Ocean/Funimation UK dub inconsistencies and facts

[NinjaGoku]

There are some points about the UK broadcast of DBZ that have been undocumented so I thought I'd write these inconsistencies down to see if anyone remembers or before I forget. There were a few interesting points about the broadcast and some things that were off about what people are saying:

• They switched between the Funimation and Ocean dub infrequently. I think once during during the Buu saga on CNX that they switched to Funimation briefly, but the only instance I am certain of there being a Funimation dub was when new episodes of the Great Saiyaman saga began airing beginning Jap #195, maybe 194. This was for a short period. You could notice because of the new soundtrack, voice actors, etc... however there was one thing that was very odd about the premiere....

• The first 5 episodes Cartoon Network/CNX aired (Can't remember which channel at the time) of the above mentioned saga were VERY bad copies. The first 5 premiered episodes that ran Monday to Friday there was scrolling text at the bottom of the screen apologizing for the quality of the episodes and how they were working to fix it. Now the quality was really bad, I had no idea why they bothered to air them, quality was like that of a bootleg with bad audio, grainy fuzzy picture. It could have been a bad conversion from NTSC to PAL, but I really don't know. No one seems to remember this but I remember it being a big deal at the time because they were supposedly 'new' episodes.
  
  EDIT: Okay so it was the first 2 episodes that had this problem, and it was the Ocean dub not the Funimation dub, my memory from then is bad, thread with information can be seen here: http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=20052

• When new episodes aired, on weekdays they would air the previous episode at 5.00pm and the new episode at 5.30pm, then in the morning (at I think 7.00, 7.30am) they would show those same two episodes. There was a major screw-up during the Ocean Fusion saga where during the morning they forgot to air the previous episode first, instead they had 2 new episodes every morning during the week for a short period, this meant 10 new episodes during the week for the morning whereas the afternoon (5.30pm) 'premieres' had already been aired! This was around the time of the Gotenks fights, before school I was all over that.

• During the Funimation Frieza saga they edited out "piss-off the" from Dende saying "don't piss-off the god of love". We speculated and speculated at the time, we were certain he used the f-word! Was this edited too in America? http://youtu.be/nqhO-ciBO0Y

• There was a funny inconsistency during the Ocean dub where they edited out a scene of an Android smashing someones head into a car, I only knew it was edited because they revealed it on the recap the next episode.

• They edited out the scene where Super Buu went into the port-a-potty farting everywhere, was it really that offensive? Those AB Groupe masters ocean received were censored in an odd way.

• For the Westwood Ocean soundtrack not only did Dragon Ball Z share the same soundtrack as Megaman and Monster Rancher, but also Hamtaro.

• Years later the UK received most of the movies from AB Groupe, the bad big green dubs, but seriously where were the edits? Wieners everywhere at 5.00pm, it makes me wonder if anyone at Tuner was really paying attention. I mean, DBZ was the first time they would have had to consider different versions of English dubs, masters, etc on Cartoon Network's channels. How would they have know the difference?

It's a shame none of this was captured on television years back. I also would have liked to see how far the edited the DB Blue Water dub, but I can't find any rips anywhere. I can't imagine many fans who watched those premieres over 10 years ago still lurk, but hopefully someone remembers. Please share anymore interesting facts about the UK broadcast, what should have been straightforward ended up being an odd roller-coaster ride!

[NitroEX]

The first 5 episodes Cartoon Network/CNX aired (Can't remember which channel at the time) of the above mentioned saga were VERY bad copies. The first 5 premiered episodes that ran Monday to Friday there was scrolling text at the bottom of the screen apologizing for the quality of the episodes and how they were working to fix it. Now the quality was really bad, I had no idea why they bothered to air them, quality was like that of a bootleg with bad audio, grainy fuzzy picture. It could have been a bad conversion from NTSC to PAL, but I really don't know. No one seems to remember this but I remember it being a big deal at the time because they were supposedly 'new' episodes.

