Discussion regarding the entirety of the franchise in a general (meta) sense, including such aspects as: production, trends, merchandise, fan culture, and more.
Sandubadear wrote:Does Vegeta make the God ritual off-screen?
Yes, he does. Or at least Kei didn't mention anything about it.
kei17 wrote:THIS IS NOT A MOVIE.
There's a Japanese term 起承転結 (introduction, development, turn, conclusion) which is often referred to when it comes to writing fiction, and Resurrection F completely lacks development in it. Foes appear, warriors gather, fight, then win. There is no development in the story. It's just punch, punch, kick, beam, funny conversations, punch, beam, funny reactions, beam, punch, Kamehameha! I can even hardly call this a story. It fails to be something enough calling a movie.
kei17 wrote:Things that bugged me were some really amateurish transitions of scenes, the persistent and unfunny gag moments by Beerus, and the choreography of battle sequences. Some scenes were suddenly inserted that I couldn't immediately understand what's happening. For example, Sorbet finds Pilaf and co in his space ship, and within the next two shots, they're already trapped in the ship and talking with Sorbet. It could have been a lot better by showing Pilaf and his gang first, then the space ship comes, trapped, and Sorbet gets introduced. Also, though Freeza mentions his training for a few months, the training itself is never shown and you don't understand how he could have become stronger. He just comes to the Earth shortly after his resurrection.
Birusu16 wrote:Vegeta won IMO. When you're destroying your opponent and they have to resort to underhanded tactics in order to gain the advantage then that's a victory in my eyes. I really don't care if others agree with me on it or not.
Then Goku lost as well. Completely lost.
Marco Polo wrote:
Hellspawn28 wrote:Cool to see Gohan have a kill for once. He hasn't killed someone since Cell (or Broli if you want to count in General).
SansrivaaL wrote:That guy's a Vegeta fan I doubt he'd have a possitive review about this.
Why would any Vegeta fan not like this ?
Sure Vegeta didn't kill him but he had an epic battle with him and won so shouldn't that be enough ?
Look in these forums, on youtube, gamefaq's, twitter, or other places. Lot's of "Fuck Toriyama this is Vegeta's moment, this movie is shit, blah blah blah."
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Given the information we have, I don't see how anyone in their right mind could say that Vegeta "won." That is blatant fanboyism.
Guess it depends on the definition of winning. Personally since the goal was to kill Freeza and he didn't, he lost as he died. He didn't exactly win the battle either as Freeza didn't retreat or abandon his objective at the time. They had one battle, and Freeza won it. He won by being smart, and not the stronger one.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
GokuRules987 wrote:I am still waiting for Forneverworld to review the new DBZ movie and what he thinks about it personally.
He'll fulfill his cycle. Show hesitant interest, nitpick every little bit of detail that comes out about the movie, hear it gets localized and instantly throw criticism to the wind and hype it, set unrealistic expectations and make predictions that don't happen, be hype that he maybe got one or two things right and talk about how awesome it was, go back a while later and nitpick it again so he can't be called a fanboy, and repeat.
Does it for everything, like clockwork.
lol I though he was a true dragon ball fan? He even deleted his old channel signature and made a new one with Goku in it again
I wouldnt exactly call him a true fan for various reasons but it seems Krillin took care of that part. If I were u I wouldnt expect a good review from him since what he was expecting didnt happen.
Birusu16 wrote:Vegeta won IMO. When you're destroying your opponent and they have to resort to underhanded tactics in order to gain the advantage then that's a victory in my eyes. I really don't care if others agree with me on it or not.
So...19 didn't beat Goku?
SSJ2 Gohan didn't beat Cell because daddy had to help him?
Everybody ganged up on Buu. Did they not really win?
If I'm fighting for my life, and I kick my attacker in the balls in order to save myself, does that not count as a win because of some utterly stupid system of idiotic rules?
Zephyr wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I don't see why. His goal was to stop Freeza. He didn't stop Freeza. Sounds like a loss to me.
Goku would have won, if Freeza's underling didn't distract him.
Vegeta would have won, if Freeza didn't rage quit.
Freeza would have won, if Whis didn't have hax powers.
They all kind of got cheated out of their potential victories at one point or another. Although Goku did get the final and eventual victory while Vegeta did not.
See my above point. Piccolo wouldn't have been beaten by Cell if Cell hadn't sucked up a bunch of Earthlings.
Vegeta wouldn't have lost on Earth if he hadn't been an idiot and shot Gohan's tale off from right under him.
Why do the circumstances of the win matter? Freeza did something totally in character in the context of the fight, and Vegeta was unable to prevent it. That's the textbook definition of a loss.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:
And the information he gave us says otherwise.
Vegeta fights Freeza and defeats him so in order to not get killed Freeza blows up the planet to kill Vegeta by cutting off his air steam then Whis rewinds the clock to before the planet blew up.
He won the battle then lost thanks to not having any air then didn't thanks to Whis rewinding the clock to before the planet blows up which was after he defeated him.
So by the end of the movie Freeza will have been defeated in combat by Vegeta then killed by Goku.
Last edited by sintzu on Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Birusu16 wrote:Vegeta won IMO. When you're destroying your opponent and they have to resort to underhanded tactics in order to gain the advantage then that's a victory in my eyes. I really don't care if others agree with me on it or not.
