Budokai Tenkaichi 3 is really the best game ever made?

[mysticboy]

No, people are saying that they don't care that it was plagiarized. Which is even worse.

Well, did you go out a buy the music he plagiarized? I mean, you care, right?

[Kamiccolo9]

No, people are saying that they don't care that it was plagiarized. Which is even worse.

Well, did you go out a buy the music he plagiarized? I mean, you care, right?

Why would I have to buy the music that he stole in order to condemn him for plagiarism? That doesn't make sense. My personal taste in music, and my purchases towards such, have no bearing on Yamamoto being a thief.

[Luso Saiyan]

Are some of you really supporting plagiarism? Seriously?

Tenkaichi 3 was great but Tenkaichi 2 beat it out except characters and gameplay. Remember Yamamoto plagiarized so that also makes Tenkaichi 2 in my opinon have better music than Budokai 3.

Not in the HD remaster.

[Kamiccolo9]

Are some of you really supporting plagiarism? Seriously?

Apparently basic morality means nothing when set against enriching the experience of a cartoon.

[Gonstead]

It's okay if you liked the versions which Yamamoto composed.

What's not okay is saying, much less thinking that plagiarism is justified because you don't care.

[mysticboy]

Why would I have to buy the music that he stole in order to condemn him for plagiarism? That doesn't make sense. My personal taste in music, and my purchases towards such, have no bearing on Yamamoto being a thief.

The point is that if you care so much about him plagiarizing, why not support the artists he stole from? You bought the games containing the stolen music, giving the thief some money, might as well support the victims regardless of your taste in music.

[Kamiccolo9]

Why would I have to buy the music that he stole in order to condemn him for plagiarism? That doesn't make sense. My personal taste in music, and my purchases towards such, have no bearing on Yamamoto being a thief.

The point is that if you care so much about him plagiarizing, why not support the artists he stole from? You bought the games containing the stolen music, giving the thief some money, might as well support the victims regardless of your taste in music.

Firstly, because I don't have the money to financially support every single artist Yamamoto stole from.
Second, I don't own the games that Yamamoto did the music for.
Third, I don't like a lot of the music that Yamamoto stole from. I'm not going to support artists that don't fit my tastes.
Fourth, if someone stole a diamond from a store, is it a frequent customer's job to replace the diamond or to pay the owner for the loss? Of course not.
Fifth, again, saying that you have to support something in order to be indignant about it being stolen is stupid. That sounds more like a rationalization for theft than any kind of moral standpoint. Yamamoto is in the wrong for being a thief, not me or anyone else not supporting the guys he stole from.

[Bulma's Foot Masseur]

Are some of you really supporting plagiarism? Seriously?

Well, since it seems none of the developers can find anyone remotely decent to replace him...

(Say, who composed Budokai Tenkaichi's scores anyway? Random in-house dudes?)

[mysticboy]

Firstly, because I don't have the money to financially support every single artist Yamamoto stole from.
Second, I don't own the games that Yamamoto did the music for.
Third, I don't like a lot of the music that Yamamoto stole from. I'm not going to support artists that don't fit my tastes.
Fourth, if someone stole a diamond from a store, is it a frequent customer's job to replace the diamond or to pay the owner for the loss? Of course not.
Fifth, again, saying that you have to support something in order to be indignant about it being stolen is stupid. That sounds more like a rationalization for theft than any kind of moral standpoint. Yamamoto is in the wrong for being a thief, not me or anyone else not supporting the guys he stole from.

1. I'm not saying buy every single piece of music he stole.
2. Ok
3. Me neither. I don't like the tracks he stole from, which is why I'm not buying them, which is why I don't care that he plagiarized. I'm not justifying what he did, I'm not saying what he did is right.
4. Completely and utterly different scenario.
5. He's in the wrong of course, but my thing is this, if I'm so upset and pissed off about this man for stealing music, and I've bought Budokai 1-3 for example, I'd be a damn fool not to go and support at least a few of the artists that got ripped off even if I prefer Yamamoto's versions. That's just my moral standpoint, and I don't see how that's justification or rationalization for what he did.

