Is Goku really not a superman in anyway?

[rereboy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgozkfGrE5w

Goku should do that and move in with King Kai.

Yeah, that would teach her not to disrespect his pride as a super macho man and tell him what to do.

[Alex9196]

@rereboy

I am not a fan of anything, and I dont care if Goku is an "alpha male" or not.

But he didn't just agree to let Gohan get an "education". From day 1, he let ChiChi decide what his son is going to be one day, without saying anything?

And he wasn't doing a "bit" of work. If i remember correctly, ChiChi wanted him to work for 6 months.

[Rocketman]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GEJhVaEf9ko&t=2m17s

Don't start none, won't be none.

[rereboy]

@rereboy

I am not a fan of anything, and I dont care if Goku is an "alpha male" or not.

But he didn't just agree to let Gohan get an "education". From day 1, he let ChiChi decide what his son is going to be one day, without saying anything?

And he wasn't doing a "bit" of work. If i remember correctly, ChiChi wanted him to work for 6 months.

Yes, it's an academic education. They can't decide what Gohan will become in the future. That's Gohan's decision. They can only teach him stuff and help him develop. What you are saying is that Goku should have opposed Chichi gaving him an academic education and not let her get away with it, and should have instead insisted on having his 4 year old endure martial arts training instead, because that would be standing up for himself and have pride which is good... somehow.

And 6 months of work to help earn money for his family that hardly has any money left? How exactly is that a big deal?

[Alex9196]

@rereboy

Well, it is Gohan's decission what he is going to be, but what ChiChi did was not an education. She let her 4 year old son study around the clock and always said he has to be a scientist or whatever one day.

Besides I dont get how they need money, Goku survived his whole childhood without money. They live in the middle of the woods, where they can get plenty of food without money. Also they could just ask Bulma which is like the richest person on the planet.

[ABED]

The difference between the two is just perspective and since everyone thinks they are right, the difference between pride and arrogance becomes pretty much just subjective

But not everyone is right. Vegeta often claims he's the strongest, that doesn't make him right.

pride implies a sense of superiority and whether it's justified or not that isn't very good in the long run which is why it's historically considered to be a cardinal sin.

No, it means a sense of self efficacy. It's "I can do this" not "i'm better than so and so". You are confusing pride and arrogance they are two different concepts. If in fact it was historically a cardinal sin, that's due to relgion.

[rereboy]

The difference between the two is just perspective and since everyone thinks they are right, the difference between pride and arrogance becomes pretty much just subjective

But not everyone is right. Vegeta often claims he's the strongest, that doesn't make him right.

Something being "earned" is not something objective, so, in this case, its always a matter of perspective. An even if everybody agreed that its indeed earned or deserved, that doesn't change the fact that pride implies a sense of being superior that in the long run is not that good since we all should aspire to be more like Goku in that regard and less like Vegeta.

[ABED]

The difference between the two is just perspective and since everyone thinks they are right, the difference between pride and arrogance becomes pretty much just subjective

But not everyone is right. Vegeta often claims he's the strongest, that doesn't make him right.

Something being "earned" is not something objective, so, in this case, its always a matter of perspective. An even if everybody agreed that its indeed earned or deserved, that doesn't change the fact that pride implies a sense of being superior that in the long run is not that good since we all should aspire to be more like Goku in that regard and less like Vegeta.

How does it all imply a sense of being superior? If you truly have pride, it has nothing to do with superiority over others. It comes from achieving goals. For instance, Goku would rightfully feel a sense of pride after training hard to become stronger and achieving that goal. That's completely different from Vegeta's false sense of self worth he gets from dominating people.

[rereboy]

@rereboy

Well, it is Gohan's decission what he is going to be, but what ChiChi did was not an education. She let her 4 year old son study around the clock and always said he has to be a scientist or whatever one day.

Source? All that the manga shows us is that she is giving them an academic education, we don't even have any details regarding it.

Besides I dont get how they need money, Goku survived his whole childhood without money. They live in the middle of the woods, where they can get plenty of food without money. Also they could just ask Bulma which is like the richest person on the planet.

So, your argument is that they should live in the mountains like monkeys, just so that Goku doesn't let Chichi give Gohan an academic education or just leech of their friends? How are those situations better for Goku's pride?

[Alex9196]

@rereboy

Just because you live in the woods and search your own food instead of going to the grocery store doesn't make you a monkey, and yes, I think it would be better for his pride.

Besides it wouldn't hurt Bulma to give them a bid of money.

And it is shown in the Anime if i remember correctly, as far as I recall even in many occasions.

[rereboy]

How does it all imply a sense of being superior? If you truly have pride, it has nothing to do with superiority over others. It comes from achieving goals. For instance, Goku would rightfully feel a sense of pride after training hard to become stronger and achieving that goal. That's completely different from Vegeta's false sense of self worth he gets from dominating people.

pride
[prahyd]
noun
1.
a high or inordinate opinion of one's own dignity, importance, merit, or superiority, whether as cherished in the mind or as displayed in bearing, conduct, etc.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/pride

Goku, because he is not prideful, and thus is mostly at peace and satisfied with himself, when he achieves his goals, he just continues to be at peace and satisfied with himself. And if he didn't he would just say, well next time I'll try harder. His opinion of himself doesn't really get bolstered, like it does with someone prideful. Someone more prideful than Goku, when achieving his goals, would get an ego boost, but Goku basically doesn't.

