Canonically weaker characters in DBZ vs games

[GS7X7]

How do canonically weaker characters usually stack up in games like the various Tenkaichi ones?

I never played as EVERY character in the games I did play (quite an undertaking!) but I'm curious if guys who were "weaker" in the series (Videl, Yamucha, Kurillin, Bardock, Radditz, Nappa, etc.) or just not quite as popular (Cell Jr.) can ever stack up to the big enemies.

I tend to suspect it's designed so any character can play decently or good with enough effort and energy invested in them, but I'm curious what some of the more experienced/hardcore DBZ gamers think of this.

I can confirm that Tenshinhan was a fairly tough character, I played him obsessively in the 2nd Tenkaichi game of the series. I don't know if he's the strongest but he did get me through quite a few jams.

[Flopro18]

Yamcha in Yamcha game is pretty difficult but characters like Videl won't pose much challenges to an experience player using higher tier fighters. Tenkaichi games aren't balanced so those low tier fighters don't tend to do that well. Maybe if the player is really good, but for casuals, nah.

[GS7X7]

Yamcha in Yamcha game is pretty difficult but characters like Videl won't pose much challenges to an experience player using higher tier fighters. Tenkaichi games aren't balanced so those low tier fighters don't tend to do that well. Maybe if the player is really good, but for casuals, nah.

Sounds like a challenge to me- winning the 2nd game with Videl. A weak character can be lame or a challenge and a way of forcing you to learn the fundamental mechanics more precisely.

How does Mr. Satan stack up usually? Is he usually weak or does his arsenal of "cheat moves" actually make one of the toughest guys around?

[Flopro18]

Yamcha in Yamcha game is pretty difficult but characters like Videl won't pose much challenges to an experience player using higher tier fighters. Tenkaichi games aren't balanced so those low tier fighters don't tend to do that well. Maybe if the player is really good, but for casuals, nah.

How does Mr. Satan stack up usually? Is he usually weak or does his arsenal of "cheat moves" actually make one of the toughest guys around?

If his attacks work he could be useful, if they don't and they give 1 damage, then you're screwed to no end against a SSJ2 or above. His moves are kind of like gambles sometimes. Sometimes they work and sometimes they don't

[ZeroAnnihilated]

It really depends on how well you know the mechanics of the game as well as the character's attacks. During my experience of Tenkaichi 2 combat, there were a lot of challenges being thrown left and right, which required the participants to discover a new understanding of how the game can work, depending on the strategy being used. I don't want to bring up a "depth" argument, but the fact that characters vary in so many ways in the game that people don't consider really does add depth and further strategic understanding of the game. For example, LSSJ Broly... some characters may be able to inflict damage upon him with basic melee, but such melee has no physical effect, at least within the base combo set. A player like Mr. Satan may attempt to attack SSJ4 Gogeta and inflict damage, but his melee will have not physical effect. This forces the player to consider options that aren't presented at face value. One example: Hercule's base melee doesn't physically affect a Great Ape AND his Present Bomb Blast 2 does not affect the Great Ape either. So how does Mr. Satan win against a Great Ape?

Challenge presented July 29, 2009
1. Hardest Difficulty
2. Much choose Mr. Satan
3. Must face 5 Great Apes
4. Cannot add health/defense+# items

This challenge was eventually completed with a perfect.

Ultimately, there is a variety of different combat styles in fighting games, some directly relating to the characters, some relating more to the player's preference. Characters of face value may try to relate to the power chain exhibited in the show (example, everyone is to believe that SSJ4 Gogeta is the best character, period). Well, when I first played T2, I thought the same. The speed and power was incredible. However, as my understanding of T2 combat evolved, face value holds less and less merit. SSJ4 Gogeta is still fun to use, for sure... but if I were to get serious and take someone out, he wouldn't be my top choice.

[GS7X7]

It really depends on how well you know the mechanics of the game as well as the character's attacks. During my experience of Tenkaichi 2 combat, there were a lot of challenges being thrown left and right, which required the participants to discover a new understanding of how the game can work, depending on the strategy being used. I don't want to bring up a "depth" argument, but the fact that characters vary in so many ways in the game that people don't consider really does add depth and further strategic understanding of the game. For example, LSSJ Broly... some characters may be able to inflict damage upon him with basic melee, but such melee has no physical effect, at least within the base combo set. A player like (the H-word) may attempt to attack SSJ4 Gogeta and inflict damage, but his melee will have not physical effect. This forces the player to consider options that aren't presented at face value. One example: (the H-word)'s base melee doesn't physically affect a Great Ape AND his Present Bomb Blast 2 does not affect the Great Ape either. So how does (the H-word) win against a Great Ape?

