Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
Although I don't believe Chaozu could destroy the planet, I must disagree with you, rancor, as Chaozu is much stronger than you say.
RancorSnp wrote:I know that that they did train a lot, there is really no proof that he didn't reach the maximum power level that was possible for him. Even if he did exceed the human limits few times over, his power level at the end of the series probably wouldn't be stronger than 400 which would be over a god level for a human, but far from reaching planet destroying levels.
(I'd say he is probably somewhere in between 100 and 150)
That is a gross, gross understatement. You do realize that Chaozu trained with Kaio, correct? I'm pretty sure you'd have to seriously try not to become stronger while on Kaio's planet (especially with that 10x gravity thing he's got going on). He also sparred with Piccolo while training with Kaio, and was able to hold it together. No one could even hope to do as well against Piccolo with a power level of 400.
Also, Daizenshuu 7 flat out says Chaozu's power level is 610 before fighting Nappa. I think that's really all you need.
Last edited by Super SaiyaJon on Tue Sep 30, 2014 6:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Kakacarrottop wrote:
That's the problem with the "Dragon Ball" fanbase, it's too divided. There's "FUNimation fanboys", "Kai fanboys", "Ocean fanboys", "Japanese fanboys", we need to stop attacking each other and realize we're all fans of the same thing.
Saiga wrote:Gandalf: Many that live deserve death. And some that die deserve life. Can you give it to them?
RandomGuy96 wrote:
They're only different in that they're more powerful. At the level of, say, the Ginyu Force, it doesn't matter whether or not they're using a regular ki blast or a special, amplified attack. Vegeta's Galick Gun, with a power of 24,000, could destroy the Earth. The ONLY thing preventing Earth from being destroyed every time someone throws a punch or blast is that the fighters willingly condense their attacks for more effectiveness, letting the energy only harm the target in a very small area.
How is condensing making anything more effective? A larger blast radius with the same power is better than a minor one. Especially when villains use it. You'd think they'd use city/country sized blasts if it were that simple so then they can catch their enemies in the explosion.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
RandomGuy96 wrote:
They're only different in that they're more powerful. At the level of, say, the Ginyu Force, it doesn't matter whether or not they're using a regular ki blast or a special, amplified attack. Vegeta's Galick Gun, with a power of 24,000, could destroy the Earth. The ONLY thing preventing Earth from being destroyed every time someone throws a punch or blast is that the fighters willingly condense their attacks for more effectiveness, letting the energy only harm the target in a very small area.
How is condensing making anything more effective? A larger blast radius with the same power is better than a minor one. Especially when villains use it. You'd think they'd use city/country sized blasts if it were that simple so then they can catch their enemies in the explosion.
Because that wouldn't be as effective. It's the difference between being under rain and getting sprayed with a fire hose.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote:
They're only different in that they're more powerful. At the level of, say, the Ginyu Force, it doesn't matter whether or not they're using a regular ki blast or a special, amplified attack. Vegeta's Galick Gun, with a power of 24,000, could destroy the Earth. The ONLY thing preventing Earth from being destroyed every time someone throws a punch or blast is that the fighters willingly condense their attacks for more effectiveness, letting the energy only harm the target in a very small area.
How is condensing making anything more effective? A larger blast radius with the same power is better than a minor one. Especially when villains use it. You'd think they'd use city/country sized blasts if it were that simple so then they can catch their enemies in the explosion.
Because that wouldn't be as effective. It's the difference between being under rain and getting sprayed with a fire hose.
Considering how most minor ki blasts are used mostly for keeping the pressure on someone rather than being a big finish, it'd probably be better to not condense your attacks so the opponent has less room to move. Especially if you can fire said blasts in succession, you can light up countries all over the place rather than condensing a blast that almost always misses. A spread out ki blast from higher power levels would devastate.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Apparently not, since it is rarely done. The opponent has the WHOLE PLANET to evade after all. Do you remember what Raditz said about the SBC and Kamehameha?
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Apparently not, since it is rarely done. The opponent has the WHOLE PLANET to evade after all. Do you remember what Raditz said about the SBC and Kamehameha?
Is anyone even fast enough to dodge that kind of fire...I dunno. Everyone is almost always confined to a single canyon, so nuke the damn canyon with heavy blasts a ton of times.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
That would probably waste a lot of ki while not doing much damage. If you spread a Kamehameha out to cover 100 times its usual area with the same actual power, it will likely not be that strong. The same damage is stretched ridiculously.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
RandomGuy96 wrote:That would probably waste a lot of ki while not doing much damage. If you spread a Kamehameha out to cover 100 times its usual area with the same actual power, it will likely not be that strong. The same damage is stretched ridiculously.
It's using the same amount of ki without taking the time to condense it. These are for minor attacks mainly used to slow down and chip away at vitality, rather than finish someone off. I think it takes more effort to condense over to just let loose with the explosions. Firing city nuking blasts that Daimao does should be easy for people way above him, yet no one does that.
Also didn't Piccolo casually destroy the moon? Why don't all the bad guys just casually use that destructive power, like they care about the planets well being.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
RandomGuy96 wrote:That would probably waste a lot of ki while not doing much damage. If you spread a Kamehameha out to cover 100 times its usual area with the same actual power, it will likely not be that strong. The same damage is stretched ridiculously.
It's using the same amount of ki without taking the time to condense it. These are for minor attacks mainly used to slow down and chip away at vitality, rather than finish someone off. I think it takes more effort to condense over to just let loose with the explosions. Firing city nuking blasts that Daimao does should be easy for people way above him, yet no one does that.
Also didn't Piccolo casually destroy the moon? Why don't all the bad guys just casually use that destructive power, like they care about the planets well being.
Think about it, a ki blast with an explosion that spreads out over 100m or whatever, would use more energy than a ki blast spread out over 10m even though they both have the same destructive energy.
Canon is Jaco, Dragon Ball except for EoZ, Dragon Ball Super anime and manga (both are separate canons)
Kai >>> Z
Current Roshi/Kulilin >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> SSJ3 Gotenks
RandomGuy96 wrote:That would probably waste a lot of ki while not doing much damage. If you spread a Kamehameha out to cover 100 times its usual area with the same actual power, it will likely not be that strong. The same damage is stretched ridiculously.
It's using the same amount of ki without taking the time to condense it. These are for minor attacks mainly used to slow down and chip away at vitality, rather than finish someone off. I think it takes more effort to condense over to just let loose with the explosions. Firing city nuking blasts that Daimao does should be easy for people way above him, yet no one does that.
Also didn't Piccolo casually destroy the moon? Why don't all the bad guys just casually use that destructive power, like they care about the planets well being.
Think about it, a ki blast with an explosion that spreads out over 100m or whatever, would use more energy than a ki blast spread out over 10m even though they both have the same destructive energy.
No it wouldn't. It takes more control and effort to condense a ki attack then to just let your blasts run wild without effort. Again I point out that Piccolo casually busted the moon, so anyone way stronger should be able to throw moon busting destruction all over earth with barely any strain at all.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.