The height conundrum

[TheDevilsCorpse]

As I already said above, changes to the art over time do not matter to me. At all. Pretty much all the chatracters fluctuate over the course of the series. Vegeta gets a lot taller for example, and Kuririn shrinks a lot as he starts to move back into the background cast. Hell, Gohan shoots up in height based on proportions in just the few days from when he exits the RoSaT to when Goku names his as his replacement. I can't even begin to take that seriously, same with how Vegeta was like 4 foot tall in the beginning of the series and then 5'5" by the time it ends, when that's contradictory to a lot of information we have.

For me, the manga's art is just used to depict the events, though not all details are always accurate in regard to the character heights. Goku is always 5'9' as an adult and Vegeta is always 5'5" as an adult, no matter how they are drawn in the anime or manga. Characters we don't have official heights for? Those are a different story, because all we can do is guess and make comparisons.

[Attitudefan]

Except a lot of the official height lists were done after the fact and are more consistent thereafter. I have a hard time believing that Vegeta was intended to by 5'5 until the height listing was created much later. And ever since he has looked as such.

Like I said earlier too, even in the games is Vegeta shown to be different sizes from his Saiyan arc counterpart to his good guy petsonae.

[RandomGuy96]

Nitpick: Vegeta is 5'4.5. Bulma is 5'5 and taller than him.

That image reminds me of another from the anime:

Spoiler:

Again, the height relation between Nappa and Vegeta seems to have been kept. Nappa appears as not being THAT much taller than Ten. In this picture, I'm guessing the tallest people would roughly be...

Nappa: 6'10
Piccolo: 6'4
Tenshinhan: 6'1.75

While Krillin and Vegeta are unusually short and like 4 foot nothing in comparison. Again, that's just going off that image; I don't believe 6'4 was Piccolo's actual height in this arc.

Speaking of Ten, did anyone else notice that he was like seven and a half feet at the 23rd Budokai?

Spoiler:

Like I said earlier too, even in the games is Vegeta shown to be different sizes from his Saiyan arc counterpart to his good guy petsonae.

In-universe, I think the only person who grows is Piccolo, and maybe Goku (he was only 5'5-5'6 at the 23rd compared to Bulma and Chi Chi, when he was 18). Vegeta and some other characters just fluctuate based on their roles at the time. Vegeta was drawn tiny in the Saiyan arc to emphasize the big guy/little guy dynamic with Nappa, and tiny in the Freeza arc to be closer in size to Gohan and Krillin (who himself had been shrunken to basically the same height as the five year old).

Piccolo is barely taller than Goku at all at the 23rd Budokai, and around 6'3-6'6 in the Saiyan arc comparing him to Ten (group shots before fighting Nappa) and Goku (facing each other on Roshi's island). That's going purely by the manga. Past that point, I'm unsure of his pattern of growth, but he does become far larger.

[Attitudefan]

Thanks Random Guy! You said it better than I could.

Yeah, Ten is consistently that size throughout the 23rd through up to his death as being huge like that where Goku's head barely reaches Ten's shoulders. And to believe that the staff or Toriyama didn't think about their heights and throw out random numbers for heights is an absurd belief. Height charts prove otherwise. See the height chart for the Tree of Might. It corroborates with the fact that, for example, that Ten is a huge guy that could look closer to our over 7 feet.

The Nappa, Vegeta, Goku height dynamic remains the same years after the fact also allows us to deduce that Heights were not random.

Piccolo is for sure intended to grow I believe. Every arc he grows and looks and acts more mature. His whole design in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai looks small, an evil Goku counterpart if you will, similar in height, weight, stature, and skill.

In the Saiyan arc he had grown as a person, but physically also, which could metaphorically represent his growth as a character. This trend continues. In the Buu arc, his design is so far off from the original, especially in his face and stature. I mean, the dude is huge at that point and arguably is 7'5".

