Plothole Reconciliation Thread

[Hitiro]

Vegeta says Zenkais don't work if they're self-inflicted. Yet Goku got them by doing just that. Any explanations?

Vegeta felt that the Zenkai needed to catch up to Freeza would literally need to come from a death blow inflicted in him. I don't know if you've tried this yourself but it is very difficult to inflict a killing blow on yourself because it is hard to put yourself in that frame of mind. You would subconsciously recoil and protect yourself from that killing blow. With weapons it is slightly different because they are a external factor. But what would likely happen is Vegeta would try and blast himself to bring himself near death but he would subconsciously defend himself and only do so much damage. Much like Goku was doing while training. That is why he got Kuririn to do it as it would come as a surprise and thus his body wouldn't react to it fast enough. It is the same with trying to tickle yourself. It isn't really possible to do it yourself, but when someone else tries to do it then it works.

[TheGmGoken]

Vegeta says Zenkais don't work if they're self-inflicted. Yet Goku got them by doing just that. Any explanations?

Vegeta felt that the Zenkai needed to catch up to Freeza would literally need to come from a death blow inflicted in him. I don't know if you've tried this yourself but it is very difficult to inflict a killing blow on yourself because it is hard to put yourself in that frame of mind. You would subconsciously recoil and protect yourself from that killing blow. With weapons it is slightly different because they are a external factor. But what would likely happen is Vegeta would try and blast himself to bring himself near death but he would subconsciously defend himself and only do so much damage. Much like Goku was doing while training. That is why he got Kuririn to do it as it would come as a surprise and thus his body wouldn't react to it fast enough. It is the same with trying to tickle yourself. It isn't really possible to do yourself, but when someone else tries to it works.

Holy shit! I can't tickle myself. I honestly didn't know that

[Hitiro]

Holy shit! I can't tickle myself. I honestly didn't know that

Are you being sarcastic or genuine? I thought everyone knew about that.

[TheGmGoken]

Holy shit! I can't tickle myself. I honestly didn't know that

Are you being sarcastic or genuine? I thought everyone knew about that.

I'm serious. I really didn't know I can't tickle myself. I've been trying for years.

[Hitiro]

I'm serious. I really didn't know I can't tickle myself. I've been trying for years.

Yeah, it's a psychological thing. Your mind predicts the touch of your fingers which cancels out the sensation of whatever in your mind triggers make you feel ticklish.

[thatdbzguy]

So Kid Buu brought to my attention yet another plot hole with the Cell saga.

Piccolo is surprised Cell can use the Solar Flare because it is Tenshinhan's move, but he personally saw Goku use the move at the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai. Either it is a Toriyama brain fart, Piccolo being dumb, or both.

It's amazing how even to this day I'm still discovering new things wrong with this saga.

[Kid Buu]

Yeah I did mention that earlier. I just think it slipped Toriyama's mind that both Piccolo and Kami should have saw Goku mimic the Solar Flare at the 23rd Budokai.

Apparently there is a scene where Toriyama changes Yamchas hair style from bowl cut to spikey in the same page, but I havent seen it.

[Gaffer Tape]

It's not in the same page, but for one panel near the end of 337, Yamucha's hair reverts back to its bowl cut.

[White Oni]

Claim: Cell regenerating after Goku had fired his Kamehameha at him from point blank range, destroying his arms, wings and head is a plothole.
Reasoning: Cell later stated, he could regenerate, as long as his nucleus inside his head remained intact, yet Goku destroyed his head, therefore making it impossible for him to regenerate.

Answer:

Cell's head being intact is a sufficient, NOT necessary, condition for his regeneration.

It's that simple folks.

[Kamiccolo9]

Claim: Cell regenerating after Goku had fired his Kamehameha at him from point blank range, destroying his arms, wings and head is a plothole.
Reasoning: Cell later stated, he could regenerate, as long as his nucleus inside his head remained intact, yet Goku destroyed his head, therefore making it impossible for him to regenerate.

Answer:

Cell's head being intact is a sufficient, NOT necessary, condition for his regeneration.

It's that simple folks.

Cell didn't seem to realize what his regeneration was capable of until after he came back from blowing himself up, so it doesn't seem like he's fully aware of why his body does things. My explanation is that while Piccolo couldn't regenerate from having a destroyed head, because that would kill him, Cell is capable of surviving from that kind of injury due to the Freeza cells within him. Remember how Freeza survived with big chunks of his head missing? Since it's not a fatal injury, Cell could recover from it.

If I were to get scientific on this, I'd guess that Freeza, and Cell, by default, have diffuse nervous systems and don't have a singular "brain" that can be targeted and destroyed. Kinda like how worms can survive after being cut in half. Piccolo couldn't regenerate from a shattered head because his brain, which is located in his head, would be destroyed, but Cell could because his brain wouldn't be located in his head; it would be located all throughout his body.