What you just described was essentially a pyrrhic victory. It's the worst kind of "victory", if you can even call it that.
Spoiler:
Akira Toriyama wrote:My policy is to try and forget things once they’re over. Since if I don’t discard the old and focus on what’s new, I’ll overload my brain capacity. I still haven’t lived down going, “Who the heck is Tao Pai-pai?” that one time I was talking with Ei’ichiro Oda-kun. But the fact that there are still people reading the series after all this time… All I can say is; “thank you.” Really, that’s all.
Akira Toriyama wrote:Drawing Dragon Ball again reminded me of two things--how much I love it, and how much I never want to do it again.
Kunzait_83 wrote:And if you're upset because all this new material completely invalidates the tabletop RPG rulebook-sized statistical system and flowchart for the characters' "canonical Power Levels" that you'd been working on painstakingly for the last bunch of years now... well I don't think there's a kind, non-blunt way of saying this, but that's 100% entirely your own misguided fault for buying so deeply into all this nonsensical garbage in the first place. And that you also have IMMENSELY skewed and comically backwards priorities in what you think is most important and needed to make a good Dragon Ball story.
Zephyr wrote:Goodness, they wrote idiotic drivel in a children's cartoon meant to advertise toys!? Again!? For the ninetieth episode in a row!? Somebody stop the presses! We have to voice our concern over these Super important issues!
Kamiccolo9 wrote:Fair enough, I concede. Sean Schemmel probably has some kind of hidden talent. Maybe he is an expert at Minesweeper. You're right; calling him "talentless" wasn't fair.
Michsi wrote: ↑Mon Jul 04, 2022 11:29 amIn Super Piccolo got yelled off the stage by Vegeta in the U6 Tournament arc and lost to Jiminy Cricket in the ToP , he deserved 15 new transformations with his theme song played by Metallica in the background.
Birusu16 wrote:Vegeta won IMO. When you're destroying your opponent and they have to resort to underhanded tactics in order to gain the advantage then that's a victory in my eyes. I really don't care if others agree with me on it or not.
So...19 didn't beat Goku?
SSJ2 Gohan didn't beat Cell because daddy had to help him?
Everybody ganged up on Buu. Did they not really win?
If I'm fighting for my life, and I kick my attacker in the balls in order to save myself, does that not count as a win because of some utterly stupid system of idiotic rules?
Zephyr wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:I don't see why. His goal was to stop Freeza. He didn't stop Freeza. Sounds like a loss to me.
Goku would have won, if Freeza's underling didn't distract him.
Vegeta would have won, if Freeza didn't rage quit.
Freeza would have won, if Whis didn't have hax powers.
They all kind of got cheated out of their potential victories at one point or another. Although Goku did get the final and eventual victory while Vegeta did not.
See my above point. Piccolo wouldn't have been beaten by Cell if Cell hadn't sucked up a bunch of Earthlings.
Vegeta wouldn't have lost on Earth if he hadn't been an idiot and shot Gohan's tale off from right under him.
Why do the circumstances of the win matter? Freeza did something totally in character in the context of the fight, and Vegeta was unable to prevent it. That's the textbook definition of a loss.
Like I said, I really don't care if you agree with me or not. I'm not going to sit here and go around in circles debating this. It's my opinion and I'm sure you have yours. IMO Vegeta won. Don't like it? Too bad.
Suupaa Gohan 2 wrote:With all due respect, sir, our opinions are just as valid as yours.
When he has seen the movie and you haven't, that's a pretty bold claim to make.
Kamiccolo9 wrote:See my above point. Piccolo wouldn't have been beaten by Cell if Cell hadn't sucked up a bunch of Earthlings.
Vegeta wouldn't have lost on Earth if he hadn't been an idiot and shot Gohan's tale off from right under him.
Why do the circumstances of the win matter? Freeza did something totally in character in the context of the fight, and Vegeta was unable to prevent it. That's the textbook definition of a loss.
That's fair. I suppose "win" and "victory" are the wrong words. He can take solace in the fact that he was winning, before his opponent started playing dirty. Thus, he has a bone thrown to him in that regard.
You're far too hung up on this. It's not that serious. Like I said, you have your opinion and I've got mine. Get over it.
Anyway, the blue super saiyan appearance based on the fanart Kei posted seems like it will definitely take some getting used to. It just looks so...weird.
dbzfan7 wrote:
Look in these forums, on youtube, gamefaq's, twitter, or other places. Lot's of "Fuck Toriyama this is Vegeta's moment, this movie is shit, blah blah blah."
So they would have been happy if Goku got the final battle with him then Vegeta came out of nowhere and final flashed him into the sun ?
I'll take what we got any day over that.
Last edited by sintzu on Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
July 9th 2018 will be remembered as the day Broly became canon.
Zephyr wrote:
That's fair. I suppose "win" and "victory" are the wrong words. He can take solace in the fact that he was winning, before his opponent started playing dirty. Thus, he has a bone thrown to him in that regard.
"Was winning" is fine. But in the end, victory or defeat come down to the actual outcome. Saying that Vegeta had a good showing is a totally different animal than saying that Vegeta won even though he was reduced to space dust. Or left to suffocate. Or however he died.
Last edited by Kamiccolo9 on Tue Mar 31, 2015 3:19 pm, edited 2 times in total.
