Unpopular DB opinions

[Attitudefan]

The 23rd Budokai was the arc most guilty of "Goku wank" in my opinion. To me that was one the supporting cast was most redundant. That arc and maybe the Daimao arc too.

I disagree. While yeah, Goku made everyone not look as cool, the supporting cast still redeemed themselves with their new techniques, specifically Yamcha's fight against God, Krillin learns to fly and takes a massive beating yet still surprises Piccolo; actually, Ten looks the worst for wear in this arc to be honest.

But all in all, all of the characters had great fights. I do wish they could have done more against Piccolo.

[rereboy]

The 23rd Budokai was the arc most guilty of "Goku wank" in my opinion. To me that was one the supporting cast was most redundant. That arc and maybe the Daimao arc too.

Couldn't disagree more. Everybody looked good in that arc, had stuff to do and had moments to shine.

[Cetra]

I agree about Tenshinhan. He was the Goku show-off dummy in the Tournament. The battle let them look on par for a moment just to show how wrong we are with believing so, and that was obvious as we expect Goku to come back as Superman after such a long time. Tenshinhan was always the guy I thought of as unfortunate whenever a chance for a good moment was left out. I like him and Yamchu the most of the humans.

[rereboy]

I would agree if Tenshinhan had been taken out with one hit or very easily. He wasn't. Just because he lost since Goku was superior, it doesn't mean that he didn't give Goku a good and interesting fight or that he was a show-off dummy.

[Cetra]

The battle would have been interesting if Goku actually would have given himself the limits to fight with as much power as Tenshinhan with only skill being relevant for the outcome -and I am not so sure if Goku would have won that battle (or at least easily) because except his "I need my eyes to see you" weakness Tenshinhan was a very skilled fighter at that time - but instead it was more like a tribute to their last battle before Piccolo showed up for the first time with Goku finally playing the Freezer "this is not even my full power/final form" card. Just as Piccolo did against Kuririn. Not that it was totally comparable. Piccolo was way better than Kuririn. Goku compared to Tenshinhan, however was actually way stronger, too. A close battle with his power held back all the time might have been better.

And yes, Tenshinhan was a dummy. It is like acting as if you are on par with someone and then later you prove how much more powerful you actually are which means you were just toying around. Goku fighting seriously and not showinng his true power would have been been way better as it gave Tenshinhan an actual chance. The way it was made was just like "well, I just fight on your level as long as necessary but I am actually better so I use my actual power and show that you are actually nothing". We already knew he was stronger. Tenshinhan was nothing like the guy to show how powerful Goku has actually become. A fair battle with fighting seriously on Tenshinhan's level would have been more appopriate and him showing his power against Piccolo then. Tenshinhan then would not have been used as dummy to show Goku's true power but at least as a fair challenge. And that it was not fair does not mean it was not entertaining in some parts.

[rereboy]

I fail to see the point of anyone who actually did not expect Goku to win... What, Tenshinhan would fight Piccolo and be the hero...? Of course not. The outcome was never in question. What matters is: was the fight good? Interesting? Did Tenshinhan get to shine? Did it have good art? Did it have strategy and new techniques? Its yes on all counts.

And Goku holding back at exactly the same level as Tenshinhan? Why? Its WAY better to have Goku actually fight seriously with him and see for ourselves that Tenshinhan can still provide him with a good fight than have them be pretty balanced and then Goku proclaiming after the fight was done that it was a good fight but he was only fighting on Tenshinhan's level on purpose. Kind of like Tenshinhan was beneath his efforts or something. The way it was done was far more interesting and honest than that and made Tenshinhan look much better that otherwise.

[Kid Buu]

The 23rd Budokai was the arc most guilty of "Goku wank" in my opinion. To me that was one the supporting cast was most redundant. That arc and maybe the Daimao arc too.

Couldn't disagree more. Everybody looked good in that arc, had stuff to do and had moments to shine.

The problem is that its mostly superfluous. The 22nd Budokai did a better job of using its characters if you ask me. For example Jackie Chun may be outclassed strength-wise, but he still plays a big role in the story.

[Doctor.]

The 22nd Budokai arc is the worst arc in my opinion. Not to say it's bad, it's still good, just not as good as the others.

[Attitudefan]

Funny that I brought that up about Ten, but it's actually one of my favorite anime and manga fights in the whole series along with Yamcha against Ten.

I did say Ten looked the worst in the arc but the worst in that arc still makes everyone look exceptional. The Saiyan arc in the Manga buried the characters save for Goku and his son. The anime gave the characters to shine, especially Ten.

[Nikkolas]

The best thing about the World Martial Arts Tournaments was that they tended to make everyone look good. Yes, even Yamcha.

It's why I love them and why the 22nd Budokai is one of my favorite arcs in the whole series.

[FortuneSSJ]

The second best thing about the Tenkaichi Budokai is that being the main character means nothing.
If it was a cliche shounen, Goku would have won the three times.

Its the second, because the best thing is the soundtrack!
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhScFOYNEoM

[ABED]

I agree about Tenshinhan. He was the Goku show-off dummy in the Tournament. The battle let them look on par for a moment just to show how wrong we are with believing so, and that was obvious as we expect Goku to come back as Superman after such a long time. Tenshinhan was always the guy I thought of as unfortunate whenever a chance for a good moment was left out. I like him and Yamchu the most of the humans.

