Which Trunks is the strongest?

[Doctor.]

I wonder how strong Time Patrol Trunks is supposed to be. Does he even train anymore?

He was praised by Beerus and Whis for his power, as inconsistent and stupid that sounds.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

What feats does GT Trunks have again? What makes him extremely stronger than he was when he was in Boo arc?

I wonder how strong Time Patrol Trunks is supposed to be. Does he even train anymore?

I doubt he does hard training, he must have been very busy with rebuilding the Earth & his new job as a Time Patroller, since he hasn't achieved Super Saiyan 2 yet.

He was praised by Beerus and Whis for his power, as inconsistent and stupid that sounds.

This doesn't mean that Trunks is anywhere near Beerus. I mean, Beerus praised Vegeta in BoG as well.

[supercat]

It's highly unlikely that GT Trunks is SSJ3 tier. While even this feels like bit of a stretch, I would place him at around Super Perfect Cell tier.

As for Future Trunks, if he continues training with the same disciplined mindset he's displayed during the Cell Arc, it seems very plausible that he's likely reached some impressive levels of power. Since he is presumably the only Z-Fighter left to maintain peace and defend his planet, it wouldn't surprise me at all if he did train and grow stronger.

Between his dedication towards protecting his world and his righteous outlook, I can't see him slacking off or playing around like Kid / GT Trunks.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

What feats does GT Trunks have again? What makes him extremely stronger than he was when he was in Boo arc?

Goten (who Trunks is comparable to) was enough to give Base Gohan trouble as a Super Saiyan

Enraged Pan was strong enough to knock down Rild (stronger than Gohan-Buu), and Trunks wasn't completely sure if she was stronger than him.

[sintzu]

I would like it if Goten and Trunks actually keep up their training somewhat in Super, instead of completely dicking off like they did in GT.

Goku&Vegeta said in the final chapter that they don't train so if this is before that chapter then chances are they won't unless Toriyama ignores that part.

[dbzfan7]

Depends what you count.

Kid Trunks vs Last appearance Future Trunks. I give it to Kid Trunks. The boys are far stronger than people credit them for.

If we compare a hypothetical Future Trunks...then we got nothing as we don't know how much stronger Future Trunks is or if he is at all. If we use Xenoverse than Future Trunks I have above Kid Trunks. If we count GT Trunks then that all depends on how you scale GT and BOG as comparing GT and BOG levels is a mystery.

EOZ Trunks ain't stronger than Kid Trunks and is probably at the same level since he didn't train.

[shonenhikada]

Depends what you count.

Kid Trunks vs Last appearance Future Trunks. I give it to Kid Trunks. The boys are far stronger than people credit them for.

If we compare a hypothetical Future Trunks...then we got nothing as we don't know how much stronger Future Trunks is or if he is at all. If we use Xenoverse than Future Trunks I have above Kid Trunks. If we count GT Trunks then that all depends on how you scale GT and BOG as comparing GT and BOG levels is a mystery.

EOZ Trunks ain't stronger than Kid Trunks and is probably at the same level since he didn't train.

The boys were considered freeza level in Son Goku and friends. They are below future trunks first appearance.

[Darkprince410]

What feats does GT Trunks have again? What makes him extremely stronger than he was when he was in Boo arc?

Goten (who Trunks is comparable to) was enough to give Base Gohan trouble as a Super Saiyan

Enraged Pan was strong enough to knock down Rild (stronger than Gohan-Buu), and Trunks wasn't completely sure if she was stronger than him.

The only real "feat" that Trunks had was his dispatching of Yakon so easily, which at best puts his base strength in the same general tier as base Goku during the Buu Saga. You attest that all facts point otherwise, but there's really no evidence, solid or otherwise, that points to Rild being even remotely that strong.

The boys were considered freeza level in Son Goku and friends. They are below future trunks first appearance.

No specific form of Freeza is mentioned in comparison to their base battle powers. Furthermore, given that, in the Buu Saga, a weakened blast from Ssj Trunks was able to make #18 (who was far stronger than Freeza) freak out over how powerful the boys were, that Gohan believed that Goten and Trunks would soon pass him up, and that Vegeta showed a noticeable amount of difficulty in defending against Trunks attacks when he had Trunks try to hit him, that points all the more toward Trunks being stronger than his future counterpart during his first appearance.

