Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection 'F'"

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:28 pm

Marlowe89 wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote:What's the point of a consequence if nothing is learned from it? Him retiring is not making him a throw away character. Did that make Kame Sennin a throw away character when he retired? It just means his time is up and he's done fighting. Let him stop fighting if he's retired. Let him be a non fighter character.
No, it absolutely makes him a throw-away character. Gohan never had the intention of retiring from protecting the planet, even though he openly acknowledges that he dedicates all of his time to his responsibilities as a scholarly father as opposed to training. That's EXACTLY what makes him a multifaceted character - he doesn't condone fighting and his own lifestyle has made him comparably weaker than before, but he's still entirely willing to step up to the plate when his loved ones are in danger. He's also aware of his own power to the point that he chooses to engage in situations where he can actually make himself useful (fighting off Freeza's army) rather than fight an uphill battle against an opponent he can't beat.

Him being a non-fighter character would, in fact, go against his development as much as him training non-stop for the fun of it. Honestly, I get the impression that you want Gohan to be someone he never really was at heart. A lot of people seem to be more in love with some idealization of Gohan instead of Gohan himself.
So Kame Sennin and Yamcha are throw aways cause they retired and don't normally take part in action....good to know.

I want Gohan to actually grow or stop stealing screen time from new characters who could use it. What does showing up, jobbing, and cheering do for his character at all in a fighting anime? It does nothing.
fexus wrote:Where in my sentence that says that Gohan would be a horrible person? Where? All I'm saying is that you don't want Gohan to help people because he would job. You want him to ignore the threat. You said he should do that eventhough it isn't in his character to do that. Again how would he know that there would be a villain from the past that got a powerup to beat him who are one of the strongest people in the universe. Not on the planet, not in the galaxy but in the universe. There's also Buu, the Kai's, Beerus and Whis somewhat on his side.
So are Goten and Trunks bad for basically sensing all this action going on, and not showing up? Is it wrong for him to hang back by his family and let Goku and Vegeta handle things? We have Raditz, Vegeta, Freeza, Freeza again, the Cyborgs, Cell, Boo, Beerus, Freeza again again, notice the pattern? Trouble keeps coming and it's not going to go away forever. Instead of understanding this he acts like this is the last time it'll happen. Not only that but he has a GOD POWER UP that would take no time at all to absorb. He learned Super Saiyan and pretty much every thing he was ever taught faster than Goku.
Tsufuru wrote:gohan lives like a normal human with a family.
why is it so hard to understand?

gohans days are over.
deal with it.
Apparently not cause instead of letting his days be over, they still have the need to keep bringing him back. I'd be fine if they let his days be over, but apparently they can't just let the guy retire.
NavonWise wrote:
dbzfan7 wrote: What does that have to do with anything? You don't need that to fight. He cares about people, but not enough to get strong enough to protect them. He has access to the most broken power up ever where he doesn't even have to train. He learns everything faster than Goku, so absorbing SSJ God would be no problem. There's one giant power up, barely takes any time out of his day, and he'd have enough power to protect those he cares for.

Why do you have to like fighting to fight? Why can't you do it because it's the right thing to do? Soldiers fight not because they want to, but to protect their country. They train, they learn combat, they improve all to protect. Most don't want to fight at all. Others join the military so they have other people to fight for em, but they want to protect their families and homelands.
Because there are other characters that are more powerful than him and are better suited for the job. Like I said, he does what he can and that's that.
He doesn't do what he can. That's a load of shit. If that were the case he'd abuse the easiest and most powerful power up in existence which doesn't even require much training. Wouldn't even have to disappear from his family, it'd take 5 minutes.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by GTx10 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:30 pm

In my opinion I think folks are upset over Gohan because:

1. He doesn't use Ultimate form

2. He isn't a walking bad ass like he was in Bojack Unbound and the Super Boo saga.

3. And finally because he gets knocked out by (a powered up) First form Freeza.

If anything Gohan saying he "isn't sure if he could become a SS" is probably him doubting himself again.

Ultimate form brings his great power to the surface. He's stronger than SS3 but he hasn't trained. He gets weaker naturally. He uses SS form to compensate for his lack of power.


Toriyama has no idea what Ultimate form even is, other than a excuse to make Gohan different from SS3 and falls back on the SS form because its familiar and not radically different from the norm.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Rocketman » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:32 pm

I think it's funny that people pretend like "training" has anything to do with it. The God Ritual has no training involved at all.