And sure, you can have other definitions for pride which just focus on "feeling good about one-self" but that's just focusing on a portion of what the term entails.

You are confusing pride and arrogance they are two different concepts.

No, I'm not. Like I said before, pride is deserved or earned, while arrogance is not. But that doesn't really change anything I said regarding pride.

@rereboy

Just because you live in the woods and search your own food instead of going to the grocery store doesn't make you a monkey, and yes, I think it would be better for his pride.

Well, monkeys do live in the woods and search for their own food, but ok. Whatever it takes to stop Chichi from giving Gohan an academic education and having Goku with some pride at the end of the day.

Besides it wouldn't hurt Bulma to give them a bid of money.

So, he would go live to the woods to preserve his pride, but constantly asking for money wouldn't be a problem from a pride point of view because Bulma has lots?

And it is shown in the Anime if i remember correctly, as far as I recall even in many occasions.

In filler, then? I can't recall any moment in filler where Chichi made Gohan study round the clock, especially at age 4, but ok.

[ABED]

You didn't give a definition of pride, you gave a definition of arrogance. Two completely different concepts. The definition lumps in two different concepts. There's a fundamental difference between having a high opinion of one's self and having an inordinate view of one's self. It's not a mere matter of degree. That's a bad definition.

Goku, because he is not prideful, and thus is mostly at peace and satisfied with himself, when he achieves his goals, he just continues to be at peace and satisfied with himself. And if he didn't he would just say, well next time I'll try harder. His opinion of himself doesn't really get bolstered, like it does with someone prideful.

No, that's exactly what it means to have pride, he has a high view of his ability, he's confident, but if he comes short, he recognizes the facts of reality and tries harder, learning from any mistakes he might have made.

[rereboy]

You didn't give a definition of pride, you gave a definition of arrogance. Two completely different concepts. The definition lumps in two different concepts. There's a fundamental difference between having a high opinion of one's self and having an inordinate view of one's self. It's not a mere matter of degree. That's a bad definition.

If you say so.

No, that's exactly what it means to have pride, he has a high view of his ability, he's confident, but if he comes short, he recognizes the facts of reality and tries harder, learning from any mistakes he might have made.

A prideful person will try again because not achieving his goals is a blow to his pride and his sense of self worth and he seeks to reclaim that sense. Goku will try again not because he had his pride affected but because he simply wants to and enjoys it. So, no, that's not pride.

[ABED]

You didn't give a definition of pride, you gave a definition of arrogance. Two completely different concepts. The definition lumps in two different concepts. There's a fundamental difference between having a high opinion of one's self and having an inordinate view of one's self. It's not a mere matter of degree. That's a bad definition.

If you say so.

No, that's exactly what it means to have pride, he has a high view of his ability, he's confident, but if he comes short, he recognizes the facts of reality and tries harder, learning from any mistakes he might have made.

A prideful person will try again because not achieving his goals is a blow to his pride and his sense of self worth and he seeks to reclaim that sense. Goku will try again not because he had his pride affected but because he simply wants to and enjoys it. So, no, that's not pride.

A person will often try again, not because they're insecure, but they honestly think that with a different strategy or trying harder they can achieve their goal.

No, "if you say so", that's correct, you can't lump in two completely different ideas and call it the same thing. That undercuts the concept. Can you really not see how your definition would be confusing?

If Goku doesn't have pride, what does he have?

[Alex9196]

@rereboy

I have to admit, if he wouldn't work because of pride, but take money from Bulma, it wouldn't be very pridefull either. but in the "Goku goes working" case, pride isn't even the biggest factor that annoys me. It's more unjust and a waste of time for him.

[GokuRules987]

If Goku only cared about fighting then he wouldnt be a pure hearted in no way. Even if he doesnt really understand that fighting is violence it doesn't mean that he is not being violent! Period!
Goku fights because he cares about the earth and everyone on it. and thats why he constantly holds back so that he doesnt blow up the earth, If goku fought any of his villains in space, then they would have been finished in 2 seconds with Goku's galaxy busting kamehamaha!

[Lord Beerus]

If goku fought any of his villains in space, then they would have been finished in 2 seconds with Goku's galaxy busting kamehamaha!

Goku has a galaxy busting Kamehameha? I never knew that. Please, tell me more.

[Rocketman]

When Goku was fighting Buu, his deflected Kamehameha blew up a Ford Galaxy.

[Friezacooler]

When Goku was fighting Buu, his deflected Kamehameha blew up a Ford Galaxy.

Which Buu?

[GokuRules987]

If goku fought any of his villains in space, then they would have been finished in 2 seconds with Goku's galaxy busting kamehamaha!

Goku has a galaxy busting Kamehameha? I never knew that. Please, tell me more.

Why? Goku doesnt need to blow up any galaxies since he can just concentrate those attacks on the atomic level just like he killed golden frieza with his kamehameha who at the same time happened to survive earth explosion.