Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Lord Beerus]

Demigra: 75 million years.
Freeza: 4 month's.

One is far more believable than the other.

That and the whole Prodigy excuse is the worst plothole in existence of DB.

You don't understand the term "plot hole".

[sintzu]

He trained for four months and became strong enough to beat Son Goku. That's happening. Accept it and let's move on, yeah?

They'll move on to Vegeta on Monday.

[KaiserNeko]

Then Goku was flat out a liar and Vegeta was right. No amount of training the low class does will ever surpass an elite who are naturally more gifted and privileged.

Well, then good.

Because that's how it works in the real world. People are genetically inclined toward becoming stronger, faster, etc.

Son Goku's entire schtick wasn't about being stronger, it was about finding a way to deal with stronger opponents, or circumstances stacked against him. Sure, he was stronger than a couple of them, but a lot of his bigger battles were won through skill. Christ, he even admits that Gohan is stronger than he is and had a better chance of beating Cell than he would.

He lost against Raditz. He lost against Vegeta. He only won against Freeza because SUPER SAIYAN. He lost against Cell. He lost against Buu. Every one of those victories, he either needed help (Piccolo for Raditz, all of his friends against Vegeta, Gohan against Cell, and Vegeta plus all the people on the Earth for the spirit bomb, AND THE NAMEKIAN DRAGON for Buu) or a deus ex machina.

[Mystic Tien]

Freeza getting that strong in just 4 months is lazy writing so matter how you try to justify it sorry.

If you are talking to me, then I guess, you misunderstood me. I am not trying to defend this particular idea, and I acknowledge that this is the lazy writing. My point was that it is the same with villains. Just because heroes are constantly getting stronger, it doesn't mean that villains can't. If they actually train hard, they can rival their opponents, or even surpass them. So I don't have any problems with Frieza becoming stronger. The problem is in how stronger he becomes and in what amount of time. But I can actually see him achieving, for example, power level of SSJ3 Goku after many years of training. Cell and Fat Buu should get to it even faster.

[Deathbringer]

Freeza getting that strong in just 4 months is lazy writing so matter how you try to justify it sorry.

What so if he just said a longer period of time then it's suddenly not lazy?

[Mystic Tien]

For one it goes against Goku's one speech of "Even a low class can surpass an elite if he trains hard enough"..which is wrong if the elite trains hard too apparently

But it is exactly like this. If someone more gifted trains just as hard or even harder than the one who doesn't have any talent or isn't naturally gifted, then then second one will never catch up to him.

Then Goku was flat out a liar and Vegeta was right. No amount of training the low class does will ever surpass an elite who are naturally more gifted and privileged.

But Vegeta already proves it by his actions, doesn't he? He is roughly close to Goku without getting any training which Goku does. If he was actually trained by the same masters as Goku did (I mean Grandpa Gohan, Master Roshi, Karin, Mr. Popo, Kami, Kaio-sama) and got to train in Other World after he died the same way as Goku did, I highly doubt that he would have turned to be weaker than Goku.

[DBZ_Lee]

Oh no. Please guys, don't go back to the power level discussion. We've got so much to look forward to in this new movie, let's focus on that.

Can't wait to see what Ryo Horikawa has to say about Vegeta's role in the movie. I take it he won't say anything until the movie has been released officially?.

[KaiserNeko]

Can't wait to see what Ryo Horikawa has to say about Vegeta's role in the movie. I take it he won't say anything until the movie has been released officially?

Hard to say! He might say something sooner than that. Depends on how much he wants to talk about Vegeta's role in the movie, and what role he has.

[GoldLiger]

If you guys don't know the whole cannibalization process when it comes to the story it goes like this:

Gohan has Mystic Mode.
Vegeta needs a mode that won't change his looks like SSG does to Goku
Make Gohan loose his Mystic Mode by stupid idiotic reasons.
GIve Mystic Mode to Vegeta.
End

Mystic Mode is just a way of saying: "Character using the most powerful abilities without changing his looks at all".

[sintzu]

He might say something sooner than that. Depends on how much he wants to talk about Vegeta's role in the movie, and what role he has.

I don't think he'll be able to say anything without Toie's OK and based on how they're prompting the movie it's obvious they don't want us to know anything about his role.

[Suupaa Gohan 2]

Marked for deletion.

[dbzfan7]

Freeza getting that strong in just 4 months is lazy writing so matter how you try to justify it sorry.

I just wish people would stop harping on it. It's been talked to death and, ultimately, is completely negligible to the story at large. Especially since we don't know if there's anything more to the 4 months of training.

He trained for four months and became strong enough to beat Son Goku. That's happening. Accept it and let's move on, yeah?

If it makes ya feel better I've accepted that, even if I don't like it. Though I've done that with a lot of things recent news has said. It's pretty sad if this concept ruins the movie for some though.

Then Goku was flat out a liar and Vegeta was right. No amount of training the low class does will ever surpass an elite who are naturally more gifted and privileged.

Well, then good.

Because that's how it works in the real world. People are genetically inclined toward becoming stronger, faster, etc.

