Theories on what made AT turn Piccolo around so fast

[rkpres17]

I recently managed to collect all of the DB and DBZ manga, after years of steadily collecting, so I've gotten a chance to read the series literally from start to finish.

One thing that I hoped, and got, was a different perspective on the beginning of DBZ, since going straight from Volume 16 to "Volume 17" DBZ would feel more like the continuation it really is than the beginning which it always felt like (with DB feeling more like a prequel).

Reading straight through also gave me the advantage of seeing Piccolo abruptly change. I always thought it was too sudden but, after thinking about it, now I understand why.

Antagonists turning protagonists aside, once the Saiyans arrived, Akira Toriyama couldn't afford to have Piccolo as a villain anymore, for a whole series of reasons:

1. If Piccolo stayed a villain than the only way for him to be defeated permanently would if he were killed. Otherwise, to have to keep constantly defeating him would make Piccolo look as pathetic as Pilaf, which is something no one would want.

2. Goku needs stronger and stronger enemies and what always leads to the enemies' downfall is their overconfidence, thinking nothing can or ever will top them. If Piccolo thinks Goku could top him, he's not overconfident anymore and lacks that important characteristic a DB/DBZ villain needs.

3. Goku can't get training on Earth or with God (or Heaven as they called it) to get stronger, he can't gain anymore from either of those places. He has to go to the Afterlife (or Hell). Except he can't get to Hell if Piccolo's an evil demon because then he'll be trapped in limbo.

4. Without Goku, someone has to train Gohan not only to be stronger but how to use that strength. It can't be Kami, because Goku and Piccolo have both already surpassed him. If Goku's off training with Kaio, it has to be Piccolo.

5. Goku's kid isn't going to become a supervillain that he has to defeat. What would he have to do? Eventually kill his son? No. It has to be the other way around. Gohan has to affect Piccolo.

For those reasons, even though it's abrupt, it was neccessary, in order for the story to advance, that Piccolo change sides quickly after the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.

[BrollysKin]

Wow, this seems like a thesis for a kick ass paper.

You obviously put a lot of thought into this. Good job!

[Mystic Jack]

Ya! Excellent work! Never though of it the way you did!

[Maphisto86]

Well a few years pass since the 23rd Budokai so it get's pretty lonely out there in the desert. I have my theories but I believe both Piccolo Daimao and his reincarnation Piccolo Jr. represented Kami's (or the nameless Namek) fear and hatred. This great evil that was inside the Namek who became Kami was not normal... it was created after years of lonelyness and persecution by humans. I'm tempted to create a fan fiction about Kami and Piccolo Daimao's origins out of this idea. Piccolo (and Piccolo Daimao) where the products of a "Frankenstein" complex. If anyone had read the book "Frankenstein" they will understand my theory. Piccolo was like the monster.... he became evil because of his crushing lonliness and hatred of those who wronged him.

Piccolo Jr. was slightly different in that he was a new creation, a new person who despite having the memories of Piccolo Daimao was not the same person and was capable of good. I think Piccolo started to turn around when he saw Goku sacrifice himself to kill Raditz. Then he took Gohan to train.... yet Piccolo felt it his "duty" to protect Gohan. Then it he began to feel praternal feelings for the boy. Eventually seeing how much Gohan grew on his own in the wilderness reminded Piccolo of himself. His respect for the boy grew and so did his affection when he saw that despite all the hardship Gohan didn't hate him. This was Piccolo's turning point .

It's a very touching story and an excellent one by Mr. Toryiama. IT'S GREAT! I love how Dragonball both teaches young boys that hard work pays off and forgiveness and retribution with your foes is a good thing. The same with how fighting to protect something or someone is the source of true strength which is what Goku represents and what Teinshinhan, Piccolo, and Vegeta eventually figured out.

[chibi_goten]

You both have some really great views on Piccolo there; I can clearly understand where you both are coming from. Piccolo probably has got the biggest character developments in the show. Arguably with Vegeta I guess.