He wasn't a dummy, he still has his moments in that arc, and there's nothing wrong in any given story if one character takes the bulk of the spotlight.

[singsing]

The best thing about the World Martial Arts Tournaments was that they tended to make everyone look good. Yes, even Yamcha.

It's why I love them and why the 22nd Budokai is one of my favorite arcs in the whole series.

Even Yamcha? I feel like they pretty much specifically targeted him to be the joke during those arcs.

[Kid Buu]

I'd say he served a role in the early parts of the 22nd Budokai, being a rival to Tenshinhan who does a good "job" show us what a prick Tenshinhan is. He didn't really have any real relevance in the 23rd.

[Saiga]

He gets headbutted in the fucking nuts and mocked by the entire audience who think it's his fault. The 23rd Budokai did not make him look good just because he hit a (restrained) God once ineffectively.

[rereboy]

He gets headbutted in the fucking nuts and mocked by the entire audience who think it's his fault. The 23rd Budokai did not make him look good just because he hit a (restrained) God once ineffectively.

He was praised by GOD as amazing and he could even surprise GOD and hit him with an attack that sent GOD flying. And, at that tournament, GOD was stronger than Tenshinhan at that tournament. And yet, you think he doesn't look good? Even the audience shut up once they realized how good Yamcha's opponent was.

The problem is that its mostly superfluous. The 22nd Budokai did a better job of using its characters if you ask me. For example Jackie Chun may be outclassed strength-wise, but he still plays a big role in the story.

Superfluous why? Because Goku was stronger? If that's your definition, then you must not consider anything relevant except what involves the strongest guy around. And even though Jackie didn't participate, Kami participated and he was essential to the developments of the tournament and the stakes. So, I don't see how we lost anything, especially since Roshi's character arc was already finished with his conclusion at the last tournament and his fight with Piccolo.

[Kid Buu]

There's no connection between Yamcha and Kami and no real developments come out of the fight. It simply just exists to take up a tournament spot, which is why I called it superfluous in the first place.

[Saiga]

He gets headbutted in the fucking nuts and mocked by the entire audience who think it's his fault. The 23rd Budokai did not make him look good just because he hit a (restrained) God once ineffectively.

He was praised by GOD as amazing and he could even surprise GOD and hit him with an attack that sent GOD flying. And, at that tournament, GOD was stronger than Tenshinhan at that tournament. And yet, you think he doesn't look good? Even the audience shut up once they realized how good Yamcha's opponent was.

God's praise is pretty damn hollow, Yamcha did nothing impressive. He surprised God because the attack could be controlled, and God really didn't expect anything from it... which really doesn't look great for God, because that was far from a clever trick. God was knocked back, but completely unphazed, and Yamcha was immediately taken out.

On top of that, God wasn't even at his full strength due to the human body, and didn't even realize the extent of how much it held him back until he fought Piccolo. So he didn't even try to use of all the restricted power he had against Yamcha.

The audience shut up, sure... because of how good God was.

[rereboy]

There's no connection between Yamcha and Kami and no real developments come out of the fight. It simply just exists to take up a tournament spot, which is why I called it superfluous in the first place.

Except an interesting fight with interesting strategy/techniques and even an opportunity for two more secondary characters to shine. All in all, pretty much everything that later arcs lacked.

God's praise is pretty damn hollow, Yamcha did nothing impressive. He surprised God because the attack could be controlled, and God really didn't expect anything from it... which really doesn't look great for God, because that was far from a clever trick. God was knocked back, but completely unphazed, and Yamcha was immediately taken out.

On top of that, God wasn't even at his full strength due to the human body, and didn't even realize the extent of how much it held him back until he fought Piccolo. So he didn't even try to use of all the restricted power he had against Yamcha.

The audience shut up, sure... because of how good God was.

"God's praise is pretty damn hollow". Well considering that he is... well, god... and that he was the most powerful fighter on the planet just a few years prior (stronger than Piccolo Daimao), I will just let you reflect for a moment on your own sentence.

So, Yamcha is recognized by god as amazing, the entity that most humans pray to and that was the most powerful fighter on Earth just a few years prior, and Yamcha is even able to surprise him in fighting ability and send him flying... and Yamcha looks bad? Right... Not impressive at all...

Also, Kami's human form didn't restrict him that much, he was able to have a good fight with Piccolo and only complained about the human form when Piccolo was able to reverse the Mafuba.

[Saiga]

"God's praise is pretty damn hollow". Well considering that he is... well, god... and that he was the most powerful fighter on the planet just a few years prior (stronger than Piccolo Daimao), I will just let you reflect for a moment on your own sentence.

So, Yamcha is recognized by god as amazing, the entity that most humans pray to and that was the most powerful fighter on Earth just a few years prior, and Yamcha is even able to surprise him in fighting ability and send him flying... and Yamcha looks bad? Right... Not impressive at all...

Also, Kami's human form didn't restrict him that much, he was able to have a good fight with Piccolo and only complained about the human form when Piccolo was able to reverse the Mafuba.

It really doesn't matter how important God is, because he praised Yamcha for doing fuck all. Being strong doesn't necessarily mean you have high standards. He praised one technique of Yamcha that was completely unimpressive. If Toriyama was intending to show that Yamcha was impressive through God, he failed.

God just comes across as being extremely generous with his praise.