Same for Goku. When he is 18, he is Bulma's height, and still fairly small in size and doesn't look as muscular as he does in the next arc. He progressively ages. His face in the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai still is drawn as he was as a child and looks very different to say, the way Yamcha looks (since in dbz, their features and proportions are the same in the face save for the eyes and hair).

And these are consistent. Look through the panels and the characters share the same height ratios throughout. However, in each arc that follows does change happen.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Once again reiterating that main character art means nothing to me; I'm not going to look at the panels because they are irrelevant to my view of how the heights work here. I go by their official heights, which we've had for a good chunk of the Z Warriors all the way back in the Piccolo Daimao Arc, when we were given bios on Oolong, Roshi, Yamcha, Chaozu, Tenshinhan and Yajirobe in the Boken Special. They are the same then as they are for their post series bios in Daizenshu 7 and the Super Exciting Guide.

This tells us/me that these characters are supposed to remain the same height, regardless of if Toriyama starts drawing Tenshinhan and Yamcha equal in size or whatever. When combining that with the information we have on pure blooded Saiyans:

A.) The Jaco explanation on how Saiyans stay child-sized and then spurt into an adult sized body suited for fighting.
B.) The Super Exciting Guide's tidbit on them staying in their prime until they hit a certain age, then rapidly deteriorate.
C.) The many, many statements throughout the manga on how Saiyans never seem to change.

Well, it implies to me that regardless of what we see Toriyama depict in the art, in-universe, Goku and Vegeta's heights are supposed to be exactly what Toriyama gave us in the biographies from the moment they show up as adults until the series ends.

The obvious exceptions to these rules are character we don't have heights for, or character that aren't pure blooded Saiyans and are depicted growing over the course of the series, like Gohan. Piccolo could be another acceptable example, but I do prefer to just treat him the same as Vegeta, in that he's supposed to be full grown, but Toriyama just draws him the size he draws because that's what he wanted to do. This works well with the In the Name of Piccolo Daiamo side story, where Piccolo discusses how he became fully grown in just 3 years because of his demon side...though I think it has more to do with his reincarnation, personally,

[RandomGuy96]

The obvious exceptions to these rules are character we don't have heights for, or character that aren't pure blooded Saiyans and are depicted growing over the course of the series, like Gohan. Piccolo could be another acceptable example, but I do prefer to just treat him the same as Vegeta, in that he's supposed to be full grown, but Toriyama just draws him the size he draws because that's what he wanted to do. This works well with the In the Name of Piccolo Daiamo side story, where Piccolo discusses how he became fully grown in just 3 years because of his demon side...though I think it has more to do with his reincarnation, personally,

I disagree on Piccolo. Big Green is clearly not fully grown at the 23rd Budokai at the very least, which is apparent from more than just his height. His father appeared utterly gargantuan as a geezer, yet much smaller as a regular adult, indicating to me that Namekians keep growing.

I agree that Vegeta isn't supposed to be growing, since he's in his thirties when we first see him and no one comments on him growing a foot, but disagree on Goku. 23rd Budokai Goku wasn't Goku's fully grown/prime body yet, it was in the process. He's not only a few inches shorter than he is later, but also lighter and with younger facial features.

[Attitudefan]

I do think Vegeta's height was retconned later and that became the official for him despite what we see of him prior to that point.

[xmysticgohanx]

What are the official heights?

[RandomGuy96]

What are the official heights?

Check pages 1 and and 8.

[RandomGuy96]

Notable images relating to Piccolo's possible growth:

Piccolo-Goku comparison at the 23rd Budokai:

Spoiler:

He's barely taller than Goku, who is barely taller than Bulma and Chi Chi, even considering their footing.

Piccolo-Goku comparison during Raditz's arrival, five years after the 23rd Budokai:

Spoiler:

It seems Piccolo was around 6'7 during the Saiyan arc. He looks seven feet or more standing next to 2nd form Freeza though, even though not much time has passed in-universe... can anyone find a good comparison of those two in the manga? Because that shot with them staring each other down is anime-only IIRC. Maybe fusing with Nail made him grow at least half a foot, for some reason.

