mAcChaos wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Wait, why does everyone have a problem with SS3 Vegeta again? I haven't been able to keep up lately, and the arguement about this is huge.
Because we never saw anyone gain SSJ3 from a rage boost but from years and years of training (while being dead) or fusion. That and the Vegeta we know from the real series should have gotten it a long time ago then, if all it took was getting mad and desperate, like against Fat Buu.
RandomGuy96 wrote:DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Wait, why does everyone have a problem with SS3 Vegeta again? I haven't been able to keep up lately, and the arguement about this is huge.
Because SS3 is shown to be obtained via training, not rage. Plus, Vegeta isn't even enraged here, he's just whining that people are stronger than him, and desperate from getting beaten up by mini-Cell. If that was all someone needed to go SS3, the main timeline Vegeta would have transformed against fatso or Pure Buu.
What rage boost? He simply got angry, and forcibly tried to transform, and there is nothing saying that he hasn't done any training, in fact, it's the opposite, since he has Super Saiyan 2. Goku & Gotenks most likely did the same thing, except that they didn't get angry on top of it. Vegeta getting angry merely makes it easier for him to transform, since anger always helps in these things.
And since when did the Goku being dead, or Gotenks being a Fusion had anything to do with it? Goku simply got strong enough to do it through training, and Gotenks was already strong enough since day 1.
As for U18 Vegeta, he didn't have it in the start of Boo arc because he never even imagined its existance, and he didn't get it afterwards in DBM because he doesn't want to, since it has too many drawbacks.
Also, this is just a personal opinion of mine, but even if it didn't technically contradict anything in the manga (and I think it does), I still wouldn't look like because I would just think it's a stupid fan theory, like SS transformations being "tiers", SS3 lasting five seconds if you're strong enough, and Gotenks suddenly being as strong as Super Vegetto solely because he has an adult body.
I won't disagree in all these, these are stupid, but this has nothing to do with it. Unless we learn later that Vegeta wasn't training, I don't see any issue here.
TonyTheTiger wrote:There's never been any consistency with the transformations. Everything we're told about Goku's original transformation against Freeza and all that "pure heart" bullshit goes out the window with Vegeta. And anything that suggested the transformation had very specific requirements or was special in any way whatsoever is completely forgotten with Gohan, who just brute forces his way there, and especially Goten and Trunks, who can do it because reasons. Gohan's inner power finally comes out in the form of Super Saiyan 2 and everyone sees it as this special thing but then both Goku and Vegeta learn to do it offscreen at some point, presumably just by training a lot. Why would Super Saiyan 3 be any different? It always follows the same pattern. Someone busts out a transformation, everyone is like "this is sooper dooper special!" and then everyone forgets about that last part and duplicates it through "lulz training!"
Goku never says anything about pure heart, he says that Super Saiyan requires
tranquil heart. Vegeta, according to himself, had tranquil & pure evil heart when he transformed, so apparently, he was just pure evil up until Freeza arc.
Gohan filled all the requirements for Super Saiyan: he had a high enough battle power, he had a tranquil heart, and he got very angry.
Goten & Trunks are an exception, they were already born with the ability to transform according to Daizenshuu 4, because they belong to the tail-less generation of Saiyan Halflings.
And as for Super Saiyan 2, Gohan, Goku, and Vegeta, all of them did hard training to reach it. Gohan just happened to accidentally achieve it by getting angry, because he wasn't aiming for it while he was training.
There is nothing incosistent with the Super Saiyan forms, and there is no issue so far with this SS3 Vegeta.