I do vaguely remember something like this but at the same time I'm not sure. It's so many years ago now so my memory is fuzzy.

Years later the UK received most of the movies from AB Groupe, the bad big green dubs, but seriously where were the edits? Wieners everywhere at 5.00pm, it makes me wonder if anyone at Tuner was really paying attention. I mean, DBZ was the first time they would have had to consider different versions of English dubs, masters, etc on Cartoon Network's channels. How would they have know the difference?[/list]

When it comes to a lot of the Z edits my theory is that some of the footage was cut because the Ocean (Westwood) dub shared the same footage as the Funimation one which was probably to save time and keep up with the tight schedule. Both Funimation & Ocean dubs used the same footage and title cards until Ocean overtook them and started using French footage with new title cards toward the end of the Kid Buu saga. Because of this I imagine the footage was already edited down for America before it made it's way to Ocean and then was checked a second/third time for either Canadian or UK TV.

I do think the UK was less censorship heavy than America when it came to DBZ because like you mentioned, the Big green movies and the Blue water dubs got away with a lot compared to Z and I can't be sure whether the French footage masters they were using for the Blue Water and Big Green dubs were already edited or were given to them in original unedited form.

There was a funny inconsistency during the Ocean dub where they edited out a scene of an Android smashing someones head into a car, I only knew it was edited because they revealed it on the recap the next episode.

I recall this happening during the Videl/Spopovich fight too. probably happened in other places as well.

[90sDBZ]

Although I don't remember the Great Saiyaman saga ever airing in Funimation dub I do remember the Fusion saga incident on CNX very well. They aired the entire Fusion saga on CNX at least twice in Funimation dub before switching back to Ocean about halfway through the third run I believe. I remember being overjoyed when I found out Funi's dub was airing, and then being hugely disappointed when they switched back to the Westwood dub. I've also seen some people claim that Funi's Fusion saga continued airing early in the morning while Ocean's aired at other times.

As for footage I can confirm 100% that Ocean's Fusion saga had more cuts than the Funi version that aired before it. Scenes cut included Super Buu jumping down the gunman's throat and Gotenks farting in the bath.

My theory on the whole thing is that AB had been using the Westwood dub to avoid having to pay Faulconer Royalties for his music. I think that Ocean were taking too long to dub the Fusion saga, so AB licenced Funi's dub for short term use, as they couldn't afford to license it long term. Then when Ocean had finished dubbing it they subtly introduced that version on CNX. What's interesting is that not too long after them introducing the Ocean Fusion saga they began airing promos for the Kid Buu saga. Perhaps they wanted to dub the remaining episodes in one go which would explain them taking so long. The improvement in quality for those later episodes would also explain the long time they took. And CNX would mostly use the Westwood intro/ending for the Funi episodes, except for sometimes when they'd occasionally use Faulconer's intro.

I also remember reading on a forum years ago that CNX also had a short promo for the Kid Buu saga featuring Funi's dub, saying that they heard Sabat during the scene were Vegeta threatens to pull out Fat Buu. I can't remember ever seeing this myself though and it was definitely in Ocean dub when the Kid Buu saga actually did air.

[NinjaGoku]

My theory on the whole thing is that AB had been using the Westwood dub to avoid having to pay Faulconer Royalties for his music. I think that Ocean were taking too long to dub the Fusion saga, so AB licenced Funi's dub for short term use, as they couldn't afford to license it long term. Then when Ocean had finished dubbing it they subtly introduced that version on CNX. What's interesting is that not too long after them introducing the Ocean Fusion saga they began airing promos for the Kid Buu saga. Perhaps they wanted to dub the remaining episodes in one go which would explain them taking so long. The improvement in quality for those later episodes would also explain the long time they took.

That makes total sense! I kind of remember the dub switching now that you mention it.