[shonenhikada]

What feats does GT Trunks have again? What makes him extremely stronger than he was when he was in Boo arc?

Goten (who Trunks is comparable to) was enough to give Base Gohan trouble as a Super Saiyan

Enraged Pan was strong enough to knock down Rild (stronger than Gohan-Buu), and Trunks wasn't completely sure if she was stronger than him.

The only real "feat" that Trunks had was his dispatching of Yakon so easily, which at best puts his base strength in the same general tier as base Goku during the Buu Saga. You attest that all facts point otherwise, but there's really no evidence, solid or otherwise, that points to Rild being even remotely that strong.

The boys were considered freeza level in Son Goku and friends. They are below future trunks first appearance.

No specific form of Freeza is mentioned in comparison to their base battle powers. Furthermore, given that, in the Buu Saga, a weakened blast from Ssj Trunks was able to make #18 (who was far stronger than Freeza) freak out over how powerful the boys were, that Gohan believed that Goten and Trunks would soon pass him up, and that Vegeta showed a noticeable amount of difficulty in defending against Trunks attacks when he had Trunks try to hit him, that points all the more toward Trunks being stronger than his future counterpart during his first appearance.

The most common form of Freeza that was seen by his henchman was his first form. Tarble someone who had little exposure to Freeza's empire referred to Abo and Kado to be around Freeza level. Indicating that they were at first form frieza pl (530,000).

Freeza said no one alive has seen his 3rd form and only a handful of people have ever witnessed his second form.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

You attest that all facts point otherwise, but there's really no evidence, solid or otherwise, that points to Rild being even remotely that strong.

Except for Rild being stronger than Gohan who's stronger than his Z-self who was already a lot stronger than Super Buu

Get your silly bias out of here.

[Doctor.]

And Gohan is stronger than his Z-self, becauseeee....? What exactly?

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Because he didn't neglect his training in between Z and GT?

[Darkprince410]

The most common form of Freeza that was seen by his henchman was his first form. Tarble someone who had little exposure to Freeza's empire referred to Abo and Kado to be around Freeza level. Indicating that they were at first form Freeza pl (530,000).

Freeza said no one alive has seen his 3rd form and only a handful of people have ever witnessed his second form.

Tarble does establish though that he acquired information regarding Freeza being defeated by a Saiya-jin and learned of where said Saiya-jin was, so there's definitely room for them to have informed him of Freeza's more powerful states (either from their own brief exposure to them after their resurrection, or through Dende telling them). Additionally, remember that it took Goku transforming into a Super Saiya-jin to convince Tarble that they were capable of handling Abo and Cado, and even then he said that it'd "probably" be enough. If Goku simply raised his battle power to one million, that'd be more than enough to show that he was stronger than them if their strength was merely 530,000.

Except for Rild being stronger than Gohan who's stronger than his Z-self who was already a lot stronger than Super Buu

Except that it really just doesn't fit what's shown. How can Goten and Trunks, both established to have slacked off over the years, manage to reach Gohan Buu levels of power in their base form when they weren't remotely close to that beforehand? Not to mention that you saying that you think he's at that level is saying that you think Piccolo is suddenly in Gohan Buu levels of power too, when there is nothing remotely indicating that he did or even could have reached that level of strength in fifteen years time, especially when he couldn't even reach Ssj2 levels of strength over the course of seven years.

There's a difference between "silly bias" and saying when something literally doesn't work with what all evidence is given.

Hell, there's precedence in the notion that the Perfect Files is mistaken, since there's at least one other clear error with the guide book. It comments that Goku only transformed into a Super Saiya-jin 2 one time in GT, and that was for the new opening, when it's clear that he transformed briefly during his fight with Rild's final form to dissipate the liquid metal ball that Rild shot at him. His hair clearly alters from his Ssj to his Ssj2 state, and it can't be attributed to the aura blowing his hair up or anything, since during the close ups, there's no indication of his hair flapping about or anything that was indicative of it being "blown back".

