Viz's Print Edition of the "Full Colour Comics" Discussion

[theoriginalbilis]

At what point should we all band together and do a write-in campaign asking for them to leave it as Mr. Satan and Vegetto? Since they were making dialogue changes already, why not try and do a couple things right this time? It would honestly not be hard to do a search and replace of instances of the H-Word. And I'm sure the art they will get from Shueisha will have things like "Mr. Satan" written on his car and stuff already. It'd be less work to give us an untampered experience, honestly.

If someone wants to start a write-in petition, I'd be glad to do my part. Seriously, the "Hercule" and "Vegerot" debacle is the only true gripe I have with the Viz translation, and to have these changed back to their original names would make me a very satisfied customer.

[dbboxkaifan]

Imagine for one second that you were Christian... I'm pretty sure you would care (It doesn't matter to me too much because them chanting Satan kinda references the fact that he tricks his followers into following him and everyone thinks he beat Cell but I would still prefer Hercule)

If I were Christian/religious then I probably wouldn't watch, hear or do most of the stuff because of the religion's restrictions upon it so this means I wouldn't touch Dragon Ball at all in that regard.

Well, who are the customers supporting Dragon Ball for years? Is it the fans or parents/religious people? Fans but I'll acknowledge that those other two also support it in some way or another through allowing their child to watch it on the TV.

P.S.: I don't know if anyone would dare to say that Goku's and Raditz' bloody hole in their chest is worse than seeing the word "Satan"? That's just messed up.

[bkev]

I've always been of the mindset that it was out of consistency with the then-still popular TV edit dub of the series. Even though it was over when they got there, a lot of their subscribers/buyers probably still had fond memories of it. I'm fairly convinced that's the reason why VIZ went with Zolo over Zoro, which is why I'm so confused they haven't gone back yet...

[Vegard Aune]

I don't really mind Hercule so much but the Vegerot thing is just so out of left-field. Now in days if they translate a manga based off an anime whose dub changed the names they stick with the dub names--funny that they would go out of the way to create a new name that's different from both the dub and original. =/ Oh well, at least Vegetto is only in part of the story. Not as bad as reading 'Zolo' all the time in One Piece. My mind pretty much just autocorrects it to Zoro at this point though haha.

Vegetto comes from Vegeta and Kakarotto.

But Viz (and Funimation) turned Kakarotto into Kakarot. Funi just didn't care and left Vegetto as is, but Viz wanted to keep the naming logic.

So Vegeta and Kakarot make Vegerot.

The logic works...it just doesn't sound good.

^What I think every single time the "Vegerot"-thing gets brought up. Like, seriously, complain about how stupid it sounds all you like, but the fact remains, with the way Viz spells their respective names, "Vegetto" makes no sense in the translation. So if you're gonna demand they keep Vegetto then logically you should also be calling for them to start using "Kakarotto", because they'd literally need to do that for the fusion-name to make sense.

What about "Veget" then?

And that just sounds like they trunctated Vegeta's name and ignored Goku entirely. Also personal preference at play here, but I think "Vegerot" sounds better than "Veget".

[omegalucas]

I don't really mind Hercule so much but the Vegerot thing is just so out of left-field. Now in days if they translate a manga based off an anime whose dub changed the names they stick with the dub names--funny that they would go out of the way to create a new name that's different from both the dub and original. =/ Oh well, at least Vegetto is only in part of the story. Not as bad as reading 'Zolo' all the time in One Piece. My mind pretty much just autocorrects it to Zoro at this point though haha.

Vegetto comes from Vegeta and Kakarotto.

But Viz (and Funimation) turned Kakarotto into Kakarot. Funi just didn't care and left Vegetto as is, but Viz wanted to keep the naming logic.

So Vegeta and Kakarot make Vegerot.

The logic works...it just doesn't sound good.

^What I think every single time the "Vegerot"-thing gets brought up. Like, seriously, complain about how stupid it sounds all you like, but the fact remains, with the way Viz spells their respective names, "Vegetto" makes no sense in the translation. So if you're gonna demand they keep Vegetto then logically you should also be calling for them to start using "Kakarotto", because they'd literally need to do that for the fusion-name to make sense.

What about "Veget" then?

And that just sounds like they trunctated Vegeta's name and ignored Goku entirely. Also personal preference at play here, but I think "Vegerot" sounds better than "Veget".

That can be easily fixed with a translation note.
"In the original Japanese, Son Goku's name is spelled 'Kakarotto', thus the combination of 'Vegeta' and 'Kakarotto' is 'Vegetto'."

[hleV]

Vegetto's name remains as is because you don't mess with Vegetto.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Personally, I do feel they should have stuck with Kakarotto (also slightly upset that Kanzenshuu isn't using it) and wish they would change it at some point in the future. Even if they don't though, whether it makes sense or not, they should switch to Vegetto. "Vegerot" may follow the naming logic, but the fact remains that it's not the character's name. To me, a character's name shouldn't be changed during localization for any reason other than the name possibly being offensive in that language. I'm not talking about instances where some people might get offended by a dude being named Mr. Satan either. I'm talking about if something like Vegeta or Piccolo turned out to translate into something actually offensive or derogatory, like "faggot" (for lack of a better example after staying up all night).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

Personally, I do feel they should have stuck with Kakarotto (also slightly upset that Kanzenshuu isn't using it)

Now that you mentioned it, how come Kanzenshuu doesn't use Kakarotto?