They got everybody together to deify Vegeta. Why not deify Gohan too?

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:33 pm

GTx10 wrote:In my opinion I think folks are upset over Gohan because:

1. He doesn't use Ultimate form

2. He isn't a walking bad ass like he was in Bojack Unbound and the Super Boo saga.

3. And finally because he gets knocked out by (a powered up) First form Freeza.

If anything Gohan saying he "isn't sure if he could become a SS" is probably him doubting himself again.

Ultimate form brings his great power to the surface. He's stronger than SS3 but he hasn't trained. He gets weaker naturally. He uses SS form to compensate for his lack of power.


Toriyama has no idea what Ultimate form even is, other than a excuse to make Gohan different from SS3 and falls back on the SS form because its familiar and not radically different from the norm.
For me personally it's they can't grow him as a character, and they can't just retire him from fighting either. So we're left with a plot slave only good for adding tension by being beaten and nearly killed.
Rocketman wrote:I think it's funny that people pretend like "training" has anything to do with it. The God Ritual has no training involved at all.

They got everybody together to deify Vegeta. Why not deify Gohan too?
Don't even have to train to reach that status. At least by accepting the god power he makes himself more prepared to protect people, without having to train for a long time.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Marco Polo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:34 pm

sintzu wrote:With 2 powerhouses like Goku&Vegeta being around I can't say I blame Gohan for not training.
They're not always there though. They spend a lot of time with Whis.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by fadeddreams5 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:35 pm

Gohan does not need to train at all, major in 100 subjects, be a family man, and still be as strong as he was or even stronger. There are many directions this character can be taken, even now. It's not over.

I just hate how people are fixated on how he's "not a fighter" despite him fighting all his life, whether there was a need or not. They went a piss poor direction with him in the Buu saga, but they compensated. I don't understand why they regressed him and people defend it based on his preferences...
Last edited by fadeddreams5 on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by SansrivaaL » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:36 pm

Rocketman wrote:I think it's funny that people pretend like "training" has anything to do with it. The God Ritual has no training involved at all.

They got everybody together to deify Vegeta. Why not deify Gohan too?
Probably because Vegeta actually wants to get stronger while Gohan does not.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:36 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:Gohan does not need to train at all, major in 100 subjects, be a family man, and still be as strong as he was or even stronger. There are many directions this character can be taken, even now. It's not over.
It's over. Can't take 5 minutes to abuse a god power up, then go back to his own life. Nope. We need someone who is strong to fall so the danger is more real....even though the namek balls ruin all tension.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Rocketman » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:38 pm

"My fatherly duties are so important I won't take five minutes to get a supermega powerup with no effort. I mean, yeah, Pan is right here cause we had to use her for the ritual, and I'm ok with using her as a living battery for Vegeta, but I have duties now, duties that can't wait that long, duties like...........anyway, I'll protect my new family by getting beat up while we wait for Goku to arrive, not by easily and effortlessly gaining the power to protect them myself" - Gohan, apparently.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Doctor. » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:38 pm

I just want to ask people one thing: What, exactly, is the downside to giving Gohan SSJG? Lack of time? Apparently not, as they have enough time to be throwing parties. Unnecessary? Free power is never unnecessary. Maybe Gohan couldn't control the power? You can perform the ritual as many times until he can. He doesn't want to because that's it's not his character to want to get stronger like his father? That goes back to my first question, what is the downside? He doesn't have to train to get it, it's a free power-up. Suddenly the whole "Gohan is lazy" argument isn't so stupid anymore, is it?

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by fexus » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:40 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:
fexus wrote:Where in my sentence that says that Gohan would be a horrible person? Where? All I'm saying is that you don't want Gohan to help people because he would job. You want him to ignore the threat. You said he should do that eventhough it isn't in his character to do that. Again how would he know that there would be a villain from the past that got a powerup to beat him who are one of the strongest people in the universe. Not on the planet, not in the galaxy but in the universe. There's also Buu, the Kai's, Beerus and Whis somewhat on his side.
So are Goten and Trunks bad for basically sensing all this action going on, and not showing up? Is it wrong for him to hang back by his family and let Goku and Vegeta handle things? We have Raditz, Vegeta, Freeza, Freeza again, the Cyborgs, Cell, Boo, Beerus, Freeza again again, notice the pattern? Trouble keeps coming and it's not going to go away forever. Instead of understanding this he acts like this is the last time it'll happen. Not only that but he has a GOD POWER UP that would take no time at all to absorb. He learned Super Saiyan and pretty much every thing he was ever taught faster than Goku.
Please. Where in my post did I say it's bad? Please tell me. I'm going crazy over here trying to figure it out.
Of course troubles keep coming because if it doesn't, there's actually no need for DBZ to be told anymore. You know what. If you want to be like that, all the fighters who know about this constant threats should not stop training. How about asking Shenron to make the planet a force field that would protect them and tell them of incoming threat? In essence Dragon Ball is still a story about fighting. We could have a long stretch of time where it's peaceful and there would still be a threat after the Z-fighter dies. But at that time asking why they didn't just clone Gohan or make him immortal would be really stupid.

