What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Moderators: General Help, Kanzenshuu Staff
What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Do you prefer them being said/spelt as the Original Japanese with a note explaining translation? Or do you prefer a straight translation of the name?
Personally, I prefer the original Japanese, as the translations sound pretty uninspired in my opinion. I''ll fully admit, it might be just be the added mystique of them being in a different language, but they sound more like attacks if you don't translate them. It's hard to articulate why, but I just feel that way.d
Genki Dama > Energy Sphere.
Kamehameha > Turtle Wave Beam.
Makankosappo>Demonic Piercing Light Murder Gun. and many other more examples.
Which do you prefer and why?
Personally, I prefer the original Japanese, as the translations sound pretty uninspired in my opinion. I''ll fully admit, it might be just be the added mystique of them being in a different language, but they sound more like attacks if you don't translate them. It's hard to articulate why, but I just feel that way.d
Genki Dama > Energy Sphere.
Kamehameha > Turtle Wave Beam.
Makankosappo>Demonic Piercing Light Murder Gun. and many other more examples.
Which do you prefer and why?
How do you get into the Ginyu Force? With a letter of RECOOMEndation!
- VegettoEX
- Kanzenshuu Co-Owner & Administrator
- Posts: 17547
- Joined: Sat Jan 10, 2004 3:10 pm
- Location: New Jersey
- Contact:
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
In a world of "Hadoken" and "Shoryuken" I don't see much of a problem with things like "Kienzan" or "Kikoho" at all.
Translating them in their first instance either in subtitles (in parenthesis right below it; not that digisubber bouncing top-of-the-screen crap) or in a sidebar manga note is a nice practice.
I mean, there's a ton of Japanese in FUNimation's English dub that fans brush over because they don't even know it's Japanese ("Roshi" and "Baba" being two great examples). Attack names shouldn't be an issue. It's a crapshoot in terms of which attack names they keep in Japanese versus making something up, so why not be consistent about it? I like consistency. Even when I can't be consistent. But I try. Sorta.
Translating them in their first instance either in subtitles (in parenthesis right below it; not that digisubber bouncing top-of-the-screen crap) or in a sidebar manga note is a nice practice.
I mean, there's a ton of Japanese in FUNimation's English dub that fans brush over because they don't even know it's Japanese ("Roshi" and "Baba" being two great examples). Attack names shouldn't be an issue. It's a crapshoot in terms of which attack names they keep in Japanese versus making something up, so why not be consistent about it? I like consistency. Even when I can't be consistent. But I try. Sorta.
:: [| Mike "VegettoEX" LaBrie |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
:: [| Kanzenshuu - Co-Founder/Administrator, Podcast Host, News Manager (note: our "job" titles are arbitrary and meaningless) |] ::
:: [| Website: January 1998 |] :: [| Podcast: November 2005 |] :: [| Fusion: April 2012 |] :: [| Wiki: 20XX |] ::
- TheGreatness25
- I Live Here
- Posts: 4928
- Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 9:36 am
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I like the Japanese names for attacks. Though I will admit that some of them don't roll off the tongue as nicely as I'd like.
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I prefer the Japanese/original version.
- One_Instance
- Beyond-the-Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 440
- Joined: Fri Aug 01, 2014 11:47 pm
- Location: Gengoro Island
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I like the Japanese names because their dub counterparts don't sound nearly as cool, Destructo Disc being the best example I can think of. I really wish they would have stuck with the Japanese names for most of them, attacks like the Makankosappo having name changes is understandable, however. I also understand why they changed the names, but in games like Street Fighter, kids memorized the names of attacks like it was nothing, just like they did with the Kamehameha, so I don't see why Genki Dama would be to hard for them to remember, as well.
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Personally I like the Japanese names and knowing what they mean. I don't really care for the exotic approach of treating them as cool sounding gibberish.
The "kame" could obviously be assumed to be "turtle" (亀), but the "hame" is just gibberish.
Actually, the way it's written is just "Kamehame Wave" (かめはめ波). "Turtle Wave Beam" would be something like Kame Ha Kōsen (亀波光線).MarCas92 wrote: Kamehameha > Turtle Wave Beam.
The "kame" could obviously be assumed to be "turtle" (亀), but the "hame" is just gibberish.
"Like that bald punk? Killyin... You're talking about Killyin?!!" - Anime Labs
「他们並不是我孫兒... 是我弟弟。」 - 龜仙人
「他们並不是我孫兒... 是我弟弟。」 - 龜仙人
- Lord Beerus
- Namekian Warrior
- Posts: 21389
- Joined: Sat Oct 25, 2014 5:20 pm
- Location: A temple on a giant tree
- Contact:
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I much prefer the original Japanese names of attacks than what their dubbed counterparts are.
Spoiler:
- SSJ God Gogeta
- I Live Here
- Posts: 3194
- Joined: Wed Jul 16, 2014 6:33 am
- Location: Canada
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Original Japanese for me. I don't know why, they just sound more badass.
Last edited by SSJ God Gogeta on Mon May 11, 2015 3:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"I am neither Goku nor Vegeta! I am the one who will defeat you!!" - Gogeta
I'm that guy who makes the avatars
I'm that guy who makes the avatars
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I prefer them left alone. The translations that many come up with simply destroy the original connotations, or just sound plain corny. And, as VegettoEX already mentioned, most people wouldn't even question their inclusion. They just sound like 'cool' names.
I think there's two sides to this, though. You can translate them, and as long as the show explains their origins, it's probably okay. On the other hand, there's a great deal of depth to a lot of these attacks that I think you simply can't translate as they're very Eastern concepts.
The 'Genki Dama', for example. The dub calls it a 'Spirit Bomb', which isn't a bad translation, but it does seem quite far removed from the original idea behind it. Fortunately, you do get an explanation from Kaio, and the English script is similar:
So what about something like 'Taiyō-ken'? The dub calls that 'Solar Flare' and there's no explanation behind it. I can kinda see what they were going for, but it kinda undermines the whole martial arts, spiritual energy thing that Dragon Ball has going for it.
Just leave them alone. Let them speak for themselves. If someone wants to look up some meaning behind them, then at least they've got the original term right there.
I think there's two sides to this, though. You can translate them, and as long as the show explains their origins, it's probably okay. On the other hand, there's a great deal of depth to a lot of these attacks that I think you simply can't translate as they're very Eastern concepts.
The 'Genki Dama', for example. The dub calls it a 'Spirit Bomb', which isn't a bad translation, but it does seem quite far removed from the original idea behind it. Fortunately, you do get an explanation from Kaio, and the English script is similar:
We don't really have this concept of 'Genki' in the west. I can understand why FUNi opted to use 'Spirit' as it's probably the closest thing we have, but it isn't quite perfect. Derek Padula actually goes into great detail about the etymology of the Genki Dama. It's a fascinating read that details what exactly these words mean and the idea behind them.The Genki Dama is a technique that takes all of the Genki energy from grass and trees, from people and animals, and even things and atmosphere, and allocates a little bit from each of their energies, concentrates it, and shoots it.
Even a Genki Dama from a planet as small as this had that kind of destructive force. The Earth, where you’ll be fighting, is so much larger than this planet, it doesn’t even compare. Furthermore, you can harness the support of the Sun’s enormous energy. It will be a Genki Dama of incredible power. If you slip up, it wouldn’t be too hard to destroy the very planet you’re trying to protect.
So what about something like 'Taiyō-ken'? The dub calls that 'Solar Flare' and there's no explanation behind it. I can kinda see what they were going for, but it kinda undermines the whole martial arts, spiritual energy thing that Dragon Ball has going for it.
Just leave them alone. Let them speak for themselves. If someone wants to look up some meaning behind them, then at least they've got the original term right there.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.
Deadtuber.
Deadtuber.
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Taiyō Ken (太陽拳) literally means Solar Fist (or Sun Fist). It has nothing to do with "spiritual energy."AjayLikesGaming wrote: So what about something like 'Taiyō-ken'? The dub calls that 'Solar Flare' and there's no explanation behind it. I can kinda see what they were going for, but it kinda undermines the whole martial arts, spiritual energy thing that Dragon Ball has going for it.
"Like that bald punk? Killyin... You're talking about Killyin?!!" - Anime Labs
「他们並不是我孫兒... 是我弟弟。」 - 龜仙人
「他们並不是我孫兒... 是我弟弟。」 - 龜仙人
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
That's not strictly true, and you really shouldn't dismiss people like that. I have no issue with being mistaken, but please be a little nicer about it. To clarify - by "spiritual energy", I'm talking about how everything in Dragon Ball is linked to Ki. Not specifically "spiritual energy" being attached to any translation.Thouser wrote:Taiyō Ken (太陽拳) literally means Solar Fist (or Sun Fist). It has nothing to do with "spiritual energy."
Again, to link to Mr. Padula's work as he does a great job of following these concepts back to their origins, you should find a detailed look at the etymology of the term, alongside some links to Daoism.
Though I appreciate not everyone believes Toriyama had these concepts in mind when naming the techniques, I find them fascinating and very appropriate links considering Dragon Ball's ties to Chinese ideology and folklore.
Last edited by Ajay on Mon May 11, 2015 4:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Follow me on Twitter for countless shitposts.
Deadtuber.
Deadtuber.
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I prefer literal translations where possible and to be left alone where that won't work. I find it odd when a sub just keeps the attack name without a parenthetical explanation. For dragon ball a lot of the attacks have word pun meanings so the parenthetical explanation via sub whould have been nice, but given the complexity and number of attacks it makes sense why Steve Simmons did what he did.
All that being said, while I do love Steve Simmons work, I think it was incredibly odd he kept Rei Gun in Yu Yu Hakusho rather than translating it as spirit gun but I guess for consistency sake that makes sense...but that's where consistency should not trump an easy direct translation.
I think where the attack name is readily and easily translatable it should be translated because the whole point is to understand what the character is saying.
All that being said, while I do love Steve Simmons work, I think it was incredibly odd he kept Rei Gun in Yu Yu Hakusho rather than translating it as spirit gun but I guess for consistency sake that makes sense...but that's where consistency should not trump an easy direct translation.
I think where the attack name is readily and easily translatable it should be translated because the whole point is to understand what the character is saying.
"You might think you know everything there is to know about me, but really, you're not even CLOSE."
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
"Never give in--never, never, never, never, in nothing great or small, large or petty, never give in except to convictions of honour and good sense. Never yield to force; never yield to the apparently overwhelming might of the enemy." ~ Sir Winston Chruchill / Dragon Ball Z in a nutshell
How I enjoy the anime:
Spoiler:
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Having been introduced to the series with the Funimation dub, I'm perfectly fine with English translations. Having watched the anime as well at 7 years old in Japanese, I'm fine with the Japanese names. I personally don't think it's a huge deal if a localized version has localized translations of those things.
「あの地球人のように?・・・クリリンのことか・・・クリリンのことか————っ!!!!!!」
「オレは地球からきさまをたおすためにやってきたサイヤ人・・・おだやかな心をもちながらはげしい怒りによって目覚めた伝説の戦士・・・超サイヤ人孫悟空だ!!!!!」
「オレは地球からきさまをたおすためにやってきたサイヤ人・・・おだやかな心をもちながらはげしい怒りによって目覚めた伝説の戦士・・・超サイヤ人孫悟空だ!!!!!」
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Well, I feel "translations" is a very loose term when it comes to the FUNI dub. Sure, they kept a lot of the original Japanese names and a lot of the ones they invented are pretty cool. However, I feel that calling things like Solar Flare and Spirit Bomb "translations" isn't correct.Payne222 wrote:Having been introduced to the series with the Funimation dub, I'm perfectly fine with English translations. Having watched the anime as well at 7 years old in Japanese, I'm fine with the Japanese names. I personally don't think it's a huge deal if a localized version has localized translations of those things.
How do you get into the Ginyu Force? With a letter of RECOOMEndation!
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I don't mind technique names being translated when they're translated well and even just mostly accurate. "Wolf Fang Fist" is good. "Spirit Bomb" is okay.
But ones like "Special Beam Cannon" and "Tri-Beam" are stupid. If they were translated as something more accurate like "Evil Drill Cannon" for the Makankosappo and "Life Cannon" for the Kikoho, I'd be cool with it.
But ones like "Special Beam Cannon" and "Tri-Beam" are stupid. If they were translated as something more accurate like "Evil Drill Cannon" for the Makankosappo and "Life Cannon" for the Kikoho, I'd be cool with it.
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!
- Hellspawn28
- Patreon Supporter
- Posts: 15204
- Joined: Mon Sep 07, 2009 9:50 pm
- Location: Maryland, USA
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
It depends on the name. As Kaboom mention, some dub names are okay while others are just plain stupid. I would have use Light Gun instead of Special Beam Cannon, but in 1996 they needed to keep the show family friendly as possible.
She/Her
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
PS5 username: Guyver_Spawn_27
LB Profile: https://letterboxd.com/Hellspawn28/
- Captain Sauza
- Beyond Newbie
- Posts: 129
- Joined: Wed Mar 05, 2014 6:05 pm
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
I like them all. It's cool to see the differences between the English translation of the japanese attack, and whether they do a literal translation or come up with something that sounds more cool to them. I like to compare these differences with a lot of video games too, particularly JRPGs.
One of my favorite JRPGs is Legend of Legaia, and I went about getting translations for a lot of the attack names in the JP version and found that the NA release of the game just made up their own English version of certain attacks rather than doing a literal translation.
Example:
One boss shoots a ball of fire that looks similar to a hadoken.
JP attack name: Haou Jaen Satsupa (覇皇邪遠殺波)
Literal Translation: Supreme Emperor Evil Killing Wave From Afar
NA attack name: Hyper Wave
Sometimes the made up translation works, other times I like the original better. But I can't say that I straight up like the original japanese over the translation or vice versa.
One of my favorite JRPGs is Legend of Legaia, and I went about getting translations for a lot of the attack names in the JP version and found that the NA release of the game just made up their own English version of certain attacks rather than doing a literal translation.
Example:
One boss shoots a ball of fire that looks similar to a hadoken.
JP attack name: Haou Jaen Satsupa (覇皇邪遠殺波)
Literal Translation: Supreme Emperor Evil Killing Wave From Afar
NA attack name: Hyper Wave
Sometimes the made up translation works, other times I like the original better. But I can't say that I straight up like the original japanese over the translation or vice versa.
"We are Cooler's Armored Squadron!" *performs Sauza fighting pose*
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
You have to take into context the time that it was being translated and being brought to the American public. A foreign cartoon talking about the Devil and death? Many parents would be apprehensive to let their children jump right into that. And that's perfectly ok, it's a cultural thing. Kinda like how Pokemon changed Brock's onigiri to donuts. At 5 years old I have no idea what the fuck onigiri was, so they adapted it a bit for the audience.Kaboom wrote:I don't mind technique names being translated when they're translated well and even just mostly accurate. "Wolf Fang Fist" is good. "Spirit Bomb" is okay.
But ones like "Special Beam Cannon" and "Tri-Beam" are stupid. If they were translated as something more accurate like "Evil Drill Cannon" for the Makankosappo and "Life Cannon" for the Kikoho, I'd be cool with it.
「あの地球人のように?・・・クリリンのことか・・・クリリンのことか————っ!!!!!!」
「オレは地球からきさまをたおすためにやってきたサイヤ人・・・おだやかな心をもちながらはげしい怒りによって目覚めた伝説の戦士・・・超サイヤ人孫悟空だ!!!!!」
「オレは地球からきさまをたおすためにやってきたサイヤ人・・・おだやかな心をもちながらはげしい怒りによって目覚めた伝説の戦士・・・超サイヤ人孫悟空だ!!!!!」
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
You said that the name "Solar Flare" undermined the idea of spiritual energy. I'm just saying that translating it accurately, as Solar Fist, would still having nothing to do with spiritual energy. I didn't mean to come off as confrontational. The "fist" in the name does however preserve the martial arts theme, which you also mentioned.AjayLikesGaming wrote:That's not strictly true, and you really shouldn't dismiss people like that. By "spiritual energy", I'm talking about how everything in Dragon Ball is linked to Ki. Not specifically "spiritual energy" being attached to any translation.Thouser wrote:Taiyō Ken (太陽拳) literally means Solar Fist (or Sun Fist). It has nothing to do with "spiritual energy."
I doubt that over-analysing radicals has anything to do with Toriyama's reason for picking the name. Taiyō means the Sun. Ken means fist. It's an attack that resembles the light from the Sun. That's pretty straightforward if you ask me. Plus, this guy gets lots of stuff wrong anyway.AjayLikesGaming wrote:Again, to link to Mr. Padula's work as he does a great job of following these concepts back to their origins, you should find a detailed look at the etymology of the term, alongside some links to Daoism.
Though I appreciate not everyone believes Toriyama had these concepts in mind when naming the techniques, I find them fascinating and very appropriate links considering Dragon Ball's ties to Chinese ideology and folklore.
太 does mean something that's great in size. For example, it is used to mean describe someone "fat" in Japanese.the dao of dragon ball wrote: So taiyō-ken (太陽拳) means the “supreme sun fist,” “ultimate sunlight technique,” or “extreme yáng hands.”
But 太陽 just means the sun. When people read it, that's what they picture. 陽 is related to the sun, just as 陰 (yin) is related to the moon, but nobody calls the sun just yang/yō. Even in Chinese the sun is called 太陽 (taiyang, the same characters as taiyō).
The translation "extreme yang hands" is ridiculous. 拳 doesn't even mean "hands." 手 (te) is hand. You'll notice that the character for hand is inside the character for fist, since a fist is made from your hand. 拳 also doesn't mean technique.
Just for fun, in Japanese those names would actually be:
Supreme Sun Fist: 最高の太陽拳 (Saikō no Taiyō Ken)
Ultimate Sunlight Technique: 最高の日光術 (Saikō no Nikkō Jutsu)
Extreme Yang Hands: 極度の陽手 (Kyoku no Yōzu)
Again, just for fun, these names back-translated to Japanese:Kaboom wrote: I don't mind technique names being translated when they're translated well and even just mostly accurate. "Wolf Fang Fist" is good. "Spirit Bomb" is okay.
Spirit Bomb: 元気爆弾 (genki bakudan), or maybe 精爆 (seibaku), or even 魂爆 (konbaku)
Wolf Fang Fist: 狼牙拳 (rōga ken instead of rōga fūfū ken 狼牙風風拳)
Special Beam Cannon would be 特光線砲 (tokkōsen hō) or 特ビーム砲 (toku bīmu hō)
And hell, Destructo Disc would be 破壊ディスク (hakai disuku)
How many people really would have been offended/confused if Genki Dama had been translated as "Energy Ball" or "Spirit Ball" (a name they actually used in the Funi dub, except for Yamcha's sōkidan (操気弾, "manipulate ki bullet" )?Payne222 wrote: You have to take into context the time that it was being translated and being brought to the American public. A foreign cartoon talking about the Devil and death? Many parents would be apprehensive to let their children jump right into that. And that's perfectly ok, it's a cultural thing. Kinda like how Pokemon changed Brock's onigiri to donuts. At 5 years old I have no idea what the fuck onigiri was, so they adapted it a bit for the audience.
Last edited by Thouser on Mon May 11, 2015 6:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Like that bald punk? Killyin... You're talking about Killyin?!!" - Anime Labs
「他们並不是我孫兒... 是我弟弟。」 - 龜仙人
「他们並不是我孫兒... 是我弟弟。」 - 龜仙人
Re: What do you prefer for the attack names in sub/dubs?
Yeah, that's why I intentionally used the word "evil" instead of "demon" or "devil."
As for the Pokémon example... I don't think American kids would have been flabbergasted by the term "rice balls."
As for the Pokémon example... I don't think American kids would have been flabbergasted by the term "rice balls."
deviantART
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!
FanFic: DragonBall GT Revised [thread]
Powar Levuls: Main Series | Movies and Specials | GT
Nintendo/PSN/Steam: KaboomKrusader
ACNH Dream Address: DA-1637-4046-7415 ("SlamZone")
(Not) lost (enough) DB Super plots!
A handy video guide to Kanzenshuu-level grammar quality!