So if there's an error there, what's to say that there's not an error in it reporting that Gohan hadn't neglected his training? Would explain everything perfectly to have his strength dropped down substantially (which 10 guaranteed years of slacking off would accomplish) and not result in the GT characters having ludicrous levels of power when there's just no way they could obtain that much from where they were at come the end of Z.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Except that it really just doesn't fit what's shown. How can Goten and Trunks, both established to have slacked off over the years, manage to reach Gohan Buu levels of power in their base form when they weren't remotely close to that beforehand? Not to mention that you saying that you think he's at that level is saying that you think Piccolo is suddenly in Gohan Buu levels of power too, when there is nothing remotely indicating that he did or even could have reached that level of strength in fifteen years time, especially when he couldn't even reach Ssj2 levels of strength over the course of seven years.

Power is determined around plot. It seems you can't get that through your head. You can't just make arbitrary rules like Piccolo didn't get this strong in x years, so now he can't get this strong in x years because I say so!

We're also talking about a Toei production, where they hax Goku from weaker than Base Gotenks post to stronger than Ultimate Gohan. They don't give a shit about logic, they make characters as strong as they want.

I don't recall anything saying Goten and Trunks slacked during GT. I actually recall Trunks saying he still occasionally trains. I'll have too search for that later.

There's a difference between "silly bias" and saying when something literally doesn't work with what all evidence is given.

The only reason it "doesn't work" is because of your made up arbitrary rules

Hell, there's precedence in the notion that the Perfect Files is mistaken, since there's at least one other clear error with the guide book. It comments that Goku only transformed into a Super Saiya-jin 2 one time in GT, and that was for the new opening, when it's clear that he transformed briefly during his fight with Rild's final form to dissipate the liquid metal ball that Rild shot at him. His hair clearly alters from his Ssj to his Ssj2 state, and it can't be attributed to the aura blowing his hair up or anything, since during the close ups, there's no indication of his hair flapping about or anything that was indicative of it being "blown back".

And it could easily be talking about major appearances instead of just a short transformation that lasted for seconds. I also don't recommend straws for your oral fetish. Try chewing gum. It's better for your teeth.

So if there's an error there, what's to say that there's not an error in it reporting that Gohan hadn't neglected his training?

Because there's nothing saying Gohan neglecting his training is wrong.

You're literally arguing with the creators of the series.

Would explain everything perfectly to have his strength dropped down substantially (which 10 guaranteed years of slacking off would accomplish)

You're obviously ignoring the intent of the statement.

We're told Gohan kept training so we can believe he's massively weaker than his Z self? Give me a break.

Let's hear an 'explanation' for why Gohan still has his Ultimate-exclusive traits if he lost the form.

and not result in the GT characters having ludicrous levels of power when there's just no way they could obtain that much from where they were at come the end of Z.

And this is what I mean by bias. "Over powered characters" seems to be a turn off for fans, so they like to make things up that aren't supported by anything to avoid them. It's quite silly.

[dbzfan7]

Depends what you count.

Kid Trunks vs Last appearance Future Trunks. I give it to Kid Trunks. The boys are far stronger than people credit them for.

If we compare a hypothetical Future Trunks...then we got nothing as we don't know how much stronger Future Trunks is or if he is at all. If we use Xenoverse than Future Trunks I have above Kid Trunks. If we count GT Trunks then that all depends on how you scale GT and BOG as comparing GT and BOG levels is a mystery.

EOZ Trunks ain't stronger than Kid Trunks and is probably at the same level since he didn't train.

The boys were considered freeza level in Son Goku and friends. They are below future trunks first appearance.

They were not considered Freeza level, they chumped Abo and Cado. They didn't even go Super Saiyan either so then you have the base kids fighting Freeza level if we look at it your way. In the manga they chump them so hard Aka is immediately formed. Goten and Trunks give Boo arc Gohan and Vegeta a much rougher time than if they were that weak. To put that into perspective, 16 can't do shit to Semi Perfect Cell. Semi Perfect Cell can't do shit to Cell arc Vegeta. Both Goten and Trunks actually make Gohan and Vegeta have to keep their guard up. Gohan even says the boys will soon surpass him if he isn't careful. Being at Trunks level isn't even near Gohan's current level.