[TVfan721]

In Canada, we had none of this mess. We had the Funimation dub all the way up until very late into the Cell Saga and then switched to the Westwood Dub for the rest of the series. There was no back and forth, no issues with video quality, and no additional edits.

[Kakacarrottop]

• Years later the UK received most of the movies from AB Groupe, the bad big green dubs, but seriously where were the edits?

I've watched a lot of the Big Green dub (it's literally one of the funniest things i've ever had the pleasure to watch) and i notice they always use the word "Eliminate" instead of kill, death etc in a similar vein to the original English DBZ dub. I think that could be because they weren't allowed to say that on Toonami UK or something? Because other than that there is no obvious censoring going on in that dub. I think that dub was just so extremely rushed with such little effort put in that they just didn't care about that sort of stuff, and were more focused on trying to dub 10 films in a week or so.

[Super Sayian Prime]

In Canada, we had none of this mess. We had the Funimation dub all the way up until very late into the Cell Saga and then switched to the Westwood Dub for the rest of the series. There was no back and forth, no issues with video quality, and no additional edits.

Also, YTV would only air the first three films, as dubbed by Ocean for Pioneer. They made the right call if their only option for movies 4-13 was to air the Big Green productions.

[90sDBZ]

It's really strange how the Westwood dub contained extra cuts in the UK only despite Cartoon Network/CNX/Toonami UK airing all of their Funi episodes without extra cuts. I've seen lots of debate about whether the Westwood dub was made for Canada or the UK. The fact that it aired in the UK first and earlier on in the series too would suggest that it was made for the UK. But then you have a less censored version of it airing in Canada. I think someone once mentioned that it was made for Canada due to YTV not getting their tapes from Funi soon enough and getting frustrated.

To add further confusion the Ocean Fusion saga aired on CNX before Toonami, so it wasn't even in the kids section yet it was censored more than the Funi version that aired before it. And the Westwood dub mostly removed reference to death despite it being left intact in Funi episodes on both UK and Canadian TV.

[NitroEX]

My theory on the whole thing is that AB had been using the Westwood dub to avoid having to pay Faulconer Royalties for his music. I think that Ocean were taking too long to dub the Fusion saga, so AB licenced Funi's dub for short term use, as they couldn't afford to license it long term. Then when Ocean had finished dubbing it they subtly introduced that version on CNX. What's interesting is that not too long after them introducing the Ocean Fusion saga they began airing promos for the Kid Buu saga. Perhaps they wanted to dub the remaining episodes in one go which would explain them taking so long. The improvement in quality for those later episodes would also explain the long time they took.

I think it's more likely that it was Cartoon Network UK who were responsible for the Funimation episodes during the Fusion saga rather than AB group. AB group must have been the ones paying for the production of the Ocean dubbed episodes and distributing them directly to CN so it doesn't make sense for them to start paying for someone elses dub on top of all that. If AB wanted Faulconer music (which I don't think they did) Funimation would make them pay out the ass for it which would be a pretty stupid business move on AB's part when they had a perfectly good alternative option.

It's easy to jump to the conclusion that CN UK just wanted the episodes faster and that was the reason they went back to Funimation but the more I think about it it doesn't really make a lot of sense since Ocean had been behind Funimation's schedule for a long time before that. If they just wanted the episodes faster why didn't they just go with Funimation all along? That and the fact that the change back and forth was so abrupt and random leads me to think it was some kind of dispute between AB, CN or CN & FUnimation.

Either CN did all of a sudden want these particular episodes sooner but someone at Funimation pissed off CN UK which made them go back to doing business with AB or it could of been a disagreement with AB group which made CN go back to Funi but once it was cleared up they continued using AB.

My moneys on the latter since it helps explain things returning to normal until the end of the series. They even went out of their way to air the missing Ocean episodes.

