Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

[Low Tone G]

It's worded to mean both. The previous guy was strong and bad, but he doesn't compare to Boo. If he was just bad, then Elder Kaioshin wouldn't have much to brag about. Besides this statement came way before Beerus was created, so it's wishful thinking to try and treat it like there was some pre-planing or contingency.

Well he DOES make a point to mention his power, but all he really says about it is that he was "ridiculously strong" and only after that does he compare how bad he was to Buu who IS in fact far worse than Beerus. To top it off Beerus is in fact "ridiculously strong" too. It checks out if you ask me.

I definitely don't think it was pre-planned to be Beerus. However, I stand by my earlier statement that this is NOT a retcon. I'd say it's more of a filling of an old blank that got left blank for a long time.

It's a goof. It's highly unlikely Toriyama thought in his mind about what was originally said. He probably just remembered Elder Kaioshin being sealed, and decided that Beerus did it. Being bad means nothing if you don't have the power or influence to back it up. He said the person was weaker and not as bad. He compared both his proclamations to Boo. What makes Elder Kaioshin's statement mean something is that a ridiculously powerful person sealed him, not a bad person. Being bad means nothing without influence or power. So what he means is "A really strong bad guy sealed me away, but he wasn't comparable to Boo."

People, don't you see that Old Kai was expressing his feelings regarding with his seal away... Of course he would mention that the one who sealed him was strong, but what he really wanted to say that was bad(because he sealed him), but after realizing how bad Buu is he would mention that that Buu is worse than him. So in my book Beerus could be the one who sealed him with no problem, because he spoke about a guy who did something bad to him but still Majin Buu was more evil.

[kei17]

I really hate these cute girls in Japanese pop culture. Last time my girlfriend was watching My Little Pony during her studies and there was this bit with Japanese host that did weird gestures and talking like choking a balloon.
I wanted to punch trough her monitor with my fist after coming home from work. Yes, I don't like Shoko Nakagawa, but not more, than the acting skills of Japanese Judo Olympionic in BoG.

I'm from Japan, but I'm with you. My family and I always change the channel when that kind of "cute" girls start talking on TV. Nakagawa's annoying talk really made me want to throw a can at her, but her acting was decent in the movie anyway.

[Saiga]

I really hate these cute girls in Japanese pop culture. Last time my girlfriend was watching My Little Pony during her studies and there was this bit with Japanese host that did weird gestures and talking like choking a balloon.
I wanted to punch trough her monitor with my fist after coming home from work. Yes, I don't like Shoko Nakagawa, but not more, than the acting skills of Japanese Judo Olympionic in BoG.

I'm from Japan, but I'm with you. My family and I always change the channel when that kind of "cute" girls start talking on TV. Nakagawa's annoying talk really made me want to throw a can at her, but her acting was decent in the movie anyway.

Can I ask, how popular is your view in Japan? A lot of what I've seen has seemed fairly annoying, or in some cases kind of creepy, and I was wondering how it's perceived over in Japan where it's actually happening.

I didn't mind Nakagawa's Oracle Fish either. I wouldn't have known it was a cameo or think anything was unusual if I'd seen the movie with no knowledge going in.

Also, forgive me if you've already answered this, but how were Moimoro Z's cameos on a scale of BOG Policewomon to Oracle Fish?

[MCDaveG]

I really hate these cute girls in Japanese pop culture. Last time my girlfriend was watching My Little Pony during her studies and there was this bit with Japanese host that did weird gestures and talking like choking a balloon.
I wanted to punch trough her monitor with my fist after coming home from work. Yes, I don't like Shoko Nakagawa, but not more, than the acting skills of Japanese Judo Olympionic in BoG.

I'm from Japan, but I'm with you. My family and I always change the channel when that kind of "cute" girls start talking on TV. Nakagawa's annoying talk really made me want to throw a can at her, but her acting was decent in the movie anyway.

Can I ask, how popular is your view in Japan? A lot of what I've seen has seemed fairly annoying, or in some cases kind of creepy, and I was wondering how it's perceived over in Japan where it's actually happening.

I didn't mind Nakagawa's Oracle Fish either. I wouldn't have known it was a cameo or think anything was unusual if I'd seen the movie with no knowledge going in.

Also, forgive me if you've already answered this, but how were Moimoro Z's cameos on a scale of BOG Policewomon to Oracle Fish?

