Strength of alien champion from Super episode 2?

[supercat]

Reasonably speaking, I'd say he's probably on par with Nappa, but could potentially be up there with the likes of Zarbon and Dodoria.

Seeing as how Frieza casually ruled with an iron fist while luxuriously lounging around in his first form, it seems a large handful of planets are inhabited by warriors who are substantially weaker than the Planet Trade Organization's top fighters. While Frieza's empire didn't quite encompass the entire universe, if a fighter stronger than Ginyu hadn't already emerged from one or more of the several planets they've had the privilege of conquering, it's pretty unlikely one would sporadically appear out of nowhere.

[h0kuten]

Candidly speaking, that alien could be anywhere in terms of power; however, if he sat in the same realm of strength as one of the strongest elite fighting forces in the universe, he likely would have attracted some attention.

It's not like Freeza's empire covered the entire universe or anything -- it certainly didn't by the time Beerus woke up, anyway, considering that without Freeza himself to lead it his army hadn't been doing so well. Heck, we already saw one example of a planet Freeza hadn't already conquered which was home to a Ginyu Force level fighter -- Namek, with Nail being on or above the level of Recoome and company. So it's entirely possible that some random alien on a middle-of-nowhere world that nobody even bothered to investigate could be on par with the Ginyu Force and nobody would ever know -- being Super Saiyan level is another matter of course, and he's certainly not SSj3 level or random people in the afterlife would be sensing him, but I don't see anything wrong with some of the strongest random alien fighters being as strong as or stronger than the Ginyu Force. I mean, that's literally the exact backstory of each Ginyu Force member -- they're super-strong mutants compared to the rest of their kind.

Heck, it's entirely possible that there's random aliens out there who are starting to approach the 1,000,000 mark, or at least surpass the 530,000 level that first-form Freeza had. Doesn't Freeza describe his third form as the one that nobody's ever seen before -- which would mean that someone he fought previously was strong enough to make him use his second form?

But yeah -- the alien Beerus fought could be pretty much anywhere in the pre-Super Saiyan levels of power, from Raditz-ish all the way up to the low single-digit millions, without contradicting anything or causing problems with other statements. It's pretty much impossible to even guess an exact power level, or even a range that isn't super broad, with any accuracy. Relying on stuff like fire and electricity kind of makes me think he's probably not all that strong, though -- like maybe somewhere in the lower Saiyan Saga range at best. I don't think attacks like that would be all that effective compared to regular ki blasts beyond that point, unless they're magic-based (not just "normal" fire) like Dabura's fireballs.

This response makes the most sense.

~Frieza never even knew about Nail.
~Abo & Cado were comparable to the Ginyu Force.
~There was both a previous Ssj & SsjG.
~Someone, somewhere, forced Frieza to use his second form.

So IMO he could be up to 900,000.

[supercat]

Candidly speaking, that alien could be anywhere in terms of power; however, if he sat in the same realm of strength as one of the strongest elite fighting forces in the universe, he likely would have attracted some attention.

It's not like Freeza's empire covered the entire universe or anything -- it certainly didn't by the time Beerus woke up, anyway, considering that without Freeza himself to lead it his army hadn't been doing so well. Heck, we already saw one example of a planet Freeza hadn't already conquered which was home to a Ginyu Force level fighter -- Namek, with Nail being on or above the level of Recoome and company. So it's entirely possible that some random alien on a middle-of-nowhere world that nobody even bothered to investigate could be on par with the Ginyu Force and nobody would ever know -- being Super Saiyan level is another matter of course, and he's certainly not SSj3 level or random people in the afterlife would be sensing him, but I don't see anything wrong with some of the strongest random alien fighters being as strong as or stronger than the Ginyu Force. I mean, that's literally the exact backstory of each Ginyu Force member -- they're super-strong mutants compared to the rest of their kind.

Heck, it's entirely possible that there's random aliens out there who are starting to approach the 1,000,000 mark, or at least surpass the 530,000 level that first-form Freeza had. Doesn't Freeza describe his third form as the one that nobody's ever seen before -- which would mean that someone he fought previously was strong enough to make him use his second form?

But yeah -- the alien Beerus fought could be pretty much anywhere in the pre-Super Saiyan levels of power, from Raditz-ish all the way up to the low single-digit millions, without contradicting anything or causing problems with other statements. It's pretty much impossible to even guess an exact power level, or even a range that isn't super broad, with any accuracy. Relying on stuff like fire and electricity kind of makes me think he's probably not all that strong, though -- like maybe somewhere in the lower Saiyan Saga range at best. I don't think attacks like that would be all that effective compared to regular ki blasts beyond that point, unless they're magic-based (not just "normal" fire) like Dabura's fireballs.

