Vegeta the most evil?

[Hades]

Freeza, Cell and Buu called, they said bitch please.

Freeza is basically a Slaaneshi in all but name (and if Funi somehow got Malcolm McDowell to play him in season 3, I'm imagining something out of Caligula and Clockwork Orange being his dub lines )

Cell is like something out of H.R Giger's nightmares (right down to the penis tail)

Buu is an ancient horror that wants nothing more than to bring about the end of everything.

[RocktheDragon]

Well, according to mainstream society I'd say that both Vegeta and Nappa are irredeemable characters. They kill for fun, love to inflict pain, and in general seem to be masochistic in their intent.

However as Vegeta demonstrated throughout the series I don't think anyone in particular is irredeemable no matter what they've done. Society tells us that a cheater will always cheat, a murderer will always be dangerous, etc. But Vegeta speaks to the fact that people's hearts and minds can change over time, even if that change comes at a slow pace.

So in sum, Nappa could have easily been the one to grow as Vegeta did in the series, but I wouldn't say that one was better than the other.

[Kamiccolo9]

In-universe, Vegeta is a good guy by the end of the manga. This is confirmed at the end of the Buu Arc when Porunga revives everyone who died that day, "except the bad guys." Vegeta was brought back, ergo, he's not evil. I believe Goku even says something to that effect.

As I see it, the "pure evil" moniker should be reserved for guys like Daimao and Pure Buu, who are literally created from pure evil. Vegeta can't measure up to that, regardless of what he does, because beings like that are, by their very nature, embodiments of the concept of evil.

[RocktheDragon]

In-universe, Vegeta is a good guy by the end of the manga. This is confirmed at the end of the Buu Arc when Porunga revives everyone who died that day, "except the bad guys." Vegeta was brought back, ergo, he's not evil. I believe Goku even says something to that effect.

As I see it, the "pure evil" moniker should be reserved for guys like Daimao and Pure Buu, who are literally created from pure evil. Vegeta can't measure up to that, regardless of what he does, because beings like that are, by their very nature, embodiments of the concept of evil.

What about Daimao's son though? Isn't he just as "pure evil" as his father (he) was? And yet he is able to change for the better.

[Kamiccolo9]

In-universe, Vegeta is a good guy by the end of the manga. This is confirmed at the end of the Buu Arc when Porunga revives everyone who died that day, "except the bad guys." Vegeta was brought back, ergo, he's not evil. I believe Goku even says something to that effect.

As I see it, the "pure evil" moniker should be reserved for guys like Daimao and Pure Buu, who are literally created from pure evil. Vegeta can't measure up to that, regardless of what he does, because beings like that are, by their very nature, embodiments of the concept of evil.

What about Daimao's son though? Isn't he just as "pure evil" as his father (he) was? And yet he is able to change for the better.

Piccolo both is and is not Daimao. He's his reincarnation, but he wasn't created out of pure evil like Daimao was. Same with Uub. They are reincarnations, and in a way the same being, but are also, at the same time, not.

[RocktheDragon]

In-universe, Vegeta is a good guy by the end of the manga. This is confirmed at the end of the Buu Arc when Porunga revives everyone who died that day, "except the bad guys." Vegeta was brought back, ergo, he's not evil. I believe Goku even says something to that effect.

As I see it, the "pure evil" moniker should be reserved for guys like Daimao and Pure Buu, who are literally created from pure evil. Vegeta can't measure up to that, regardless of what he does, because beings like that are, by their very nature, embodiments of the concept of evil.

What about Daimao's son though? Isn't he just as "pure evil" as his father (he) was? And yet he is able to change for the better.

Piccolo both is and is not Daimao. He's his reincarnation, but he wasn't created out of pure evil like Daimao was. Same with Uub. They are reincarnations, and in a way the same being, but are also, at the same time, not.

I would contest a straight likening of Uub and Piccolo though. Uub is a more literal reincarnation in the sense that after Kid Buu died Uub was created. Whereas Piccolo was given direct birth by his father so I don't see that equation. By your logic wouldn't/shouldn't evil continually giver birth to evil? So why are the creatures that Daimao created before Piccolo so evil? They both were a result of an "egg birth".