Sorry, I am not from Japan, but I will also toss something in from my girlfriend, who is a graduate in Japanese studies and translator.
But from what I know, this stuff is usually for kids and the anime culture in all it's worst as a pop culture part is minority of the broad society.
Well, outside of children, they are actually ''nerds'' simmilar to comic book fans in west, which general public doesn't really get or care about that much.
As she has to have a big view of everything, she sometimes watch or reads lots of weird stuff. Her graduate work was on topic of burial customs in the process of Meiji restoration and how it is perceived nowadays
So we still have like 20 obscure books in our library, that are about death and burials in Japan.

[kei17]

Also, forgive me if you've already answered this, but how were Moimoro Z's cameos on a scale of BOG Policewomon to Oracle Fish?

They were just chuckles and a few short lines like "Welcome back!", so they didn't bother me at all. Toei seem to have learned from the complete disaster in BoG.

[ArcaneSuperSaiyan]

It's a goof. It's highly unlikely Toriyama thought in his mind about what was originally said. He probably just remembered Elder Kaioshin being sealed, and decided that Beerus did it. Being bad means nothing if you don't have the power or influence to back it up. He said the person was weaker and not as bad. He compared both his proclamations to Boo. What makes Elder Kaioshin's statement mean something is that a ridiculously powerful person sealed him, not a bad person. Being bad means nothing without influence or power. So what he means is "A really strong bad guy sealed me away, but he wasn't comparable to Boo."

I don't know why you're so adamant about it being a mistake. It really seems like you're trying to convince yourself more than you're trying to convince me at this point. This whole thing is pretty off topic anyway so I'll just agree to disagree, but I think it's worth noting that Toriyama was said to have reread the manga prior to BOG in order to refresh his memory. Personally, I think that would leave him going into BOG with the perfect mindset for filling in old blanks.

[Vegitofaxx]

Also, forgive me if you've already answered this, but how were Moimoro Z's cameos on a scale of BOG Policewomon to Oracle Fish?

They were just chuckles and a few short lines like "Welcome back!", so they didn't bother me at all. Toei seem to have learned from the complete disaster in BoG.

What disaster are you talking about?

[hexcode99]

kei17, during the movie does Freeza show his 2nd, 3rd or 100% 4th Forms?

After reading the past 30 or so pages I see they tried to Wish King Cold back too but didn't. What a wasted opportunity!
The guy was shown for like two episodes then killed off. Would have been interesting for him to been part of the movie.

I also do not like the post ending scene which seems to be Freeza just back in Hell. I liked the empty cocoon rumor better.

[Cold Skin]

They were just chuckles and a few short lines like "Welcome back!", so they didn't bother me at all. Toei seem to have learned from the complete disaster in BoG.

What disaster are you talking about?

I think he means the disastrous guest performance for the police woman. While the Oracle Fish was performed in a good way that made it seemless compared to usual performers (honestly, I wouldn't have guessed it was a guest star by myself), the police woman was performed in a horrible way that I've never heard in Japanese voice acting before. She was just reading her text not believing it and not being in-character for a sec, like when you ask most pupils to read a text in class: the "I read because I have to" bored tone.
This is something that foreign dubs have caught up for, as the line is likely much better performed by professionnals around the world.

[VegettoEX]

What disaster are you talking about?

The only thing I can think of is parading Kaori Matsumoto out so much ahead of time, having her deliver one line (incredibly poorly), and it being amazingly out-of-place in the film.

I'm super conflicted on Nakagawa. Her whole schtick annoys me, but her delivery is spot-on amazing and I like her cover songs .

[Vegitofaxx]

They were just chuckles and a few short lines like "Welcome back!", so they didn't bother me at all. Toei seem to have learned from the complete disaster in BoG.

What disaster are you talking about?

I think he means the disastrous guest performance for the police woman. While the Oracle Fish was performed in a good way that made it seemless compared to usual performers (honestly, I wouldn't have guessed it was a guest star by myself), the police woman was performed in a horrible way that I've never heard in Japanese voice acting before. She was just reading her text not believing it and not being in-character for a sec, like when you ask most pupils to read a text in class: the "I read because I have to" bored tone.
This is something that foreign dubs have caught up for, as the line is likely much better performed by professionnals around the world.