This response makes the most sense.

~Freeza never even knew about Nail.
~Abo & Cado were comparable to the Ginyu Force.
~There was both a previous Ssj & SsjG.
~Someone, somewhere, forced Freeza to use his second form.

So IMO he could be up to 900,000.

In comparison to the Z-Fighters, 900,000 may be a joke, but compared to the rest of the universe, it's still quite a formidable level of power. King Kai was absolutely terrified of Frieza in his first form, and was basically deeming him as an unstoppable threat that should never be provoked. If some random alien was walking around taking out dinosaurs with a power level that nearly doubled that, I'm pretty sure Kai would have caught wind of this.

Somewhere in the range of 4,000 - 200,000 sounds fairly logical in my opinion. Quite frankly, even the higher end of that spectrum may work, just as long as he's a decent amount below First Form Frieza.

[h0kuten]

King Kai never caught wind of any of the fighters I stated above. He also never even knew about the Super Saiyan God, a power that far surpasses Super Saiyan 3. So to say a Ssj3 level fighter isn't possible because he would be sensed isn't valid any-more.

Not to mention the previous Super Saiyan God has godly Chi and it can only be sensed from other gods or Kai's. So because King Kai never sensed someone who would stick out from the crowd doesn't mean a level of power surpassing Frieza didn't exist.

[Draconic]

King Kai never caught wind of any of the fighters I stated above. He also never even knew about the Super Saiyan God, a power that far surpasses Super Saiyan 3. So to say a Ssj3 level fighter isn't possible because he would be sensed isn't valid any-more.

Not to mention the previous Super Saiyan God has godly Chi and it can only be sensed from other gods or Kai's. So because King Kai never sensed someone who would stick out from the crowd doesn't mean a level of power surpassing Freeza didn't exist.

Also, King Kai is the Kai of the North Galaxy and we don't know what galaxy the alien is part of. The Universe is still a huge part and King Kai only oversees a fourth of it. And Freeza was actively conquering planets. The little alien was just a powerful one on a unimportant planet. It makes sense why he wouldn't bring any attention to him, unlike the one who called himself "the Emperor of the Universe".

[Galan007]

I dunno. 1st form Freeza was just so far above everyone else(until the Saiyans started zenkai'ing the shit out of themselves) that's it's hard to imagine him being surpassed by some random, unnamed creature on some random, unnamed world.

My rationale:
Saiyans were regarded as an extremely powerful warrior-race well above the 'norm', and Vegeta, with a max BP of 18k, was the strongest among them by a wide margin. Zarbon and Dodoria, with BPs between 20-30k, were considered abnormally powerful even by Saiyan standards. The Ginyu Force was regarded as the universe's top-tier elite warriors, and Recoome/Burter/Jeice each had a BP of ~40k, with the Captain himself at 120k. On that note, even Freeza mentioned to Goku that he was surprised anyone else in the universe surpassed Captain Ginyu... So at the time, he wasn't aware of anyone/thing else with a BP approaching 120k.

That said, I think Toriyama's intent was: 1st form Freeza(530k)>>>>Captain Ginyu(120k)>>>the rest of the universe. Granted, the feral world that harbored the Alien Champion was likely well off the beaten path, but with all the intel at Freeza's disposal, I'd think if a species existed that could amass a BP in the hundreds of thousands(and/or millions) upon transforming, word of them would have definitely trickled back to Freeza.

Also, I know Super is set several years after Freeza's defeat, but those primitive creatures certainly didn't come off as the training type... So I would assume they possess roughly the same power now as they did back when Freeza was in office. /shrug

[supercat]

I dunno. 1st form Freeza was just so far above everyone else(until the Saiyans started zenkai'ing the shit out of themselves) that's it's hard to imagine him being surpassed by some random, unnamed creature on some random, unnamed world.

My rationale:
Saiyans were regarded as an extremely powerful warrior-race well above the 'norm', and Vegeta, with a max BP of 18k, was the strongest among them by a wide margin. Zarbon and Dodoria, with BPs between 20-30k, were considered abnormally powerful even by Saiyan standards. The Ginyu Force was regarded as the universe's top-tier elite warriors, and Recoome/Burter/Jeice each had a BP of ~40k, with the Captain himself at 120k. On that note, even Freeza mentioned to Goku that he was surprised anyone else in the universe surpassed Captain Ginyu... So at the time, he wasn't aware of anyone/thing else with a BP approaching 120k.

