Even including BoG, there is nothing that puts SS3 Goku, and even Enraged SS2 Vegeta I would say, above SS Gotenks.KentalSSJ6 wrote:I was gonna ask the same thing. Excluding BOG It should be Super Veggeto > Buuhan > Buutenks > Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (post ROSAT) > SSJ3 Goku.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why do you place SS3 Goku above SS Gotenks & U. Gohan?
Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Oh, I see then.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Vegeta making the guy who one shot Gohan bleed?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Oh, I see then.Even including BoG, there is nothing that puts SS3 Goku, and even Enraged SS2 Vegeta I would say, above SS Gotenks.KentalSSJ6 wrote:I was gonna ask the same thing. Excluding BOG It should be Super Veggeto > Buuhan > Buutenks > Mystic Gohan > SSJ3 Gotenks > SSJ Gotenks (post ROSAT) > SSJ3 Goku.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Why do you place SS3 Goku above SS Gotenks & U. Gohan?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
If Beerus was hitting Vegeta with the same strength he was hitting Gohan or Gotenks, Vegeta would have been dead. Meaning that Beerus was holding back more against Vegeta. Plus, Beerus was caught off-guard, since he didn't expect Vegeta to be that strong, and then allowed Vegeta to finish his attack, hoping that he would become a Super Saiyan God. And Vegeta didn't do any real damage to Beerus.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Why not assume Beerus used roughly the same amount of strength to hit Vegeta that he used before against the others? Couldn't Vegeta simply become much stronger than Ultimate Gohan and they mentioned Goku just for the sake of the legendary comparison between them?DBZGTKOSDH wrote:If Beerus was hitting Vegeta with the same strength he was hitting Gohan or Gotenks, Vegeta would have been dead. Meaning that Beerus was holding back more against Vegeta.
Goku also didn't do any real damage to Beerus, even so most of the people still treats him as stronger than, well, Super Vegetto.Plus, Beerus was caught off-guard, since he didn't expect Vegeta to be that strong, and then allowed Vegeta to finish his attack, hoping that he would become a Super Saiyan God. And Vegeta didn't do any real damage to Beerus.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Birusu also never mentioned Gohan at the end, only Goku and Vegeta.
Vegeta surpassed Gohan, stupid as that is.
Vegeta surpassed Gohan, stupid as that is.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
The idea that Beerus, someone who constantly changes his power to fight specific opponents, and who had just suppressed his power enough not to kill a regular human, would not only remember exactly what percentage of power he used to KO Gohan, but use it on Vegeta, in an apparent attempt to violently murder him in a moment of OOC-ness, rather than use just enough power to KO Vegeta, then not use anymore power while being hit despite apparently not letting Vegeta do that, and wanting to kill him, then not killing him after he runs out of juice, makes absolutely no sense to me. He was clearly using nowhere near full strength. Why does he also have to be conveniently using strength greater than Gohan's?
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Gohan didn't impress Beerus, while Vegeta did, not to mention that Vegeta impressed him with his fighting sense and his random sudden power up, not with his BP, which was below shit compared to Beerus. He is also most likely talking about a hypothetical Super Saiyan God Vegeta, since he knows that everyone can transform now.Zombie wrote:Birusu also never mentioned Gohan at the end, only Goku and Vegeta.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Zeta_Patchouli
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Eh. I wrote up a set a while ago, so I thought I might as well share them. I made these to basically attempt to crunch down some numbers in order to keep it from inflating a bunch even in a multiplier system. I likely failed, though I did give it an attempt. I only did Dragon Ball Z because I'm both more familiar with it, and because really, I didn't feel like doing such minute details on the original Dragon Ball. I'd only do that if for some reason I decided to make my own system, which isn't happening.
Now, a bit of a note about this list. In general, if a fighter is about 10% stronger than the opponent, they have a fairly large lead on their opponent. One that could mean a fairly easy fight, even. There are exceptions, yes, but for this, this is generally the rule. I would have had my own commentary on this list, but... I am long-winded. Way too long-winded for the character count.
Now let's begin. However, I shall list the multipliers here instead of where they're appropriate.
Super Saiyan Multipliers
Battle with Raditz
The Others
Battle with Nappa and Vegeta
The Crisis on Namek
Ginyu Force Assemble!