Oh, thanks

[EA575]

I think that's just how she is. She's just very "different" from a typical idol.
She's also a major JoJo fan (to a point of obsession), and that's fine by me

[Cold Skin]

People, don't you see that Old Kai was expressing his feelings regarding with his seal away... Of course he would mention that the one who sealed him was strong, but what he really wanted to say that was bad(because he sealed him), but after realizing how bad Buu is he would mention that that Buu is worse than him. So in my book Beerus could be the one who sealed him with no problem, because he spoke about a guy who did something bad to him but still Majin Buu was more evil.

The quote could be ambiguous, using bad just after powerful (I checked the French Perfect Edition / Kanzenban and it's the same).
But I agree, whether I read the English line that was given here or the French version, I have the natural feeling that the Ancestral Kaio Shin is catching up for using the word "bad/evil" too fast, rather than correcting both "more powerful" and "more evil". It's almost as if he could instantly cut his own sentence to rectify this, it's really like he says "man, he was as powerful and as bad - well, not as bad, let's be fair."

Which is a coincidence as Toriyama was decades away from including Beerus anywhere and likely wanted to make Majin Boo the strongest being at the time, but it's a happy coincidence as the formulation has just the need ambiguity so that it's perfectly possible that the Ancestral Kaio Shin only tries to correct the fact that he said "bad/evil". It's a bit like "He was very powerful and he was such a baaaaaad guy - well, maybe not as much as this Majin Boo, but still he was scary and mean to me".

[Low Tone G]

People, don't you see that Old Kai was expressing his feelings regarding with his seal away... Of course he would mention that the one who sealed him was strong, but what he really wanted to say that was bad(because he sealed him), but after realizing how bad Buu is he would mention that that Buu is worse than him. So in my book Beerus could be the one who sealed him with no problem, because he spoke about a guy who did something bad to him but still Majin Buu was more evil.

The quote could be ambiguous, using bad just after powerful (I checked the French Perfect Edition / Kanzenban and it's the same).
But I agree, whether I read the English line that was given here or the French version, I have the natural feeling that the Ancestral Kaio Shin is catching up for using the word "bad/evil" too fast, rather than correcting both "more powerful" and "more evil". It's almost as if he could instantly cut his own sentence to rectify this, it's really like he says "man, he was as powerful and as bad - well, not as bad, let's be fair."

Which is a coincidence as Toriyama was decades away from including Beerus anywhere and likely wanted to make Majin Boo the strongest being at the time, but it's a happy coincidence as the formulation has just the need ambiguity so that it's perfectly possible that the Ancestral Kaio Shin only tries to correct the fact that he said "bad/evil". It's a bit like "He was very powerful and he was such a baaaaaad guy - well, maybe not as much as this Majin Boo, but still he was scary and mean to me".

Something like this... Old Kai mentioned the guy with a personal disgust, because he was mean to him.

[Bullza]

Kei despite your feelings for the movie good or bad, when the movie releases do you think it'll be successful?

[Low Tone G]

Kei despite your feelings for the movie good or bad, when the movie releases do you think it'll be successful?

If I were to answer that question, I'd say it will definitely be successful... Many young children are oriented towards great action, so... But in the same time I love how this story is growing on us(including me) just because is written by Toriyama.

[Bullza]

Yeah despite any issues people have with the story, the fact that the movie appears to have much more action has surely got to give it an advantage over the last movie.

I'd imagine the casual fanbase would probably preferably this movie because of that and that might help it. The hardcore fanbase however well we'll have to see how they react after the movie comes out and people see it.

[kei17]

Kei despite your feelings for the movie good or bad, when the movie releases do you think it'll be successful?

Yes I do. It's full of hardcore action sequences that will surely entertain young kids. I would've liked it very much if I were 10 or so.

[AvatarReiko]

Is the summary of the movie out yet?

[Hugo Boss]

By the few tidbits already revealed about the movie, I think I will probably enjoy the experience. I particularly liked the twists, the Izanagi-thing. Looking forward to see the action sequences, Goku and Vegeta in their new forms and how the characters interact with each other.

Concerning Freeza, I don't know. He doesn't feel like a good rival as he did back then, so I can understand why he was killed. Actually, this is Goku's fault. None would feel like a good rival for a long time, except for Beerus maybe.