Paikuhan never used Burning Shoot on Olibu, and he wasn't on par because he lost.dbgtFO wrote:Olibu was on par with Paikuhan(weighted), who had defeated Cell.Polyphase Avatron wrote: Anyway, no comments on Olibu vs. 16?
Olibu wins rather easily in fact.
The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
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Polyphase Avatron
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Cool stuff that I upload here because Youtube will copyright claim it: https://vimeo.com/user60967147
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Olibu was weaker than Yamcha, and also weaker than the Paikuhan that was around Base Goku's level. So, he gets destroyed by #16 easily.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Burning shoot?Polyphase Avatron wrote:Paikuhan never used Burning Shoot on Olibu,
That attack in the videogame fans constantly claim is the one Paikuhan used on Cell to prove Paikuhan wasn't really more powerful than Cell?
Is it stated within the anime?
Your reasoning is flawed.and he wasn't on par because he lost.
It may turn out that Olibu was not on par with Paikuhan(weighted), but it's not because he lost, otherwise you might as well say that Goku wasn't on par with Tenshinhan at the 22nd Torunament, because he lost, that SS2 Goku wasn't on par with SS2 Vegeta("Majin), because he lost etc.
Losing a fight does not exclusively mean you are weaker.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
It was shown in the anime that Paikuhan used a special attack to defeat Cell.dbgtFO wrote:That attack in the videogame fans constantly claim is the one Paikuhan used on Cell to prove Paikuhan wasn't really more powerful than Cell?
Is it stated within the anime?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
It was never stated or anything to be a special attack.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:It was shown in the anime that Paikuhan used a special attack to defeat Cell.dbgtFO wrote:That attack in the videogame fans constantly claim is the one Paikuhan used on Cell to prove Paikuhan wasn't really more powerful than Cell?
Is it stated within the anime?
That's just made up.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
No, when someone randomly gets in fire, something is happening. And the video games classify it as a technique.dbgtFO wrote:It was never stated or anything to be a special attack.
That's just made up.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I already addressed the video game, but the fact that it isn't mentioned at all in the anime or any guidebook(?) is rather crucial.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:No, when someone randomly gets in fire, something is happening. And the video games classify it as a technique.dbgtFO wrote:It was never stated or anything to be a special attack.
That's just made up.
You don't seem to think Goku(base) got any stronger either, but this is mentioned in the anime.
As I recall from the thread where Paikuhan vs Cell was discussed a few years back, Goku was constantly improving throughout the tournament and could at first not keep up with Olibu and Paikuhan's movements, but then he had improved to the point he could almost overpower Paikuhan.
Olibu should be pretty strong. Where the hell they got the idea Yamcha could fight him, I don't know. I think once the hype had died Down, Olibu was just treated as another useless background character(like I think Gohan and Gotenks are nowadays) and served as jobber for Yamcha.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
The only anime guidebook that has a list of techniques is D7/C4, and they did a very shitty job when it came to anime-only techniques.dbgtFO wrote:the fact that it isn't mentioned at all in the anime or any guidebook(?) is rather crucial.
I saw the fight, and Goku really couldn't see them. But was it stated that Goku got stronger, or you get that impression because Goku couldn't see them but then could overpower Paikuhan?You don't seem to think Goku(base) got any stronger either, but this is mentioned in the anime.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
It goes like this:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:The only anime guidebook that has a list of techniques is D7/C4, and they did a very shitty job when it came to anime-only techniques.dbgtFO wrote:the fact that it isn't mentioned at all in the anime or any guidebook(?) is rather crucial.
I saw the fight, and Goku really couldn't see them. But was it stated that Goku got stronger, or you get that impression because Goku couldn't see them but then could overpower Paikuhan?You don't seem to think Goku(base) got any stronger either, but this is mentioned in the anime.
- Goku states Tarpikar moved so fast, Goku wouldn't be able to dodge him.
- Goku states Olibu and Paikuhan move so fast, he can't even follow them.