[DBZAOTA482]

(Say, who composed Budokai Tenkaichi's scores anyway? Random in-house dudes?)

Tenkaichi 2 & 3's were composed by Takanori Arima internationally but had remixes of Shunsuke Kikuchi's tracks for the anime for the Japanese versions (Sparking! Neo!! and Sparking! Meteor!!)

[Quebaz]

Are some of you really supporting plagiarism? Seriously?

I won't go that far, I mean you don't see people running off to buy the Butouden,Budokai or Kai OSTs. Like someone said, people just really like his "covers" and couldn't care less that it's stolen because as Kamiccolo said "It enriches the experience of a cartoon". About that, I like that we're all atleast aware that he's a theft and are willing to correct someone about it (like the recent issue with Toonami airing Kai with Yamamoto's score), atleats it shows we're not some self-centered bastards.

BUT YOH, BUDOKAI TENKAICHI 3, FANSERVICE, BEST GAME!

[Kakarot9001]

Not in the HD remaster.

So what was the soundtrack, then?

[Luso Saiyan]

I won't go that far, I mean you don't see people running off to buy the Butouden,Budokai or Kai OSTs.

By 'supporting' I meant 'not caring/being fine with'.

So what was the soundtrack, then?

Borrowed from the other recent games.

[Kakarot9001]

I got various Budokai trilogy tracks in my cellphone is that a bad thing? I really love those tracks

[Luso Saiyan]

There's nothing else to be said about this other than:

It's okay if you liked the versions which Yamamoto composed.

What's not okay is saying, much less thinking that plagiarism is justified because you don't care.

Bolded for emphasis.

[Saiga]

I can't imagine preferring Dragonrush: The Game over BT3.

A hypothetical B3 without the Hyper Mode/Dragonrush mechanic would be a much closer contender, but eeech.

You mean... Infinite World?

Anyway I haven't played enough of Xenoverse to compare it to anything but B3/IW both beat out BT3. I love having lots of characters/costumes/fanservice... but the gameplay doesn't appeal to me at all. I just can't enjoy the combat like I do in B3/IW, and it sucks the fun out of my little what-if stories immediately.

I've been doing my what-if stories in IW now. Far more limited, but I enjoy the actual matches. Working with the limitations can help in its own way, even.

[WittyUsername]

I haven't played Xenoverse yet, so I can't definitively say wich Dragon Ball game I consider the best. I'm often conflicted between whether or not I would consider Budokai 3, or BT3 to be the best Dragon Ball fighting game I've played. Budokai 3 I would had the more complex fighting system, and a nice, interactive story mode that gives you plenty to do. BT3 on the other hand, felt closer to the anime, and had much more characters and transformations.

[SSJmole]

I don't think so. Budokai 3 is the best for me. That game did almost everything right. It had a cool story mode with plenty of replay value, the fighting mechanics were stylized and authentic but still rock solid (not to mention a huuu~uuge improvement over the first two Budokai games), the graphics and cinematics were and are still nice as hell, and the soundtrack was memorial though not as good as the first one's. It's the only DBZ game that I was fully committed to completing twice.

There's also Shin Budokai - Another Road, Infinite World (it's story mode sucked too but it made up for the refined core fighting mechanics from previous Budokai games), and BT2 (which has worse mechanics but it's better in almost every other way). BT3's definitely in my Top 5, though.

I came to say this. IMO Budokai 3 is the best. Nothing has even come close to touching it.

[Neshawn]

I went on a personal mission to find out what is the best dbz game staring from DBGT Final Bout. Now given the fact I bought all of them within a year so there is no sentimental value for me, I would have to say I had the most fun with Budokai 3. It was the best and most creative in the regard of unlocking characters and playing story mode. Not to mention Dragon Arena being really fun to challenge yourself in learning how to play the game well (cancels not allowed). Budokai Tenakichi 3 is probably the best 3D fighter of the Dragonball franchise. Budokai 3 just had such an interactive story mode compared to BT3 it is hard for me to say any DragonBall game is quite as good.