[supercat]

The form of Buu that Goku was referring to during their first encounter with Rildo is likely Kid Buu, as this is the Buu that Goku is probably most familiar with. Plus, if Goku was referring to Buuhan, I feel like he would have implied how Rildo was even more powerful than Majin Buu was during the time he absorbed Piccolo, Gohan, Goten, and Trunks. In any case, assuming that Base Rildo is a bit higher than Kid Buu, Final Form Rildo should be at the very least around Buuhan.

GT Piccolo is strongly implied to be above all of the fighters down in hell which includes HF#17 and Rildo. Therefore, GT Piccolo surpassing Buuhan doesn't seem unreasonable at all.

I can see how GT SSJ / SSJ2 Gohan would be stronger than his Ultimate form in Z, but I do have a hard time believing that GT Base Gohan is at the same or level, or even stronger than his Ultimate form from the Buu arc. Therefore, SSJ Goten giving Base Gohan (most likely heavily suppressed) a challenge is probably no more of a feat than standing up to Super Perfect Cell. I wouldn't mind putting Goten and Trunks even lower than this, but assuming how GT Base Gohan wasn't one-shotted by Base Rildo (who is > Kid Buu), it tells me that even in his base form, GT Gohan should be at the very least around Super Perfect Cell. Additionally, it seems very plausible that Gohan was holding back a good amount against his brother, possibly suppressing himself far below Super Perfect Cell. It was seemed pretty clear that Gohan really didn't want to hurt Goten.

My theory on how GT SSJ /SSJ2 Gohan is above his Ultimate form (Buu Arc) is that he probably returned to his original way of powering up -- turning SSJ and no longer utilizing his Ultimate power up (for unknown reasons).

If we assume that Gohan had the ability to go SSJ the whole time he was in his Ultimate form, then it could be a possibility that the multipliers for SSJ were no longer relevant. Meaning, the minute increase in power that was obtained through the transformation may not have been worth the strain that SSJ causes. However, through training, it could be a possibility that Gohan found a way to tap into a greater power of SSJ, with multipliers that would be deemed notable enough to justify the process of transforming again.

Because he is choosing to utilize SSJ / SSJ2 again, the power he was expressing through his Ultimate form is now probably expressed in the form of SSJ/ SSJ2. He could probably tap into even more power than what he was able to leverage in his Ultimate base form, only now he probably chooses to do so in his SSJ / SSJ2. In a sense it could be speculated that the Ultimate form is not exactly Gohan's base form, but almost like the usage of high levels of his power while taking on the appearance of his base form and even enjoying the lack of strain that the base form has to offer. This is just my speculation on the whole Ultimate / SSJ matter.

In regards to how powerful GT Trunks is, if we assume that his base form is around Goku's base form from the Buu Arc, considering how his transformations are only limited to SSJ, I guess I could see him rivaling Super Perfect Cell at this point.

With that said, if Future Trunks kept up with his training, I don't find it unlikely that he would reach levels that would put Super Perfect Cell to shame with utter ease.

[Darkprince410]

Power is determined around plot. It seems you can't get that through your head. You can't just make arbitrary rules like Piccolo didn't get this strong in x years, so now he can't get this strong in x years because I say so!

Yet him being that strong offers nothing to the plot, and even then, when a character gets stronger, there's at least something stated indicating that any real kind of training was being done.

We're also talking about a Toei production, where they hax Goku from weaker than Base Gotenks post to stronger than Ultimate Gohan. They don't give a shit about logic, they make characters as strong as they want.

In the same vein, they've also been shown to just weaken other characters to make Goku out to be the stronger too, with no in-universe reason ever given.

And it could easily be talking about major appearances instead of just a short transformation that lasted for seconds. I also don't recommend straws for your oral fetish. Try chewing gum. It's better for your teeth.

Why would that be the case then if they're referencing something not even in the show? The entry specifically states that he only transformed one time, in the opening for the show. That makes no sense to reference that and not reference a time that he used it during the course of the series.

We're told Gohan kept training so we can believe he's massively weaker than his Z self? Give me a break.