[ABED]

Daimao is Kami's evil given physical form, whereas the Piccolo we know and love is his son who was given his knowledge and power, but is his own person.

To me, Freeza is the most evil because unlike Daimao, Cell, or Buu, he made the conscious decision to be who he was.

[RocktheDragon]

Daimao is Kami's evil given physical form, whereas the Piccolo we know and love is his son who was given his knowledge and power, but is his own person.

And yet Piccolo is still very much Daimao even as he is his own person. This is referenced very well in Dragon Ball, and I've seen this debated on the forum a bit. I don't think it's as simple as simply labeling him "his own person".

[RocktheDragon]

To me, Freeza is the most evil because unlike Daimao, Cell, or Buu, he made the conscious decision to be who he was.

That's something I can agree with you on. Also Freeza refused Goku's sparing of his life and tried to kill him after, something that Piccolo did not do at the end of DB.

[Kamiccolo9]

I would contest a straight likening of Uub and Piccolo though. Uub is a more literal reincarnation in the sense that after Kid Buu died Uub was created. Whereas Piccolo was given direct birth by his father so I don't see that equation. By your logic wouldn't/shouldn't evil continually giver birth to evil? So why is it that the creatures Daimao created before Piccolo so evil? They both were a result of an "egg birth".

Magic?

In all seriousness, I think that the circumstances of their births are irrelevant (thanks Mewtwo). Piccolo is said to be the reincarnation of Daimao, and Uub is of Pure Buu. I don't think it matters how that reincarnation was achieved.

I don't think evil necessarily has to give birth to evil. Daimao's other spawn were "corrupted" demon clansman, while Piccolo was the product of "normal" Namekian reproduction. Sure's he's got Daimao's "template," if you will, on him, but he's not bound by his very nature of being like Daimao was. I don't think Daimao would have been capable of redemption. Daimao is a metaphysical entity taken physical form; Piccolo is a "normal" Namekian with the soul and memories of another being implanted within him, but he's not literally made out of pure evil.

Hopefully that makes sense?

[ABED]

Daimao is Kami's evil given physical form, whereas the Piccolo we know and love is his son who was given his knowledge and power, but is his own person.

And yet Piccolo is still very much Daimao even as he is his own person. This is referenced very well in Dragon Ball, and I've seen this debated on the forum a bit. I don't think it's as simple as simply labeling him "his own person".

I don't think he's Daimao as much as a child who was forcefed his parent's evil ideas. I'm not saying this to make him look sympathetic, but more that it's how it comes across to me. He's not just Daimao in a younger body. To me, that seems pretty clear from his design to his voice.

[RandomGuy96]

Does Super Buu count as someone who "chose?"

Perhaps Broly could also be considered evil since he's got zero redeeming qualities. Also, while Freeza at least showed reactions when his men gets killed, Ginyu Tokusentai etc, Broly gives no shit.

Blasted Planet Shamo : gives no fuck

Crushed his Dad with his space-pod : gives no fuck.

Broly at least had a tragic backstory. Also Paragus was a dick.

Freeza also kills for fun, he didn't have a family which he came around to loving, and he didn't help save the universe. This doesn't absolve Vegeta of his sins, but it does make him less evil. Freeza didn't just kill the entire Saiyan race, he laughed like a madman and called it "fireworks". Do you think Freeza honestly gave a crap about his henchmen?

When?

Vegeta only did out of purely selfish reasons. I bet Freeza would do the same in that position. Unless you're talking about Buu, in which case it's not fair to make that comparison, as circumstances never lead to Freeza having to join the z-gang like Vegeta.

Filler. Also, the saiyans were assholes and, going by filler, had just made an attempt on his life.

[Fizzer]

Isn't it said by Kaio that evil originally entered Kami's heart through his contact with humans, as he was originally pure good? In this way, as Piccolo Jr grew up from a pure evil seed, good could have entered his heart through his contact with humans, and eventually, probably when he took Nail into himself, outweighed his original evil.