[Zephyr]

I think it's certainly one of the best games in the series. The best at what it does, at least, in spite of it not having the awesome system of unlocking characters that Tenkaichi 2 had where you had to match two clues. Budokai 3, Tenkaichi 3, and Super DBZ are like the Holy Trinity of DBZ fighting games. Xenoverse so far seems to have enough setting it apart that I may need to turn that triangle into a square (it really seems like a hybrid of Tenkaichi, Sagas, Budokai, and DBO).

Interestingly though, my favorite games in the series are actually Budokai 1, Budokai 2, and Legacy of Goku 1. Always amusing when the games you prefer and the games you find to be the best don't entirely line up.

But it lacks these songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZZeOh2DL7M

That automatically makes it's soundtrack inferior.

Holy shit, 3 didn't have Challengers? That's awful.

Are some of you really supporting plagiarism? Seriously?

Apparently basic morality means nothing when set against enriching the experience of a cartoon.

What "basic morality" are we talking about here? Morality isn't objective.

People are free to look at the consequences of things, rather than the "principle" of the thing that was done. Personally, I am grateful that Yamamoto did what he did for the Budokai games, as I really enjoy the soundtracks as a result. It certainly would have been preferable for him to have secured the rights to the music prior to aping it, but the fact that he did not isn't the end of the world.

It is unwise and problematic to treat actions with moral absolutism. Actions don't possess inherent moral value. "Plagiarism is absolutely under no circumstances justifiable" appears to be the viewpoint you're taking, which isn't pragmatic, as it means that we could say that plagiarism couldn't be justified, even if it was necessary to save the human race. Obviously that would never be the case (God willing), but the point stands that the logical consequences of such moral absolutism aren't something I expect any rational and clear-minded individual to endorse. So from there, we must establish that sometimes plagiarism is justified. Where one believes that line is to be drawn is up to them. It's subjective. It's value-based. There's no need to be so overwhelmingly condescending to others just because they don't have the same value system that you do (I doubt you're intending to, but that's just how it's coming off to me).

Furthermore, if I were to take the viewpoint that "plagiarism is inherently bad and enjoying the fruits of any act of plagiarism is bad", it would be maddening. "Oh I really like X, but since X was plagiarized I'm not allowed to enjoy it". I can either lie to myself about what I enjoy, or I can try to force myself to alter my own taste. That seems like an unnecessary number of hoops to jump through for the sake of adhering to some kind of moral absolutism. This point here is an extrapolation from what you said, so I may be misconstruing your position. If so, just give the word.

Yes, some of us are endorsing plagiarism in this instance. No, that doesn't mean that we are necessarily endorsing it in all instances. Now, I can see where one may take issue with this viewpoint, as the criterion on which plagiarism is being justified appears to be "if I enjoy the resulting product". That's not a very productive mindset for a society to have, obviously. "Well you can rip off creative work as long as somebody enjoys the rip off!" would be the logical result, which some may argue would create a state where there was no real original content (the case could be made that this is in fact the reality right now anyway, but let's not even go that far). I must say that I'm not considering plagiarism to be "justified" in the sense the the plagiarizer should be exempt from the consequences. I'm fully okay with Yamamoto having to deal with the consequences of taking the risk of plagiarizing. He gave us enjoyable product and I'm happy for it (regardless of the methods used); he did something illegal and is now facing the consequences and I'm not remotely upset about that. Laws are in place for a reason, but that doesn't mean that enjoying some of the results of illegal activity is some heinous immoral act. You may see it as creating incentive to break the law, but the fact that it is still illegal and you're still at the mercy of the law arguably keeps this in check.

In short, my position on "were Yamamoto's actions justified?" is essentially "it depends".