Son Goku's entire schtick wasn't about being stronger, it was about finding a way to deal with stronger opponents, or circumstances stacked against him. Sure, he was stronger than a couple of them, but a lot of his bigger battles were won through skill. Christ, he even admits that Gohan is stronger than he is and had a better chance of beating Cell than he would.

He lost against Raditz. He lost against Vegeta. He only won against Freeza because SUPER SAIYAN. He lost against Cell. He lost against Buu. Every one of those victories, he either needed help (Piccolo for Raditz, all of his friends against Vegeta, Gohan against Cell, and Vegeta plus all the people on the Earth for the spirit bomb, AND THE NAMEKIAN DRAGON for Buu) or a deus ex machina.

What makes Goku great is his hard work and dedication to being the best. Goku's inspiring because a low class reject can be something special by even top saiyan standards, or universe standards...but apparently that's only if everyone else is lazy. Hard work surpassing the naturally privileged and gifted is inspiring. Though apparently I can write off everything Goku's accomplished cause Villains are stupid and lazy.

But Vegeta already proves it by his actions, doesn't he? He is roughly close to Goku without getting any training which Goku does. If he was actually trained by the same masters as Goku did (I mean Grandpa Gohan, Master Roshi, Karin, Mr. Popo, Kami, Kaio-sama) and got to train in Other World after he died the same way as Goku did, I highly doubt that he would have turned to be weaker than Goku.

Well that's happening right now with Whis as he teaches both of them, and even Whis says Goku is still always one step ahead of him, even though they both train hard.

[ssjjanemba]

Technically Goku didn't lose to buu, but if the fight were to continue Goku would have died.

[Mystic Tien]

If you guys don't know the whole cannibalization process when it comes to the story it goes like this:

Gohan has Mystic Mode.
Vegeta needs a mode that won't change his looks like SSG does to Goku
Make Gohan loose his Mystic Mode by stupid idiotic reasons.
GIve Mystic Mode to Vegeta.
End

Mystic Mode is just a way of saying: "Character using the most powerful abilities without changing his looks at all".

Isn't it much easier to just let Old Kaioshin to perform a ritual which unlocks all power on Vegeta?

[KaiserNeko]

He trained for four months and became strong enough to beat Son Goku. That's happening. Accept it and let's move on, yeah?

Why? It's a perfectly legitimate criticism as relevant discussion that ties into the movie as a whole. No one has to just "accept" it, even if it can't be changed.

Because regardless of whether or not it's a legitimate criticism, it's been talked to death at this point. What is there even left to say about it before the movie comes out?

Can we at least try and reserve our BURNING EMOTIONS for when the movie drops and we can really, legitimately critique it, for real?

Technically Goku didn't lose to buu, but if the fight were to continue Goku would have died.

Buu was defeated, but with the help of a ton of different people. Goku nearly lost several times, but was consistently saved. He lost against Buu, but they, as a group, defeated him.

[sintzu]

Gohan has Mystic Mode.
Vegeta needs a mode that won't change his looks like SSG does to Goku
Make Gohan loose his Mystic Mode by stupid idiotic reasons.
GIve Mystic Mode to Vegeta.
End

As long as Vegeta is a bad ass in the movie it doesn't matter who needs to get pushed aside for that to happen.

[Mystic Tien]

Gohan has Mystic Mode.
Vegeta needs a mode that won't change his looks like SSG does to Goku
Make Gohan loose his Mystic Mode by stupid idiotic reasons.
GIve Mystic Mode to Vegeta.
End

As long as Vegeta is a bad ass in the movie it doesn't matter who needs to get pushed aside for that to happen.

Even if it is Goku? oO

[ssjjanemba]

He trained for four months and became strong enough to beat Son Goku. That's happening. Accept it and let's move on, yeah?

Why? It's a perfectly legitimate criticism as relevant discussion that ties into the movie as a whole. No one has to just "accept" it, even if it can't be changed.

Because regardless of whether or not it's a legitimate criticism, it's been talked to death at this point. What is there even left to say about it before the movie comes out?

Can we at least try and reserve our BURNING EMOTIONS for when the movie drops and we can really, legitimately critique it, for real?

Technically Goku didn't lose to buu, but if the fight were to continue Goku would have died.

Buu was defeated, but with the help of a ton of different people. Goku nearly lost several times, but was consistently saved. He lost against Buu, but they, as a group, defeated him.

Exactly. So much hate for a movie that hasn't even been seen yet. People need to wait and watch the movie before yelling and screaming like a bunch of kids.

[sintzu]

Even if it is Goku? oO

Do you see me complaining about Goku losing in order for Vegeta to kick Freeza's sorry behind ?

[Baggie_Saiyan]

I really do not understand the complaints about the four months training thing, I mean we literally had Goku and co train for one day in a room and all of sudden they can challenge Cell, or something as ridiculous as the Saiyans having Zenkai, Dragon Ball pretty much made up stuff as it went along (at least it felt that way) it is not renown for having brilliant, flawless writing. Let's just enjoy the result of Freeza's powerup.