende having a power level only in the single digits, if only because of that unlock from the Grand Elder. Humans are naturally much weaker than the average Namekians, but look how much that ritual still did for Kuririn. Dende's youth and tiny body at the time may have resulted in less power for him than otherwise, but only so much. Goku saying "not a fighter" doesn't necessarily have to mean "too weak," either. Dende's a healer, not a warrior, and so his lack of fighting skills or just his naturally not-combat-suited body could be just as much of a factor. Kind of like the Old Witch merging with the Kaioshin. So even if Mr. Satan's weaker, he's at least physically built similarly to Goku and has some sense for combat.

So all in all, I see Dende in the low single-thousands at the very least, though I wouldn't personally place him over 10 thousand. Right around 5,000 like I placed him for his GTR bio seems perfect for me.

As for the others... The low thousands for Moori also seems appropriate, given what we saw from the other adult Namekians. The Old Kaioshin is apparently very weak compared to Goku even in his base form, but how much I don't think we've got enough to say. Even if he's got a respectable amount of power level, that frail old body probably wouldn't let him do much with it. As for the South Kaio(shin?), he was said to be the strongest back in the day, so compared to East Kaioshin, then... I dunno, somewhere around as strong as the Super Saiyan 2s? As others have pointed out plenty, citing the Z-Sword for anything is unreliable, since we really have no indication that this specific Kaioshin ever tried it. I'm also waiting for the day that Toriyama reveals that the Z-Sword was cursed against the Kaioshin or something, because that sort of revelation would sure solve some minor Boo-arc mysteries.

[Kamiccolo9]

As for the South Kaio(shin?), he was said to be the strongest back in the day, so compared to East Kaioshin, then... I dunno, somewhere around as strong as the Super Saiyan 2s? As others have pointed out plenty, citing the Z-Sword for anything is unreliable, since we really have no indication that this specific Kaioshin ever tried it. I'm also waiting for the day that Toriyama reveals that the Z-Sword was cursed against the Kaioshin or something, because that sort of revelation would sure solve some minor Boo-arc mysteries.

I'm pretty sure he's talking about the South Kaio, the one who materialized the weights on Goku at the beginning of the Buu Arc.

[RandomGuy96]

I simply CAN'T accept or imagine the idea of Dende having a power level only in the single digits, if only because of that unlock from the Grand Elder. Humans are naturally much weaker than the average Namekians, but look how much that ritual still did for Kuririn. Dende's youth and tiny body at the time may have resulted in less power for him than otherwise, but only so much. Goku saying "not a fighter" doesn't necessarily have to mean "too weak," either. Dende's a healer, not a warrior, and so his lack of fighting skills or just his naturally not-combat-suited body could be just as much of a factor. Kind of like the Old Witch merging with the Kaioshin. So even if Mr. Satan's weaker, he's at least physically built similarly to Goku and has some sense for combat.

There were also the Dragon Balls to consider, though. I don't think Dende is any stronger that a similarly built Earthling, at least physically, but I'm pretty sure that Goku's reluctance to fuse with him wasn't due entirely to his lack of experience as a fighter.

I would buy the alternate explanations (Dende wasn't built like a human/saiyan so the merger would be disastrous, Goku wanted to keep the dragon balls, etc.) if they were even implied anywhere, or if Dende had even a single feat to his name. But as is, it seems pretty simple and straightforward that Dende is just weak. If Dende was literally hundreds of times stronger than Satan, Goku would have merged with him instead, or at the very least given his build/species as an explanation rather than just saying he's not a fighter. Toriyama's a simple story teller.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Toriyama said he was weaker than Bob Sapp.

Can Bob Sapp do this?

[RandomGuy96]

Ask Toriyama.

[Saiga]

I don't see why the power unlock has to mean getting a huge battle power. I don't see Kuririn or Gohan running around with healing abilities post-unlock, because they didn't have that ability dormant in them. So it's perfectly reasonable that Dende didn't have a lot of dormant battle power in him.

[Kaboom]

Because if the potential unlock only brought Dende up from a 3 to a 4, then what was the point?

Not everything has to be a power levels statement. "Dende's not a fighter" doesn't have to mean anything beyond, "Dende's not suited for fighting." It does NOT automatically mean something so specific as, "Dende has an extremely low battle power."

The power-up Dende received may not have been nearly as drastic as for Kuririn and Gohan and let him tango with the Ginyu Force or something, but it was enough to amaze the little guy and let him fly across half the planet in what I'm pretty sure was less than an hour. Nobody shoots through the sky like that with a single-digits power level.

[Legendary Saiya-Jin]

Dragon Ball Z: The Anime Adventure Game lists Dende Post-Guru unlock as 10,000; I don't have too much of a problem with that considering Dende would be Gohan x1,000 in being a reliable fighter and understanding how to use his power.

[Blade]

Toriyama said he was weaker than Bob Sapp.

Can Bob Sapp do this?

Off-topic, but man, that bottom right panel is really badly drawn. Toriyama must have been in more of a rush than usual that day.

[Hitiro]

The Namekians on the Namek had average battle powers in the 1,000's. I highly doubt Dende would be the black sheep of his race and only be as strong as a regular human. Also I'd like to point out that Videl was very much strained when she was flying across Earth. She had a higher than average battle power. Dende would not be able to fly around Namek if he was weaker than her otherwise he would be extremely exhausted. Another thing is Kami was also not a warrior. Yet his battle power was in the 100's and pre-splitting from Piccolo he had a great battle power. So I highly doubt Dende is so weak. Maybe he's not in the 1,000's but I don't see him being weaker than Kami.

[Saiga]

Because if the potential unlock only brought Dende up from a 3 to a 4, then what was the point?

Bringing out his ability to heal, which ended up being far more relevant than his battle power ever did.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Ask Toriyama.

What does Toriyama have to do with Bob Sapp? And from what I recall, Toriyama wasn't entirely serious when saying that Mr. Satan was as strong as Bob Sapp.