So this explanation is kinda like the one that the Funimation Dub gives, I guess. Each Cell holds the blueprint for regenerating Cell, because his "brain" is diffused throughout his entire body.

[KentalSSJ6]

Claim: Cell regenerating after Goku had fired his Kamehameha at him from point blank range, destroying his arms, wings and head is a plothole.
Reasoning: Cell later stated, he could regenerate, as long as his nucleus inside his head remained intact, yet Goku destroyed his head, therefore making it impossible for him to regenerate.

Answer:

Cell's head being intact is a sufficient, NOT necessary, condition for his regeneration.

It's that simple folks.

Cell didn't seem to realize what his regeneration was capable of until after he came back from blowing himself up, so it doesn't seem like he's fully aware of why his body does things. My explanation is that while Piccolo couldn't regenerate from having a destroyed head, because that would kill him, Cell is capable of surviving from that kind of injury due to the Freeza cells within him. Remember how Freeza survived with big chunks of his head missing? Since it's not a fatal injury, Cell could recover from it.

If I were to get scientific on this, I'd guess that Freeza, and Cell, by default, have diffuse nervous systems and don't have a singular "brain" that can be targeted and destroyed. Kinda like how worms can survive after being cut in half. Piccolo couldn't regenerate from a shattered head because his brain, which is located in his head, would be destroyed, but Cell could because his brain wouldn't be located in his head; it would be located all throughout his body.

So this explanation is kinda like the one that the Funimation Dub gives, I guess. Each Cell holds the blueprint for regenerating Cell, because his "brain" is diffused throughout his entire body.

So basically, every cell in...well, Cell, has it's own brain.

[Kamiccolo9]

So basically, every cell in...well, Cell, has it's own brain.

Pretty much, I'd guess. Probably not a fully functioning organ, but they at least have "backup data" on him for when he is injured.

[thatdbzguy]

Yeah I did mention that earlier. I just think it slipped Toriyama's mind that both Piccolo and Kami should have saw Goku mimic the Solar Flare at the 23rd Budokai.

And yet some people still think I'm insane for saying DBZ has anything less than good writing.

How Toriyama could have messed up something so simple is truly a wonder.

[Hitiro]

Yeah I did mention that earlier. I just think it slipped Toriyama's mind that both Piccolo and Kami should have saw Goku mimic the Solar Flare at the 23rd Budokai.

Apparently there is a scene where Toriyama changes Yamchas hair style from bowl cut to spikey in the same page, but I havent seen it.

I don't think him being surprised by this means Toriyama forgot about the 23rd Budokai. A lot of people are taken back by Cells abilities even though they are very much aware of them. A prime example is Piccolo's regeneration ability when Vegeta blasts him or when Goku blasts him. He was probably more surprised that Cell used the Taiyoken to escape. Does it actually explicitly say he didn't know he had a technique like that?

[thatdbzguy]

Yeah I did mention that earlier. I just think it slipped Toriyama's mind that both Piccolo and Kami should have saw Goku mimic the Solar Flare at the 23rd Budokai.

Apparently there is a scene where Toriyama changes Yamchas hair style from bowl cut to spikey in the same page, but I havent seen it.

I don't think him being surprised by this means Toriyama forgot about the 23rd Budokai. A lot of people are taken back by Cells abilities even though they are very much aware of them. A prime example is Piccolo's regeneration ability when Vegeta blasts him or when Goku blasts him. He was probably more surprised that Cell used the Taiyoken to escape. Does it actually explicitly say he didn't know he had a technique like that?

Piccolo said he thought only Ten knew the move, despite seeing Goku do it before.

[Hitiro]

Piccolo said he thought only Ten knew the move, despite seeing Goku do it before.

That's fair enough. Seems like he did forget. It probably doesn't matter much but has anyone gone to check the page in Japanese to make sure it is translated correctly?

[thatdbzguy]

Looking back at the manga, Piccolo said "I thought that was Tenshinhan's maneuver!" if you want a direct quote.

[Zephyr]

If that's the case it could simply be a matter of him being shocked that somebody who didn't fight Tenshinhan (to witness and copy the move) was able to just use it.

[TheGmGoken]

In the Korean version of manga. The dialog goes
Piccolo: That's Ten attack!
Krillin: It's an easy attack to master. Goku did and me too

Doesn't seem plot hole to me. It's Ten attack. If Cell didn't know about rengeration which Piccolo used in the same Budokai then maybe Cell didn't know Goku did Tayioken as well. Piccolo knows its Ten attack as the announcers told him it was. So calling it Ten attack isn't a plot hole

[Kid Buu]

The inconsistency is that Piccolo is surprised someone besides Tenshinhan can use the Solar Flare, but both he and Kami saw Goku mimic the move tournament.