- Paikuhan thinks to himself, Goku had gotten stronger upon seeing Goku defeat Malakai.
- Goku then fights Paikuhan and manages to get the upperhand until Paikuhan decides to take off his weights, noting that Goku was even more powerful than he thought.
Goku(base, at the start of the tournament) < Olibu =< Paikuhan(weighted) < Goku(base, during the final).
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I doubt Goku got stronger. From what I recall, he defeated everyone (except for Paikuhan) easily. So, I guess that Paikuhan & Olibu were just really fast, and Goku was holding back before Paikuhan.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Yes, it usually ends in disagreement like this 
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xmysticgohanx
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Tien vs Krillin, the Daizenshuu says Tien is 100% human.
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
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Cursed Lemon
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
If Goku and Gohan post-ROSAT would've legitimately fought, without Gohan ever exploding into SSJ2, who would've won?
Special Beam Cannon!
（ﾟДﾟ）σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃
（ﾟДﾟ）σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Gohan would have crushed his father like an ant. Goku at that point was incapable of damaging or even laying a hand on Gohan.Cursed Lemon wrote:If Goku and Gohan post-ROSAT would've legitimately fought, without Gohan ever exploding into SSJ2, who would've won?
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
Kuririn vs Tenshinhan - Kuririn wins. The Daizenshuu still label Ten as an Earthling so he doesn't get a free "out" of the statement of Kuririn being strongest.
Gohan vs Goku - Gohan wins. He's stronger than Goku and at least heavily implied to be stronger than the level Cell used to run rings around Goku, so he can take it quite easily.
Gohan vs Goku - Gohan wins. He's stronger than Goku and at least heavily implied to be stronger than the level Cell used to run rings around Goku, so he can take it quite easily.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I kinda wonder how Gohan never knew he was stronger sooner. Weren't they sparring a whole lot? Wouldn't he notice at one point he was superior during the spars.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
He was constantly telling himself that Goku was holding back any time he felt his power after the RoSaT, so it could be the same for the sparring as well. That or they didn't use their full power at all until leaving the RoSaT.dbzfan7 wrote:I kinda wonder how Gohan never knew he was stronger sooner. Weren't they sparring a whole lot? Wouldn't he notice at one point he was superior during the spars.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
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Cursed Lemon
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
I don't think you can say that Cell was "running rings" around Goku. For the most part they fought evenly (even if Cell wasn't fully trying), and we don't really see Gohan get into that much of an exchange with Cell before he transforms. Cell was definitely impressed, but I'm inclined to think that what everyone saw in Gohan was the ability to hit the next level, rather than being so much stronger than Goku in the first SSJ state. Plus, I don't believe Gohan to be resourceful enough to try something like the Instant Kamehameha.
Special Beam Cannon!
（ﾟДﾟ）σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃
（ﾟДﾟ）σ 弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌弌⊃
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RandomGuy96
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Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
It's plainly shown that Cell is well in the lead at that point, with Goku having trouble just hitting him. He has to use his skill to stay competitive, and he still loses.Cursed Lemon wrote:I don't think you can say that Cell was "running rings" around Goku. For the most part they fought evenly (even if Cell wasn't fully trying), and we don't really see Gohan get into that much of an exchange with Cell before he transforms. Cell was definitely impressed, but I'm inclined to think that what everyone saw in Gohan was the ability to hit the next level, rather than being so much stronger than Goku in the first SSJ state. Plus, I don't believe Gohan to be resourceful enough to try something like the Instant Kamehameha.
On the other hand, Cell couldn't even touch Gohan until he did a big power-up. Remember, the Cell that couldn't lay a hand on Gohan was the same one that Goku could barely keep up with.
It wouldn't matter what Goku tried. I doubt he could even follow Gohan's movements.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Re: The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread
And then Gohan's not impressed with either's performance during the battle, which includes a scene of Cell outspeeding Goku quite easily. So he'd probably outspeed Goku far more than that.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!