[90sDBZ]

I think it's more likely that it was Cartoon Network UK who were responsible for the Funimation episodes during the Fusion saga rather than AB group. AB group must have been the ones paying for the production of the Ocean dubbed episodes and distributing them directly to CN so it doesn't make sense for them to start paying for someone elses dub on top of all that. If AB wanted Faulconer music (which I don't think they did) Funimation would make them pay out the ass for it which would be a pretty stupid business move on AB's part when they had a perfectly good alternative option.

It's easy to jump to the conclusion that CN UK just wanted the episodes faster and that was the reason they went back to Funimation but the more I think about it it doesn't really make a lot of sense since Ocean had been behind Funimation's schedule for a long time before that. If they just wanted the episodes faster why didn't they just go with Funimation all along? That and the fact that the change back and forth was so abrupt and random leads me to think it was some kind of dispute between AB, CN or CN & FUnimation.

Either CN did all of a sudden want these particular episodes sooner but someone at Funimation pissed off CN UK which made them go back to doing business with AB or it could of been a disagreement with AB group which made CN go back to Funi but once it was cleared up they continued using AB.

My moneys on the latter since it helps explain things returning to normal until the end of the series. They even went out of their way to air the missing Ocean episodes.

As far as I'm aware it was always AB who distributed DBZ to the UK, even during the Saban-Funi and Funi inhouse era before the Westwood dub even existed. I always remember seeing their logo appear at the end of the Rock the Dragon outro and after Faulconer's outro. Personally I don't think AB have ever been very particular of which voices or music they use. After all they gave us the Big Green dub. I think they either could no longer afford licensing Funi's dub (possibly due to Faulconer or perhaps another reason) or they simply got tired of paying that amount.

What leads me to believe that CN UK wanted the Fusion saga episodes faster is the fact that there had been a considerably longer wait than usual for new episodes. I remember seeing the episode when Buu's dog got shot and then waiting several months for new episodes to appear. And we also know that the Ocean cast had a more relaxed production schedule for the Fusion and Kid Buu episodes too. I'm guessing that for whatever reason they were allowed to take their time dubbing those episodes, and as a result possibly missed their deadline forcing AB to go to Funi temporarily to avoid getting in trouble with CN UK. After all CNX was a new channel which CN UK were probably planning on having new DBZ episodes be the main attraction for.

[TVfan721]

Canada had LESS censorship than both the US/Funi and UK/Westwood. Here's something to think about, here in Canada for the original Dragon Ball, they actually aired the Roshi/Bulma flashing scene completely unedited. Nose bleed and all. We didn't get any censored tomato juice shit, we got the real thing.

So regarding the whole censorship thing, yeah Canada did indeed have things that weren't seen in US or UK.

[NinjaGoku]

What leads me to believe that CN UK wanted the Fusion saga episodes faster is the fact that there had been a considerably longer wait than usual for new episodes. I remember seeing the episode when Buu's dog got shot and then waiting several months for new episodes to appear. And we also know that the Ocean cast had a more relaxed production schedule for the Fusion and Kid Buu episodes too. I'm guessing that for whatever reason they were allowed to take their time dubbing those episodes, and as a result possibly missed their deadline forcing AB to go to Funi temporarily to avoid getting in trouble with CN UK. After all CNX was a new channel which CN UK were probably planning on having new DBZ episodes be the main attraction for.

Might explain what happened with the Funi 'bootleg' copies on air. AB being contracted to deliver new Ocean episodes to CN, Ocean failed to deliver to AB by due date, AB compensated by delivering Funi copies to CN but in the rush they weren't mastered properly for broadcast. CN advertised and promised new episodes to viewers so even if the quality was near unwatchable and inconsistent it was better than nothing right? For being the most watched show on CN at the time it was probably their only option no matter how terrible it looked.

AB Groupe sucked. For being the franchise owner in Europe there was so much merchandise opportunity in the UK but they were half-assed about the whole thing. You would find shops that had figures with characters that wouldn't be introduced for 2 years holding gun accessories. Oh and there were some posters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBBY2UhQAkk

There was this one time that Cartoon Network had a UK magazine, it included a free DBZ figure, I got a 1 inch Mr Popo but I'm unsure what collection it originated from.