[hleV]

If kyarotto is carrot, then kakarotto is kakarrot. It's very simple and I fail to see where does the confusion come from.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If kyarotto is carrot, then kakarotto is kakarrot. It's very simple and I fail to see where does the confusion come from.

I barely know anything about Japanese. Hence why I asked.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Now that you mentioned it, how come Kanzenshuu doesn't use Kakarotto?

I can't speak for them, but I imagine it has a lot to do with their attempt to try and remain consistent with the site's internal manual of style on romanizations.

Though I agree with their consistency choices most of the time, I'd be lying if I said some didn't irritate me a bit. For example, leaving Kaio and Kaioshin as is, but translating Kami to God and Hakaishin into God of Destruction. I do believe Mike has discussed this specific example before, so I understand the reasoning, but it doesn't feel valid to me and thus irritates me a bit. I'm not bashing them on their choices or anything though, as that's my problem and not theirs.

Though I feel if any character were worthy of breaking consistency over, the main character would be top qualifier. Especially since his Potara fusion kinda needs it for his name to make sense.

[UltimateHammerBro]

Personally, I do feel they should have stuck with Kakarotto (also slightly upset that Kanzenshuu isn't using it) and wish they would change it at some point in the future. Even if they don't though, whether it makes sense or not, they should switch to Vegetto. "Vegerot" may follow the naming logic, but the fact remains that it's not the character's name. To me, a character's name shouldn't be changed during localization for any reason other than the name possibly being offensive in that language. I'm not talking about instances where some people might get offended by a dude being named Mr. Satan either. I'm talking about if something like Vegeta or Piccolo turned out to translate into something actually offensive or derogatory, like "faggot" (for lack of a better example after staying up all night).

Well, we had Piano, Tambourine, Cymbal and Drum, since the Piccolo gang were named after instruments, so it wouldn't have been strange to see "Fagot" as one of them

And, to be fair, I don't see anything wrong with Vegerot. But if you want to go the straight route, "Veget". If the "tto" in Kakarotto is supposed to be pronounced as an English "t" as in "carrot", then the "tto" in Vegetto must be pronounced the same way.

[Codarik]

I don't understand why Viz won't go ahead and correct some names while they have the chance. Their Z manga has been out for years, I think they could put some more effort for the fans. I mean, they just currently released a manga I picked up and noticed they got an attack name mistranslated and told them about it.

Spoiler:

They were willing to report a mistake to a manga that was just released a few weeks ago, the Z manga has been out for years and they've most likely heard constant complaints about the name changes. They should just go ahead and fix everything so fans can get off their backs about it.

[Mewzard]

Imagine for one second that you were Christian... I'm pretty sure you would care (It doesn't matter to me too much because them chanting Satan kinda references the fact that he tricks his followers into following him and everyone thinks he beat Cell but I would still prefer Hercule)

If I were Christian/religious then I probably wouldn't watch, hear or do most of the stuff because of the religion's restrictions upon it so this means I wouldn't touch Dragon Ball at all in that regard.

...You do realize we're not a bunch of prudes that avoid every bit of fictional entertainment, right? I mean, some are, but that can happen in any group.

But yeah, on the matter of changes, the example posted above is of a legitimate mistake. They intentionally chose Hercule (seriously Mike, please get rid of this stupid filter, it just makes us have to do alterations to the word when discussing the name itself) and Vegerot, so it's not correcting a typo or a mistaken line, it's changing a piece of the translation. Vegerot's not too bad to change, due to how little of Vegetto appears in the manga...but Mr. Satan appears far more often than Vegetto, it would require a bit of work for the corrections.

[theoriginalbilis]

Not to stray too far off-topic, but as someone who grew up in a "Christian" household, my parents saw no harm in letting me watch action cartoons, PG-13 and R-rated movies, listen to loud music, etc. They made sure I understood that these were works of fiction, and were not meant to be taken as reality. There were plenty of things they wouldn't let me watch, but overall, they weren't overzealous or fanatical about stuff like that.

My Dad even sat with me and watch fansubbed DBZ tapes of the Buu arc where characters were shouting "Satan!" constantly, and we enjoyed watching them. So, in short, I was never really offended or outraged when it came to the term Mr. Satan being used, especially in a fictional work. It's just the character's name to me. That's all it is.

I suppose it just depends on the family environment, upbringing, etc..

[garnetjester]

I will add to this discussion that I am christian myself, but I have no issue with Mr Satan's name. Toriyama's reasoning for it is silly, just like almost everything else in DB, and I've never even given it much thought, especially because he's mostly a comic relief character. On the other hand, it was problematic for me because while I'm a rather liberal christian, my dad and my grandmother are very fundamentalist, so I had to mute the TV or turn it off altogether when it came to people chanting his name or whatever or else I would never hear the end of it.

[dbboxkaifan]

Looks like the names Vegerot/Hеrcule have to do with Shueisha & Toriyama's authority as per Viz Media's comment:

We use those names because those are the ones that were approved by Shueisha and Toriyama-sensei. If Akira Toriyama wants us to use different names, we likely would, but this hasn't been the case.

I don't know whether to trust Viz Media or not for this issue but it seems bs-y, imo.

[Luso Saiyan]

I still don't understand why people keep using Vegerot and Hercules on the same complaint, as if they are both valid examples of the main problem. Vegerot is not an error.

[dan2026]

Why would Toriyama approve H-ercule, that makes no sense.

At least Vegerot is technically correct.

[Luso Saiyan]

Why would Toriyama approve H-ercule, that makes no sense.

Maybe the censorship problem was explained to him and he chose an alternative name whose logic western audience could easily understand?