The Chilling Lord Freeza
The Legendary Super Saiyan
The Arrival of Freeza and the Mysterious Boy
Android Attack
The Imperfect Cell
Ascended Saiyans and Perfection
The Cell Games
Releasing Majin Boo
Big Bad Boo
Fusions and Mystics and Absorptions oh my!
Pure Boo
10 years later...
There are people I likely forgot, and if so, I apologize. On this list, I will not list the Battle of the Gods, as the Gods are not particularly measurable with the rest unless they somehow get a comparison between them and Boo or SSJ3 Goku or Gohan or something. And movies are their own thing.
Also, I apologize for taking your format, dbgtFO, but it really was the best format I could see for this kind of list.
Now, a bit of a note about this list. In general, if a fighter is about 10% stronger than the opponent, they have a fairly large lead on their opponent. One that could mean a fairly easy fight, even. There are exceptions, yes, but for this, this is generally the rule. I would have had my own commentary on this list, but... I am long-winded. Way too long-winded for the character count.
Now let's begin. However, I shall list the multipliers here instead of where they're appropriate.
Super Saiyan Multipliers
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Also, I apologize for taking your format, dbgtFO, but it really was the best format I could see for this kind of list.
Last edited by Zeta_Patchouli on Sat Jul 05, 2014 2:53 am, edited 4 times in total.
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Haha, there's no need to apologize for that. I'm fine with it.Zeta_Patchouli wrote: Also, I apologize for taking your format, dbgtFO, but it really was the best format I could see for this kind of list.
But there's one thing I'd like to point out in regards to your list:
I don't know how many takes note of this, but in the Room of Spirit and Time Gohan remarked how Goku's power surpassed Cell's after transforming into an (as you call it) "Ultra Super Saiyan."Super Saiyan Multipliers
Super Saiyan: x50
Ascended Super Saiyan: x60
Ultra Super Saiyan: x80
Android Attack
Son Goku - 5 million
- Super Saiyan - 250 million
The Imperfect Cell
Semi-Perfect Cell - 800 million
Since Gohan sensed Semi-Pefect Cell's initial power, Goku's power must have surpassed that level. It's notable that Goku didn't do any training until after demonstrating the bulky Super Saiyan states, so his power level should barely have changed from before he entered the room.
According to your multipliers Goku would only end up with ½ of Cell's power and that is one of those peculiar things I like to point out, because it's often overlooked.
In my power levels list this forced "Ultra Super Saiyan" to be 2x as powerful as "Ascended Super Saiyan."
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Zeta_Patchouli
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Huh. I could've sworn he did some training before that. From what I can tell, it took Vegeta a few months to master the lesser form, and Trunks a while to even really get to Ultra. Hmm... maybe... I'm not going to change the multipliers, but I may have to fiddle with the levels of everyone around this point. Semi-Perfect Cell's boost was a bit modified from a weaker point anyway. Perhaps...
I'll do some slight tweaking in that arc. Weakening Cell, Vegeta and Trunks a touch. I know they got a lot stronger in the time chamber, too, even afterwards. Goku and Gohan just outstripped them there. Although Cell's full power will likely remain the same.
I'll do some slight tweaking in that arc. Weakening Cell, Vegeta and Trunks a touch. I know they got a lot stronger in the time chamber, too, even afterwards. Goku and Gohan just outstripped them there. Although Cell's full power will likely remain the same.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
How did Krillin go from 210K to 2 million in 10 days?
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Zeta_Patchouli
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I'm not going to lie, I did kind of throw them a bone there was my original thinking. What confuses me more is how he jumped from 13k to 75k in the Freeza arc when there is hardly any time to adjust. Even other sources tend to put him as much higher there somehow, despite the fact that there is no Zenkai boosts or anything there. However, I will reverse it as I did forget a few things. That area tends to confuse me due to just how fast people tend to accelerate in power there.Zombie wrote:How did Krillin go from 210K to 2 million in 10 days?
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ZombieVito
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
He was getting stronger because of Guru's potential unlock, Vegeta confirmed it.
Is that 75K official? It wasn't on the Daiz.
Is that 75K official? It wasn't on the Daiz.
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Zeta_Patchouli
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
75,000 is a number that seems to be thrown around a lot. It was not in the Daiz, though, instead in V-jump from what I can tell. In the grand scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter too much, but it was a point of confusion. I didn't know that it was still working on Krillin at that point.