So regarding the whole censorship thing, yeah Canada did indeed have things that weren't seen in US or UK.

How do you know the UK didn't receive the same censorship as Canada?

[dbboxkaifan]

What leads me to believe that CN UK wanted the Fusion saga episodes faster is the fact that there had been a considerably longer wait than usual for new episodes. I remember seeing the episode when Buu's dog got shot and then waiting several months for new episodes to appear. And we also know that the Ocean cast had a more relaxed production schedule for the Fusion and Kid Buu episodes too. I'm guessing that for whatever reason they were allowed to take their time dubbing those episodes, and as a result possibly missed their deadline forcing AB to go to Funi temporarily to avoid getting in trouble with CN UK. After all CNX was a new channel which CN UK were probably planning on having new DBZ episodes be the main attraction for.

Might explain what happened with the Funi 'bootleg' copies on air. AB being contracted to deliver new Ocean episodes to CN, Ocean failed to deliver to AB by due date, AB compensated by delivering Funi copies to CN but in the rush they weren't mastered properly for broadcast. CN advertised and promised new episodes to viewers so even if the quality was near unwatchable and inconsistent it was better than nothing right? For being the most watched show on CN at the time it was probably their only option no matter how terrible it looked.

AB Groupe sucked. For being the franchise owner in Europe there was so much merchandise opportunity in the UK but they were half-assed about the whole thing. You would find shops that had figures with characters that wouldn't be introduced for 2 years holding gun accessories. Oh and there were some posters. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBBY2UhQAkk

There was this one time that Cartoon Network had a UK magazine, it included a free DBZ figure, I got a 1 inch Mr Popo but I'm unsure what collection it originated from.

So regarding the whole censorship thing, yeah Canada did indeed have things that weren't seen in US or UK.

How do you know the UK didn't receive the same censorship as Canada?

AB Groupe did incredibly well for France, Portugal and Spain because back in the 90's everyone was into DBZ, okay yeah the scripts that they delivered to the other countries weren't necessarily accurate but the viewers didn't really care about that kind of detail since they just wanted to watch the shows in their own language.

Some would even skip classes just for DBZ. It was that bad.

[DrBriefsCat]

Canada had LESS censorship than both the US/Funi and UK/Westwood. Here's something to think about, here in Canada for the original Dragon Ball, they actually aired the Roshi/Bulma flashing scene completely unedited. Nose bleed and all. We didn't get any censored tomato juice shit, we got the real thing.

So regarding the whole censorship thing, yeah Canada did indeed have things that weren't seen in US or UK.

The US got it uncut on DVD.

[TVfan721]

I'm referring to what aired on television.

[NinjaGoku]

I'm referring to what aired on television.

Was the UK Westwood version and the Canadian Westwood version broadcasted differently? I was under the impression they had the same edits.

[kei17]

• The first 5 episodes Cartoon Network/CNX aired (Can't remember which channel at the time) of the above mentioned saga were VERY bad copies. The first 5 premiered episodes that ran Monday to Friday there was scrolling text at the bottom of the screen apologizing for the quality of the episodes and how they were working to fix it. Now the quality was really bad, I had no idea why they bothered to air them, quality was like that of a bootleg with bad audio, grainy fuzzy picture. It could have been a bad conversion from NTSC to PAL, but I really don't know. No one seems to remember this but I remember it being a big deal at the time because they were supposedly 'new' episodes.

We discussed this three years ago. http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... =7&t=20052

[NinjaGoku]

Wow thanks, glad someone posted about it, thought I was crazy! I got a lot of facts wrong, so it wasn't Funimation dub? My memory is very fuzzy. That throws a lot of my theories out the window, still very strange how CN UK handled it.