EDIT: About the SSJ God ritual. How do you know that he would absorb it? He mastered SSJ easier because he already has the potential to do so. His potential has already been opened with Ultimate. Goku and Vegeta on the other hand doesn't.
Last edited by fexus on Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:41 pm

dbzfan7 wrote:So Kame Sennin and Yamcha are throw aways cause they retired and don't normally take part in action....good to know.
Neither of those characters are anything like Gohan, so no, they're not throw-aways since their choices aren't actually hampering or going against their personalities. One of them is flat-out too afraid to fight at this point and the other still occasionally takes part in the action. Gohan is neither of these things. He actively strives to protect the world whenever it's in danger, and the fact that he's now a father probably makes him even more compelled to do so. He doesn't train because, as a family man with strong family values, he simply doesn't have the time for it. That doesn't mean he's just going to throw his abilities to the wayside when his family and his planet needs him.
dbzfan7 wrote:I want Gohan to actually grow or stop stealing screen time from new characters who could use it. What does showing up, jobbing, and cheering do for his character at all in a fighting anime? It does nothing.
He HAS grown. That's the problem with your argument. He's not just showing up and cheering, he's contributing. He contributed to Freeza's war on the planet when he took on his massive army, and he'll likely continue to contribute in any way he can. Again, he's engaging in the parts where he can actually make himself useful. That's nothing less than smart, responsible decision-making on his part.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Marco Polo » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:42 pm

You guys seem to forget that the SSJG ritual is a temporary powerup.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Doctor. » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:44 pm

Marco Polo wrote:You guys seem to forget that the SSJG ritual is a temporary powerup.
That can be controlled and mastered and, if failed, the ritual can be repeated as many times as necessary.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by SansrivaaL » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:46 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:You guys seem to forget that the SSJG ritual is a temporary powerup.
That can be controlled and mastered and, if failed, the ritual can be repeated as many times as necessary.
Like most of the people here said, Gohan doesnt like to train so he wont train ''mastering''/''controlling'' the form.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by fexus » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:47 pm

Doctor. wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:You guys seem to forget that the SSJG ritual is a temporary powerup.
That can be controlled and mastered and, if failed, the ritual can be repeated as many times as necessary.
That can only be contrlled and mastered because Goku and Vegeta are special. Gohan on the other hand isn't and already had his potential unlocked. SSJ God would give him a boost temporarily but he wouldn't absorb it.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by dbzfan7 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:48 pm