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xmysticgohanx
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Ya it's from the V-Jump, the same book that has Vegeta at 250,000 vs Freeza and Gogeta at a ridiculously weak pl.Zeta_Patchouli wrote:75,000 is a number that seems to be thrown around a lot. It was not in the Daiz, though, instead in V-jump from what I can tell. In the grand scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter too much, but it was a point of confusion. I didn't know that it was still working on Krillin at that point.
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
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KentalSSJ6
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Was talking to a guy on deviantart and he wants his power levels reviewed by you guys.
Discuss.
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Discuss.
Deviantart (NSFW) - http://yamato012.deviantart.com/
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]
DBSW Group Page - http://dbsw.deviantart.com/
Still the 1k Sniper - [spoiler]http://orig10.deviantart.net/6a02/f/201 ... 8npe7r.png[/spoiler]
Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
I stopped at Vegeta being 25,000. One cannot simply go around the established fact that Vegeta was 18,000 and didn't have the ability to power up at that time only because it appears to them that the story indicates otherwise.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Yeah... due to a variety of factors, including disregarding basic manga statements and format (why does he hate commas for the first few?), I don't think I could actually review this list unless I spent like an hour picking the whole thing apart. But stuff like him putting Vegeta at 25,000 in the Saiyan arc, putting 3rd form Freeza far ahead of 3 million, putting Goku SS3 equal to Super Buu, and making Janemba stronger than Buuhan suggests to me that he just needs to re-read/watch the story or something.
Oh, and Broly's stronger than SS3 Goku, Super Buu, Ultimate Gohan, and Buu's absorbed forms. Is this a joke?
Oh, and Broly's stronger than SS3 Goku, Super Buu, Ultimate Gohan, and Buu's absorbed forms. Is this a joke?
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
This looks like a mess, but let's see...
21st TB Goku: He has him at 180, even though he was even with Muten Roshi, who was below 139 at that point. Except if he means 22nd TB Goku? Then he has wrong picture.
23rd TB Goku: He has him at 910, even though Raditz arc Goku was at 416. I guess he too that number from the WSJ issue, but the 416 comes from the manga, making the WSJ issue wrong.
Saiyan arc Vegeta: Like others said, he isn't at 25.000. It's an established fact that Vegeta was at 18.000, and 180.000 as an Oozaru.
Raditz arc Piccolo: He has him at 890, even though it's stated in the manga that he is at 408.
Raditz arc Gohan: While not enraged, Gohan was a normal baby with a BP of 1, so 50 is too high. And while enraged, he was stated to be in the manga at 1.307, not at 2.500.
Saiyan arc Gohan: The 2.800 number in the manga goes for Enraged Gohan's Masenko, not for Gohan.
3rd Form Freeza: Too high. Initial Final Form Freeza was at 3.000.000, judging from his fight with Goku, so he should be below 3.000.000.
Cold: If he can transform (which I doubt), he has to be below Freeza no matter what.
I'll continue later.
21st TB Goku: He has him at 180, even though he was even with Muten Roshi, who was below 139 at that point. Except if he means 22nd TB Goku? Then he has wrong picture.
23rd TB Goku: He has him at 910, even though Raditz arc Goku was at 416. I guess he too that number from the WSJ issue, but the 416 comes from the manga, making the WSJ issue wrong.
Saiyan arc Vegeta: Like others said, he isn't at 25.000. It's an established fact that Vegeta was at 18.000, and 180.000 as an Oozaru.
Raditz arc Piccolo: He has him at 890, even though it's stated in the manga that he is at 408.
Raditz arc Gohan: While not enraged, Gohan was a normal baby with a BP of 1, so 50 is too high. And while enraged, he was stated to be in the manga at 1.307, not at 2.500.
Saiyan arc Gohan: The 2.800 number in the manga goes for Enraged Gohan's Masenko, not for Gohan.
3rd Form Freeza: Too high. Initial Final Form Freeza was at 3.000.000, judging from his fight with Goku, so he should be below 3.000.000.
Cold: If he can transform (which I doubt), he has to be below Freeza no matter what.
I'll continue later.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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ZombieVito
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread
Don't think so, Vegeta was confirmed to be weaker before he turned.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:This looks like a mess, but let's see...
Saiyan arc Vegeta: Like others said, he isn't at 25.000. It's an established fact that Vegeta was at 18.000, and 180.000 as an Oozaru.