We're told by Toriyama that he didn't train during the ten years between the time skip (and this isn't even taking into account Revival of F, where he's dropped drastically in terms of strength) and instead focused on his scholarly studies, so even "if" he did train for the five years between the end of Z and the beginning of GT, that's still more catch up work to get back up to his Buu Saga power than anything else.

Let's hear an 'explanation' for why Gohan still has his Ultimate-exclusive traits if he lost the form.

You mean like how he transforms into a Super Saiya-jin for actual battle purposes, when such shouldn't remotely be necessary if he had his power-up? The whole point of the power-up was that it gave him access to all his strength without the need to transform, so him transforming and growing stronger indicates there's something wrong with the power-up, or that it's simply not there anymore.

And this is what I mean by bias. "Over powered characters" seems to be a turn off for fans, so they like to make things up that aren't supported by anything to avoid them. It's quite silly.

But here's the thing. I would gladly accept them all being that powerful if there was solid proof that they were. However, when you have a source pointing to Ssj Vegetto being stronger than Super Saiya-jin 4 Goku, that makes it really hard for Goku, Gohan, and the others to be sitting above Gohan Buu in their base forms and that still working.

[Birusu16]

GT Trunks is easily the strongest.

[SSJ2FutureGohan]

Yet him being that strong offers nothing to the plot, and even then, when a character gets stronger, there's at least something stated indicating that any real kind of training was being done.

The indication Piccolo got so strong is him surviving a Kamehameha from Gohan, if you haven't realized.

In the same vein, they've also been shown to just weaken other characters to make Goku out to be the stronger too, with no in-universe reason ever given.

No, I'm pretty sure they just make Goku stronger. Unless you're referring to Movie 8 (Broly)? The only reason Gohan was nerfed there was because the movie was made before Gohan being the strongest was established in the manga. Toei was most likely assuming the status quo from the Android saga applied.

Why would that be the case then if they're referencing something not even in the show? The entry specifically states that he only transformed one time, in the opening for the show. That makes no sense to reference that and not reference a time that he used it during the course of the series.

I can't give you the real reason, that was just a guess. I could've just been an oversight, a very slight error. Using that and applying it to the Gohan tidbit makes no sense, the guidebook is from the creators of the series, I doubt that tidbit would 'accidentally' be put in there.

We're told by Toriyama that he didn't train during the ten years between the time skip (and this isn't even taking into account Revival of F, where he's dropped drastically in terms of strength) and instead focused on his scholarly studies, so even "if" he did train for the five years between the end of Z and the beginning of GT, that's still more catch up work to get back up to his Buu Saga power than anything else.

Well we're told that now during the new movies, back when GT was first around I'm pretty sure it was never explicitly stated Gohan didn't train, and it we just assumed he didn't since he was Gohan.

You mean like how he transforms into a Super Saiya-jin for actual battle purposes, when such shouldn't remotely be necessary if he had his power-up? The whole point of the power-up was that it gave him access to all his strength without the need to transform, so him transforming and growing stronger indicates there's something wrong with the power-up, or that it's simply not there anymore.

This just completely avoided my question, lol.

The section he's mentioned to train in is the same one that mentions he uses Super Saiyan, which ,if anything, implies he unlocked it again because of his training.

But here's the thing. I would gladly accept them all being that powerful if there was solid proof that they were.

The proof would be Gohan. If Piccolo's strong enough to survive a Kamehameha from Gohan, that's the indication he's now super powerful.

Speaking of that scene, Piccolo tells Gohan that KHH hit him very hard, and that Gohan's grown very strong. Why would Piccolo say that if Gohan is nowhere near his prime and much weaker from when Piccolo last saw him fight?

Also, as for 'solid proof', what is the 'solid proof' Gohan got weaker?

However, when you have a source pointing to Ssj Vegetto being stronger than Super Saiya-jin 4 Goku, that makes it really hard for Goku, Gohan, and the others to be sitting above Gohan Buu in their base forms and that still working.

Except we don't. We have an unsourced Korean anime comic talking about Vegetto in general. The comic referencing only Super Vegetto is forced interpretation by people who refuse to accept SVB1 indirectly being stated to be above Super Vegetto twice.

[IDreamtIWasABee]

Piccolo-Boo, people.

Future Trunks by a country mile.