Challenge presented July 29, 2009
1. Hardest Difficulty
2. Much choose (the H-word)
3. Must face 5 Great Apes
4. Cannot add health/defense+# items

This challenge was eventually completed with a perfect.

Ultimately, there is a variety of different combat styles in fighting games, some directly relating to the characters, some relating more to the player's preference. Characters of face value may try to relate to the power chain exhibited in the show (example, everyone is to believe that SSJ4 Gogeta is the best character, period). Well, when I first played T2, I thought the same. The speed and power was incredible. However, as my understanding of T2 combat evolved, face value holds less and less merit. SSJ4 Gogeta is still fun to use, for sure... but if I were to get serious and take someone out, he wouldn't be my top choice.

There's someone better than Godgeta?

Who's that?

[ZeroAnnihilated]

There's someone better than Godgeta?

Who's that?

It's not that one would consider who is better than Gogeta, but who you are better at using. Some players may use SSJ4 Gogeta and absolutely crush their friends. However, as people gain experience, their styles may grow and evolve. Strategies change with the evolution of technical/mechanical discoveries.

Personally (and I've said this for years now, lol), I know how dangerous SSJ4 Gogeta is. So there's always the value of convincing your opponent that you DON'T know how dangerous Gogeta is... but the truth of the matter is that I believe SSJ Kid Trunks is far superior to SSJ4 Gogeta once you consider the options. Again, this is only based on my experience. No one else here may feel the same way and that's 100% fine AND that's the beauty of it. The fact that I can feel that SSJ Kid Trunks is the optimal character to SSJ4 Gogeta is enough to prove my point.

[GS7X7]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z6xRBV4Hovg

I always play as Justin Beiber when I want to take down Gogeta.

[Dbzfan94]

I'm actually really good with Krillin, Tien, Mr Satan, and even Pan.

Piccolo is actually my best character (yeah i know he's really strong by Cell saga standards but still). I can beat SSJ4 Gogeta really easily with him lol

[KentalSSJ6]

I took out Super Vegetto on the hardest difficulty with a Saibamen in RB2 once. Take that how you will.

[Dbzk1999]

I took out Super Vegetto on the hardest difficulty with a Saibamen in RB2 once. Take that how you will.

I was about to say REALLY? Then I saw the rb2
Try beating kid buu in budokai 2 (or buutenks) on the hardest difficulty (in story mode) or great ape vegeta in bt1 (only time I had I spam in dbz)

[BlazingFiddlesticks]

^ With or without Senzu Beans? You'd be surprised as what you're capable of when you effectively double your life bars.

Well, its common knowledge that the only thing that matters in the Budokai games in regards to character powers in the story proper is transformations, whether their stunning potential in the numbered Budokai games (and possible Infinite World, not sure), the altered special attacks in the Shin Budokai games, and the stat boosts they give in both games. So I do not think that is what is being asked here.

On Tenkaichi games, Zero is right, for all the flak about basic melee combos working almost exactly the same for most characters, everything else is different. An easy one from Tenkaichi 3; King Piccolo has the paralyzing Kaisosen as a Blast 1 and the super-fast forward-flying Somasen as a Blast 2. Both a fantastic moves at what they do, one being a guard-breaking combo starter/extender/Blast setup and the other being a super-duper fast beam that knockdowns without fail. Are Syn/Omega Shenron and Super Saiyan 4's, without Wild Sense enabled, just as afraid of those things as Radditz or Nappa? You bet they are, because none of those characters like being paralyzed or toppled before they knew what hit them. You'd have to play smart to beat a GT character with King Piccolo because of the wide differences in their base stats, but that does not stop King Piccolo from having great options against the number-strongest characters in the game.

Inversely, look at SS4 Gogeta; highest base stats in the game, melee attacks resolve crazy fast, best Rush Blast 2 in the game, and a great defensive and offensive Blast 1. But then both of his Blast 1's are 3-stockers, so he lacks quick defenses like Explosive Wave or getting around powering-up his large base ki with something like Full Power Charge, and two of his attacking Blasts are easily-dodged beams that require melee setup to consistently hit human players. Or a more subtle one, Tenkaichi 3, not sure about 2, Kid Buu's Instant Transmission is 3-stocks: everyone else's is 2. Three guesses as to why..

The actual damage scaling the games employ to maintain some semblance of the show's power differences are not much of an issue once customization comes in and characters start maxing out their defenses.