Doctor. wrote:I just want to ask people one thing: What, exactly, is the downside to giving Gohan SSJG? Lack of time? Apparently not, as they have enough time to be throwing parties. Unnecessary? Free power is never unnecessary. Maybe Gohan couldn't control the power? You can perform the ritual as many times until he can. He doesn't want to because that's it's not his character to want to get stronger like his father? That goes back to my first question, what is the downside? He doesn't have to train to get it, it's a free power-up. Suddenly the whole "Gohan is lazy" argument isn't so stupid anymore, is it?
That means he'd be taking some responsibility. I ain't asking for him to be the strongest, just at least show some care for the people he protects. If he for once said he at least trained to keep his current power, then that'd be enough to show he's learned, even if he'll be beaten.
Rocketman wrote:"My fatherly duties are so important I won't take five minutes to get a supermega powerup with no effort. I mean, yeah, Pan is right here cause we had to use her for the ritual, and I'm ok with using her as a living battery for Vegeta, but I have duties now, duties that can't wait that long, duties like...........anyway, I'll protect my new family by getting beat up while we wait for Goku to arrive, not by easily and effortlessly gaining the power to protect them myself" - Gohan, apparently.
I'm still curious as to what those other life duties are...cause I have yet to be told what they are.
fexus wrote:Please. Where in my post did I say it's bad? Please tell me. I'm going crazy over here trying to figure it out.
Of course troubles keep coming because if it doesn't, there's actually no need for DBZ to be told anymore. You know what. If you want to be like that, all the fighters who know about this constant threats should not stop training. How about asking Shenron to make the planet a force field that would protect them and tell them of incoming threat? In essence Dragon Ball is still a story about fighting. We could have a long stretch of time where it's peaceful and there would still be a threat after the Z-fighter dies. But at that time asking why they didn't just clone Gohan or make him immortal would be really stupid.
Because Shenron can't do something to stop people more powerful than him. That's been said. Also my point is it's fine to not have Goten and Trunks around when logically they can sense all these battle powers and know trouble is up, but for Gohan to not be around is a sin? Why does Gohan have to be in the movies? What does he offer to the movies? He offers nothing currently.
Marlowe89 wrote:Neither of those characters are anything like Gohan, so no, they're not throw-aways since their choices aren't actually hampering or going against their personalities. One of them is flat-out too afraid to fight at this point and the other still occasionally takes part in the action. Gohan is neither of these things. He actively strives to protect the world whenever it's in danger, and the fact that he's now a father probably makes him even more compelled to do so. He doesn't train because, as a family man, he simply doesn't have the time for it. That doesn't mean he's just going to throw his abilities to the wayside when his family and his planet needs him.
He doesn't have time to spend 5 minutes with a god power up like Goku....yeah ok. Considering he always learns things faster than Goku and has always had great potential, he can't just spend a measly 5 minutes barely training to reach god power. Something that wouldn't take away from family time. By the way care to explain what that family time is? Or what he does? Cause they sure as hell don't.
He HAS grown. That's the problem with your argument. He's not just showing up and cheering, he's contributing. He contributed to Freeza's war on the planet when he took on his massive army, and he'll likely continue to contribute in any way he can. Again, he's engaging in the parts where he can actually make himself useful. That's nothing less than smart, responsible decision-making on his part.
He contributed as a kid and has always contributed in the series. That's not growth, that's just doing the same thing as always. Growth is a change in character. Gohan has not changed since his Boo saga self. Growth would be if he put a little time into training, not enough even improve significantly, but to show he understands he'll be needed to fight. That's growth, and would still have him lose any ways. Or could you know....dump 5 minutes for god power.
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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Doctor. » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:49 pm

SansrivaaL wrote:
Doctor. wrote:
Marco Polo wrote:You guys seem to forget that the SSJG ritual is a temporary powerup.
That can be controlled and mastered and, if failed, the ritual can be repeated as many times as necessary.
Like most of the people here said, Gohan doesnt like to train so he wont train ''mastering''/''controlling'' the form.
This isn't "training". He has more raw potential and is more of a prodigy than Goku and Vegeta are, he'd be able to do it.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by Marlowe89 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:49 pm

Rocketman wrote:I think it's funny that people pretend like "training" has anything to do with it. The God Ritual has no training involved at all.

They got everybody together to deify Vegeta. Why not deify Gohan too?
I think it's funny that people pretend that the God Ritual automatically and permanently makes someone stronger without any training involved since it has to be absorbed, maintained and then mastered - all of which require a specific amount of prowess that Gohan may not possess without prior training.

Training has everything to do with it.

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Re: Official On-Going DBZ 2015 Movie Thread: "Resurrection '

Post by GTx10 » Sat Apr 18, 2015 3:51 pm

Well he did get to retire. He got involved with the Boo saga because of Videl getting hurt. (The power of boners) than he trained, become Ultimate n fought. Than Boo dies and he does his own thing. Bulma has a party and Lord Beers appears from out of no where. Like two years later now he's fighting Freeza and his Army. Than he becomes a full fledged scholar. Goku trains Oob n Z ends. 5-10 years later (I forgot what the year span was in Japanese version GT) He's a family guy. Son Kun goes to space and Earth is peaceful. Baby corrupts him, than he fights Super 17 and Super One Star Dragon.
Did he know Lord Beers, Golden Freeza, Baby or anyone else would appear? Nope! He was effectively retired. I believe he only got serious during his battle with the One Star Dragon. He pulled out the orange Gi and got serious.
Gohan is for all intents and purposes a respectable Yamacha.
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