Piccolo-Goku comparison during the arrival of the androids, six years after Raditz:

Spoiler:

He's definitely standing over seven feet by the android arc. Probably 7'2 or so going by how he compares to Ten and Yamcha.

[Kid Buu]

I found this picture on my laptop today:



Thought I'd post it here, even if it is pretty obvious how these characters rank in height.

[RandomGuy96]

The above seems pretty consistent with official heights. Well, except Oolong; he's supposed to be 4'0, though I've yet to see any image that actually makes him look that tall, whereas we at least get a few images that have, say, Roshi being 5'5, or Chiaotzu being 4'6.

Anyway, dead topic, I know. But I just found a SUPER IMPORTANT piece of evidence relating to this discussion!

Do you remember Mou Kekko? Yes, THE Mou Kekko (also known was "Wild Tiger")? Come on, the big guy at the 28th Budokai? Turns out Daizenshuu 7 just randomly listed his height at 230 cm (7'6.5) in his short biography. I find it hilarious that he has an official height while several major characters like Freeza and Buu don't. Other heights are in the bios, but except for this one they're all taken from other sources.

[dbgtFO]

Do you remember Mou Kekko? Yes, THE Mou Kekko (also known was "Wild Tiger")? Come on, the big guy at the 28th Budokai? Turns out Daizenshuu 7 just randomly listed his height at 230 cm (7'6.5) in his short biography. I find it hilarious that he has an official height while several major characters like Freeza and Buu don't. Other heights are in the bios, but except for this one they're all taken from other sources.

Mou Kekko's height was stated by the announcer. That's why it features in his biography, not because they thought, he was more important to list than Freeza and Buu.

[RandomGuy96]

Do you remember Mou Kekko? Yes, THE Mou Kekko (also known was "Wild Tiger")? Come on, the big guy at the 28th Budokai? Turns out Daizenshuu 7 just randomly listed his height at 230 cm (7'6.5) in his short biography. I find it hilarious that he has an official height while several major characters like Freeza and Buu don't. Other heights are in the bios, but except for this one they're all taken from other sources.

Mou Kekko's height was stated by the announcer. That's why it features in his biography, not because they thought, he was more important to list than Freeza and Buu.

Oh, really? Never mind then.

Still, in general, I find it funny that we get so many heights for minor characters, yet a few major characters like Freeza and Buu don't have any.

[Attitudefan]

What I find interesting too is that Vegeta, Freeza, and kid Buu, all are roughly the same height at their most evil. Toriyama must hate short people! Even Krillin is the butt of every joke!

[RandomGuy96]

What I find interesting too is that Vegeta, Freeza, and kid Buu, all are roughly the same height at their most evil. Toriyama must hate short people! Even Krillin is the butt of every joke!

I'd say Pure Evil Buu is more evil than Pure Buu, and he was really tall. I mean really, it's in his name! Pure Buu + even more evil = Pure Evil Buu.

I don't know about that. All of the main supervillains have at least one form that's over seven feet tall (Daimao, Oozaru Vegeta, 2nd and 3rd form Freeza, Imperfect and Semi-Perfect Cell, Fat/Evil/Super Buu).

[RandomGuy96]

Thread resurrection because of new information:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... aphy-data/

So, some recently translated info gave a few more character heights. 16 year old Bulma is 163 cm (5'4), Launch is 159 cm (5'2.5), and 16 year old Yamcha is 181 cm (5'11.25). The most notable height here, however, is Ox-King. His height is listed as being over four meters (13'1+).

[Attitudefan]

Thread resurrection because of new information:

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/translations/ ... aphy-data/

So, some recently translated info gave a few more character heights. 16 year old Bulma is 163 cm (5'4), Launch is 159 cm (5'2.5), and 16 year old Yamcha is 181 cm (5'11.25). The most notable height here, however, is Ox-King. His height is listed as being over four meters (13'1+).

That's really interesting! Hmm, I guess I can see Ox-King at that height since he is as big as a house!