[Hades]

Daimao is Kami's evil given physical form, whereas the Piccolo we know and love is his son who was given his knowledge and power, but is his own person.

To me, Freeza is the most evil because unlike Daimao, Cell, or Buu, he made the conscious decision to be who he was.

Daimao, Cell and Buu all chose to, and revelled in, their evil (See the "random city annihilated once a year", "being a rape monster on par with Giger's alien" and "turning people into living sweets and eating them alive")

[ABED]

Daimao didn't choose, he's literally evil incarnate.

Cell doesn't rape people, be serious. He was designed to kill and dominate.

Buu was a magical creation that was designed for evil purposes.

When?

Vegeta only did out of purely selfish reasons. I bet Freeza would do the same in that position. Unless you're talking about Buu, in which case it's not fair to make that comparison, as circumstances never lead to Freeza having to join the z-gang like Vegeta.

Filler. Also, the saiyans were assholes and, going by filler, had just made an attempt on his life.

Really? You think Bardock's pathetic attempt on his life was justification for destroying a whole planet? What did he have to fear from an ant? It's not like Freeza's reasons for destroying it were legit, he was insecure that one of them would rise of and kill him. Well, the two frames of Bardock does lead me to believe that it happened in a similar fashion to the TV special. Of course the Saiyans are assholes, but I don't see your point.

Yes, caring for Vegeta's family was selfish of him. I don't see what the problem is. Circumstances didn't lead him to joining the Z Team, it was Vegeta himself.

Vegeta did love his family, eventually, and not in the tribalist way.

[Hades]

Daimao didn't choose, he's literally evil incarnate.

Which means he chose evil

Cell doesn't rape people, be serious. He was designed to kill and dominate.

Look at the way Cell killed that rich man in Gingertown and the way he absorbed the Androids. If that isn't the most blatant symbolism of rape since Alien, I don't know what is.

Buu was a magical creation that was designed for evil purposes.

And?

[ABED]

Which means he chose evil

I don't see how. He was the cast off evil portion of Kami.

Look at the way Cell killed that rich man in Gingertown and the way he absorbed the Androids. If that isn't the most blatant symbolism of rape since Alien, I don't know what is.

Sometimes a river is just a river. The big difference is that in Alien, the face hugger basically impregnates another being. There's nothing similar here. Just because something might be phallic shaped doesn't make it a penis metaphor.

And?

The point speaks for itself, Buu had no choice in what he did. So perhaps technically he's not evil since morality of any kind requires choice, but he sure as hell didn't make decisions of his own free will.

[DBZAOTA482]

Daimao is Kami's evil given physical form, whereas the Piccolo we know and love is his son who was given his knowledge and power, but is his own person.

To me, Freeza is the most evil because unlike Daimao, Cell, or Buu, he made the conscious decision to be who he was.

One can argue that Cell rivals Freeza in evil-ness as he as well had a conscious decision. His conversation with Trunks strongly implies that he had a free will therefore could have used his powers for good but decide to use it for his own twisted amusement instead.

[ABED]

All of everyone's interactions imply everyone has free will on the show, even the cyborgs have emotions. Toriyama wasn't going for realism.

[Attitudefan]

But one could argue that being created from evil or to do evil purposes makes those characters void of being the most evil since they don't really have a choice. Vegeta chooses to murder everyone including his friends. I would argue that because of his freedom of choice, he is the most evil. Freeza being up there too.

Cell and Buu, even Daimao, were created as an evil being ingrained in their DNA or their programing which, no matter what, had to do an evil task. In a way, it is like the argument of a wild animal who kills compared to a human poacher or hunter; the argument there lies in awareness and the ability to interpret right or wrong on a moral ground where wild animals don't understand that.

Cell or Buu are like wild animals. It is shown by Goku and even Vegeta that Saiyans feel guilt, and what is right or wrong, and understand moral obligations. See Vegeta and why he wanted to be controlled by Babidi.