[Mr.Piccolo]

First off, congrats on reading all of the manga through in that way. Also, all give you a cookie on putting together this thread for Piccolo. Anyway, I agree with most of your statements for the most part. I will explain in quote form:

Antagonists turning protagonists aside, once the Saiyans arrived, Akira Toriyama couldn't afford to have Piccolo as a villain anymore, for a whole series of reasons:

1. If Piccolo stayed a villain than the only way for him to be defeated permanently would if he were killed. Otherwise, to have to keep constantly defeating him would make Piccolo look as pathetic as Pilaf, which is something no one would want.

I think its safe to say that Piccolo was the smartest villian turned hero in the series, hands down. When Raditz arrived, he knew his only options were to either to team up with his father's murderer or die. When Raditz announced the arrival of Vegeta and Nappa, he was the first (and only) one to put together Gohan's whole "hidden power" thing.

2. Goku needs stronger and stronger enemies and what always leads to the enemies' downfall is their overconfidence, thinking nothing can or ever will top them. If Piccolo thinks Goku could top him, he's not overconfident anymore and lacks that important characteristic a DB/DBZ villain needs.

I think the only time Piccolo got to "shine" was during the 23rd Tournament. He was not only overconfident, but he used tactics and mindgames on Goku (i.e. swallowing Kami..'s er Jar and attack on the people in the tournament). Vegeta was very overrconfident. That lead to his downfall on many occasions. I want to take this oppertunity to say that Vegeta has been bitched out and tossed on the ground so many times, its hard to keep count. And for a man to decline senzu, he sure has had his fill. But that is for another thread.

3. Goku can't get training on Earth or with God (or Heaven as they called it) to get stronger, he can't gain anymore from either of those places. He has to go to the Afterlife (or Hell). Except he can't get to Hell if Piccolo's an evil demon because then he'll be trapped in limbo.

I never believed that limbo crap. I think that was thrown in just for DragonBall and no Namekian backlog. Goku basically used every source that the Earth could give him, so the only logical place to train is in Hell! Cha-la head Cha-la!

4. Without Goku, someone has to train Gohan not only to be stronger but how to use that strength. It can't be Kami, because Goku and Piccolo have both already surpassed him. If Goku's off training with Kaio, it has to be Piccolo.

I believe Piccolo was the only one that could do the job. I do think it would be really fun to see Gohan being trained by Ten or Roshi and using their respective signature attacks (Ten-san). Also it would be so funny if Gohan grew up to be a pervert under Roshi's wing.

5. Goku's kid isn't going to become a supervillain that he has to defeat. What would he have to do? Eventually kill his son? No. It has to be the other way around. Gohan has to affect Piccolo.

The man trying to take away Piccolo's thunder. Piccolo is badass and Gohan is his successor (to be remade in his image, blah blah). He has like 3200 friends on myspace without whoring. Its a fact.

For those reasons, even though it's abrupt, it was neccessary, in order for the story to advance, that Piccolo change sides quickly after the 23rd Tenkachi Budokai.

Yeah, it would be cool if Piccolo made appearances in the DragonBall filler after the tournament or another DragonBall movie. But seeing how Piccolo was, he would fight Goku to the death again. So the only perils he could do would be the whole tying a damsel on a train and growing a very long mustache.

[SuperVegeta]

sai ram
I don't know if you guys realised it too but i sure did. In DBZ, Piccolo, the main villain of DB becomes a good guy and in DBGT, Vegeta, the main villain (should I say?) of DBZ becomes the good guy. See any similarities? ^_^
sai ram

[_Jrinu_]

Well, I don't know if any of you guys have read the "One Piece Colour Walk" which is a book of illustrations from One Piece. But in there is an interview between Akira Toriyama and Eiichiro Oda, and this is one of the topics they brush upon.

And, accoring to Toriyama, it had been decided earlier on (although he doesn't remember exactly when) that Piccolo would join sides with Son Goku to "remain with the cliche style of manga character progression."

So even before Raditz arrived, it was decided that Piccolo would become a good guy. Pretty cool, huh?

[Kendamu]

Nice find! Can you scan that for us?

[_Jrinu_]

Nice find! Can you scan that for us?

I certainly will... As soon as I get my scanner working again.