It's nice that Toriyama had details like that in Dragon Ball where people accuse Toriyama of being careless.

[dbgtFO]

Reviving this thread because of this:


As has already been discussed Vegeta is now much taller than Bulma(officially she is 1cm taller than him, less than ½ an inch!).
Gohan towers over his father.
Buff Roshi is almost as tall as Gohan.
Piccolo is as tall as Tagoma, but not quite as tall as Shisami.

[Attitudefan]

Vegeta went from a puny 5 feet, to 5 feet 5, and now he looks 5 feet 8 inches. I noticed he is about the same height as Goku was in the Saiyan arc.

It's so weird that they have Vegeta so tall now, and Bulma so short. Not only that, but all the females went from an average of 5'5" to just about 5'0" even. I almost feel like making the females so short is because of the moe era of anime, where most female characters in anime are tiny. If you look at older anime, the females were much larger, many being the size of the average western female, such as in the USA.

It actually really irks me how much bigger the male characters are compared to the females, and how much bigger Vegeta is overall. I liked that he was small. I liked that it made him look unique. Now... ugh. Everything IS streamlined (kinda like the artstyle can't even change, the characters must be like every other anime around). Having short protagonists seems like a 'no-no' in shonen anime. It's like males have to be taller than the females no matter what.

I find the 80's heights were more realistically distributed, similar to reality, than today. Now the males all have to be a head taller than their female counterparts. Hell, Goku was only 4 inches taller than Bulma, not even a full head, and now BUlma is the size of Krillin, and Krillin is the size of Chiaotzu! Seriously, Freeza remains the same in terms of ratio with Freeza, yet Vegeta is way taller than Freeza, when he was literally identical in height before!

Fuck, even Gohan is the height of Yamcha, when he clearly was way smaller before.

Spoiler:

It actually makes me mad. Vegeta's height is just ridiculous in Super. He should be no taller than golden Freeza in that chart. Literally, none of the females are taller than the main male protagonists (excluding Krillin). The shift in Bulma, Chi Chi, and Vegeta's height is just ridiculous. Chi Chi was also not much smaller than Goku, as we see in the wedding stuff from Dragonball. Bulma should be an inch taller than Chi Chi, where Bulma was past Goku's eyebrow region. Chi Chi's head went up to Goku's brow region in Dragonball for God's sake!!

In that chart you posted, Vegeta is what Bulma use to be, and Bulma is roughly what Vegeta use to be. Why change it? Why?

Spoiler:

Chichi and Bulma remain practically the same in the photo above since the 23rd Tenkaichi Budokai! So when and why did things get inconsistent later??

Chichi and Bulma remain the same height from here to the Broly film chart. Chichi looks slightly shorter in the one above this text, but he legs are farther apart and her feet are not parallel with Bulma's; however, if you correct it, she is the same as the image below and the Broly height chart image. It was consistent. Both ladies are around Goku's brow region all the way from 1988 to 1993.

Again, somewhere down the line, Yamamuro decided the females were way shorter...

Spoiler:

These are the correct heights of the male characters, until something changed in the Cell/Buu arc. As you can see, Piccolo and Goku's ratio remains the same from the late 80s till 1993 at least. However, Krillin shrunk. Yet, most of the other heights are consistent to Goku such as Gohan. He's practically identical from movie 3 to movie 8.

Spoiler:

Vegeta to Freeza; something is wrong in modern DB.... Who decided to change it when it was consistent for a long period of time. The change seems to have happened in the Buu arc when the designs got a massive overhaul. However, the adult heights were relatively consistent with minor differences but only by a difference of about an inch (which, in universe, we could attribute to footwear as a writ-off). However, the modern heights are just so different, that I do not know why the decision was made to change them. Obviously they had those reference sheets throughout production, so why change them? I know the Buu arc was promoted to have a massive art direction in Japan, but changing heights had to have been a conscious decision, and a weird one at that.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

This is the problem.

This was what it was:

Spoiler: