SSJGSSJ should be much stronger,,,it is actualy super saiyan + super saiyan god powers, so super saiyan god doesn't get any super saiyan powers on top of it...Doctor. wrote:To me, it simply sounds like:
Base Goku = Some of SSG's power
SSJ Goku in BoG = Close to SSG's full power (Beerus says in BoG that Goku managed to keep SSG's power without loosing TOO much, implying he lost some of it)
SSGSS = Literally just SSG's power + SS's power
So, kinda like
Base Goku in BoG/FnF: 3.5
SS Goku in BoG: 5
SSG Goku: 6
SSGSS Goku: 6
Beerus at 70%: 7
So what exactly is this SSGSS?
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Super Vegetto
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
I did say that SSGSS was SSG + SS... The point is that SS's power is so ridiculously small that it doesn't make a difference, putting SSG and SSGSS's power relatively equal.
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Super Vegetto
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Yeah it does seam like that,,,if we take it logical way and use 50x from super saiyan on super saiyan god it would be whole different story,,,but the problem is with Goku's statement of adding power and i had in mind that SSJGSSJ is just SSJG without help of others...Doctor. wrote:I did say that SSGSS was SSG + SS... The point is that SS's power is so ridiculously small that it doesn't make a difference, putting SSG and SSGSS's power relatively equal.
So your SSJGSS should be atleast 7 or 8 just to go with the flow...
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Super Saiyan Grades 2 & 3 gave boosts smaller than x2, yet they both gave significant boosts.Bullza wrote:If Super Saiyan God Goku in BoG = Base Goku in RoF (which is entirely possible) then why does this new SSGSS form give him such a minimal boost in power?
That doesnt really make much sense, the Shonen Jump article makes it sound like it's far superior and it was enough for Freeza to realise he was holding back.
But if he's still weaker than Beerus then his strength wouldn't even increase by so much as 50% making it in a way the worst transformation of them all.
So the small difference in power is just what the strength of Super Saiyan (3?) amounts to?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
We don't know that.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Super Saiyan Grades 2 & 3 gave boosts smaller than x2, yet they both gave significant boosts.Bullza wrote:If Super Saiyan God Goku in BoG = Base Goku in RoF (which is entirely possible) then why does this new SSGSS form give him such a minimal boost in power?
That doesnt really make much sense, the Shonen Jump article makes it sound like it's far superior and it was enough for Freeza to realise he was holding back.
But if he's still weaker than Beerus then his strength wouldn't even increase by so much as 50% making it in a way the worst transformation of them all.
So the small difference in power is just what the strength of Super Saiyan (3?) amounts to?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Even if we don't know that for sure, we know that the difference between 2 battle powers can be significant even if it's smaller than x2.dbgtFO wrote:We don't know that.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Super Saiyan Grades 2 & 3 gave boosts smaller than x2, yet they both gave significant boosts.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
A power level difference of x1.2 is significant as was seen with Vegeta and Dodoria though at it's not exactly consistent.
With ASSJ and USSJ they were just upgraded versions of the Super Saiyan that allowed them to push out more power.
The SSGSS is a full on transformation that appears to give such a small boost when compared to any other form. It boosts his strength by maybe a third? Just seems odd.
Did Toriyama write himself into a corner here by comparing him to Beerus in the last movie? It's like Toriyama still wants Beerus to be superior but he wasn't that superior enough for Goku to get a whole new form and yet still be weaker than him.
Now it seems like they should have said he was using 30% of his power when he fought Goku and not 70%.
With ASSJ and USSJ they were just upgraded versions of the Super Saiyan that allowed them to push out more power.
The SSGSS is a full on transformation that appears to give such a small boost when compared to any other form. It boosts his strength by maybe a third? Just seems odd.
Did Toriyama write himself into a corner here by comparing him to Beerus in the last movie? It's like Toriyama still wants Beerus to be superior but he wasn't that superior enough for Goku to get a whole new form and yet still be weaker than him.
Now it seems like they should have said he was using 30% of his power when he fought Goku and not 70%.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
But it's not an entirely new transformation, it's an upgraded version of the regular Super Saiyan form. And even though it gives a small boost compared to other forms, it's still the most powerful transformation so far (except for Super Saiyan 4, maybe).Bullza wrote:The SSGSS is a full on transformation that appears to give such a small boost when compared to any other form. It boosts his strength by maybe a third? Just seems odd.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
I can't see the Super Saiyan 4 as being stronger than it, didn't they say it was comparable to Super Vegito somewhere?
The form certainly didn't give him the boost over SSJ3 that SSJGod did anyway.
The form certainly didn't give him the boost over SSJ3 that SSJGod did anyway.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Well, it's complicated. If we go by the SS Vegetto >= SS4 Goku statement, SSG, and by extension SSGSS, is stronger than SS4. But if we go by Goku's statement in GT that Super Baby 1 is the strongest guy he's ever seen, and go by the Chozenshuu & XenoVerse, which place BoG in the same continuity with GT, then SS4 is stronger than SSG & SSGSS.Bullza wrote:I can't see the Super Saiyan 4 as being stronger than it, didn't they say it was comparable to Super Vegito somewhere?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
If you were to put the new movies and GT in the same timeline then yes it would be stronger but it's clearly not.
Unless Dragon Ball Super breaks down what the movies built up and rob Goku and Vegeta of their God power and other things just to try and fit them together then to me they will always be two separate timelines that branch off in different paths post Buu.
There is no SSG in the GT timeline. So I would see it as SSGSS being like 10x as strong as SSJ4.
Unless Dragon Ball Super breaks down what the movies built up and rob Goku and Vegeta of their God power and other things just to try and fit them together then to me they will always be two separate timelines that branch off in different paths post Buu.
There is no SSG in the GT timeline. So I would see it as SSGSS being like 10x as strong as SSJ4.
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
SSJ4 the transformation or SSJ4 as in Goku's level at SSJ4? Because if you really want to look at it Goku became vastly stronger in base in GT without SSJG. So the transformation of SSJ4 is arguably less impressive if you consider that Base Goku(Pre-EoZ), who was weaker than 100% Freeza, became stronger than SSJ Vegetto with SSJGod whereas Base Goku(Post-EoZ), who is arguably as strong as Boo arc SSJ3 Goku, only reached SSJ Vegetto levels with the SSJ4 transformation.Bullza wrote:If you were to put the new movies and GT in the same timeline then yes it would be stronger but it's clearly not.
Unless Dragon Ball Super breaks down what the movies built up and rob Goku and Vegeta of their God power and other things just to try and fit them together then to me they will always be two separate timelines that branch off in different paths post Buu.
There is no SSG in the GT timeline. So I would see it as SSGSS being like 10x as strong as SSJ4.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
But they are in the same timeline, according to BoG promotional info, Chozenshuu 4, and XenoVerse.Bullza wrote:If you were to put the new movies and GT in the same timeline then yes it would be stronger but it's clearly not.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
If that's the case then there are some serious issues. Considering SSJGSSJ is not a thing in GT. Also considering that any enemy above Boo wouldn't be much a challenge to SBG Goku. Not to mention that the SSJ forms have effectively lost their multiplier benefits which poses the question why Goku would ever go SSJ3 if it offers no benefit and actually munches on his stamina.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:But they are in the same timeline, according to BoG promotional info, Chozenshuu 4, and XenoVerse.Bullza wrote:If you were to put the new movies and GT in the same timeline then yes it would be stronger but it's clearly not.
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TheDevilsCorpse
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Chozenshu 4's timeline never says everything on it is in the same continuity. It could all just be "these are the dates when these things happen".
Xenoverse's story mode also specifically mentions that GT is in an alternate timeline. Character interactions being taken seriously during Vs. Mode and the Parallel Quests are debatable.
Promotional material from 2-3 years ago can also be questionable. We've had a new film already and a new series incoming, so any statements made at the time may no longer apply.
Xenoverse's story mode also specifically mentions that GT is in an alternate timeline. Character interactions being taken seriously during Vs. Mode and the Parallel Quests are debatable.
Promotional material from 2-3 years ago can also be questionable. We've had a new film already and a new series incoming, so any statements made at the time may no longer apply.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
This would mean that, somehow, Goku & Vegeta lost the power of Super Saiyan God. Or, the multipliers of the Super Saiyan forms returned, for some reason.Hitiro wrote:If that's the case then there are some serious issues. Considering SSJGSSJ is not a thing in GT. Also considering that any enemy above Boo wouldn't be much a challenge to SBG Goku. Not to mention that the SSJ forms have effectively lost their multiplier benefits which poses the question why Goku would ever go SSJ3 if it offers no benefit and actually munches on his stamina.
It's a timeline, not a list of stuff with their dates. They even bothered to include only movies that fit (though not all of them), and don't they mention that the events of different timelines (like Trunks') take place in different timelines?TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Chozenshu 4's timeline never says everything on it is in the same continuity. It could all just be "these are the dates when these things happen".
It doesn't say that BoG didn't happen in this alternate timeline though.TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Xenoverse's story mode also specifically mentions that GT is in an alternate timeline. Character interactions being taken seriously during Vs. Mode and the Parallel Quests are debatable.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Which would be silly still. Because if they were really at a disadvantage at any time they could whip out the God ritual. I mean they had several chances to do it.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:This would mean that, somehow, Goku & Vegeta lost the power of Super Saiyan God. Or, the multipliers of the Super Saiyan forms returned, for some reason.Hitiro wrote:If that's the case then there are some serious issues. Considering SSJGSSJ is not a thing in GT. Also considering that any enemy above Boo wouldn't be much a challenge to SBG Goku. Not to mention that the SSJ forms have effectively lost their multiplier benefits which poses the question why Goku would ever go SSJ3 if it offers no benefit and actually munches on his stamina.
There are timelines that show multiple universes events rather than a singular universes events.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:It's a timeline, not a list of stuff with their dates. They even bothered to include only movies that fit (though not all of them), and don't they mention that the events of different timelines (like Trunks') take place in different timelines?TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Chozenshu 4's timeline never says everything on it is in the same continuity. It could all just be "these are the dates when these things happen".
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SSJ2FutureGohan
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
Indisputable PROOF that GT follows BoG:
Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
No, that's just indisputable proof that a video game's writers decided to include some witty dialogue between characters whom we haven't seen meet under any other context.
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Re: So what exactly is this SSGSS?
There's surely no way BoG/RoF take place in the same time as GT.
There was no mention of Super Saiyan God's, Beerus, Whis or Frieza. Goku and Vegeta were Super Saiyans, Toriyama even said they probably wouldn't go SSJ2 or SSJ3 anymore and that would be referring to his vision of the timeline.
Frieza was a pansy and wasn't Gold. He was in a completely different looking Hell.
And so on. You could make arguments to try and tie them together but this DB Super is probably only going to further push them apart.
Xenoverse is just a game and really doesn't mean anything for them being tied together. I don't know what was said in Chozenshu or the promotional material though.
There was no mention of Super Saiyan God's, Beerus, Whis or Frieza. Goku and Vegeta were Super Saiyans, Toriyama even said they probably wouldn't go SSJ2 or SSJ3 anymore and that would be referring to his vision of the timeline.
Frieza was a pansy and wasn't Gold. He was in a completely different looking Hell.
And so on. You could make arguments to try and tie them together but this DB Super is probably only going to further push them apart.
Xenoverse is just a game and really doesn't mean anything for them being tied together. I don't know what was said in Chozenshu or the promotional material though.