That said, I think Toriyama's intent was: 1st form Freeza(530k)>>>>Captain Ginyu(120k)>>>the rest of the universe. Granted, the feral world that harbored the Alien Champion was likely well off the beaten path, but with all the intel at Freeza's disposal, I'd think if a species existed that could amass a BP in the hundreds of thousands(and/or millions) upon transforming, word of them would have definitely trickled back to Freeza.

Also, I know Super is set several years after Freeza's defeat, but those primitive creatures certainly didn't come off as the training type... So I would assume they possess roughly the same power now as they did back when Freeza was in office. /shrug

Very well formulated response. From a plot standpoint, there wouldn't have been all this buildup around the Planet Trade Organization if some random primitive alien was roaming around with a power level that could easily trump their star players. Just because he has cool techniques, or Beerus refrained from instantly killing him, doesn't mean he's automatically stronger than a reputable warrior race who had established themselves as one of the most prominent forces in the universe.

It's easy to watch some of the Toei films, or even the filler episodes in the anime and begin assuming that the universe is crawling with beings that far outshine Frieza and the mighty empire that he once ran. Between a trio of odd looking androids being able to give the Super Saiyans a tough fight, and Base Gohan one-shotting Frieza while making funny poses, it's not surprising that the tyrant alongside his lackeys fell into the bucket of fodders.

However, barring creations (Cell, Androids, etc.), if we follow the main timeline, there hasn't quite been anyone aside from Abo, Cado, and Majin Buu who were naturally stronger than Frieza or even Ginyu for that matter. Although, for the body swapping captain, I'd say Yakon (presumably not Pui Pui) also makes it onto that rare list.

Bottom line is, whether it's a year after Frieza's defeat, or twenty years following his death, it's pretty heavily implied that the chances of encountering anyone who could even give his first form a good fight is slim to none.

[Thanos]

W-would it be too much to ask for sources on these curiously specific measurements? Zarbon/Ginyu level? SSJ2 Goku level? At least cite a reason as to why you think he's at that level. He could literally be as strong as Super Gohan Buu for all we know. Maybe that transformation was attained after Freeza's reign. Or he's always been stronger than him, but his race is peaceful and doesn't/can't travel in space. I keep seeing this strange "I have him at" vernacular (is it a meme or something?) as if it's based on data that you've collected rather than blind speculation.


Speculation can be fun, but to get that specific just seems... strange and arbitrary.

[Berserker1921]

All I originally asked how powerful you think he was? This was a speculation post at best. So everyone can state their own opinion. I may ask why but your entitled to your own opinion. Mine was that why can't their be people stronger then Freeza? Remember frieza only conquered the know universe. So maybe a couple galaxies at best. They said he only conquered a a couple hundred worlds. I mean aren't universes bigger then a couple hundred worlds? I think their are thousands to millions of worlds in a universe. Whose to say that this guy or other guys were not stronge then him by leagues?

Thinks about it. If you don't count the sayians and frieza. Here is the official list of power of universe 7 that we know of.

1. Whis
2. Beerus
3. Buu
4. Cell/darbura
5. Supreme Kai


Each one of these four characters are said to be dozens to millions of times stronger then Freeza orginally. Are you trying to say that a character who went under the radar isn't as strong or as close to at least 4 and 5? We'll probably closer to 5?

Whose to say that Freeza avoided this planet because he was afraid of this creature? We don't know. What I am trying to get at is that their is a possibility that their are stronger creatures out there that could rival Kaioshin or cell maybe.

[Draconic]

W-would it be too much to ask for sources on these curiously specific measurements? Zarbon/Ginyu level? SSJ2 Goku level? At least cite a reason as to why you think he's at that level. He could literally be as strong as Super Gohan Buu for all we know. Maybe that transformation was attained after Freeza's reign. Or he's always been stronger than him, but his race is peaceful and doesn't/can't travel in space. I keep seeing this strange "I have him at" vernacular (is it a meme or something?) as if it's based on data that you've collected rather than blind speculation.


Speculation can be fun, but to get that specific just seems... strange and arbitrary.

As I said before, I have him at Zarbon level, since Zarbon was the first character that could transform at will. That is the only parallel I can draw between the alien and any other character in the series. I think transformation, especially at any time, is kind of a big deal, and since Zarbon is the weakest character who can transform, that's where the alien should fall under.

Oozaru takes a full moon, so it is not a "at will" transformation.

[Doctor.]

Roshi could transform though.

[LightBing]

W-would it be too much to ask for sources on these curiously specific measurements? Zarbon/Ginyu level? SSJ2 Goku level? At least cite a reason as to why you think he's at that level. He could literally be as strong as Super Gohan Buu for all we know. Maybe that transformation was attained after Freeza's reign. Or he's always been stronger than him, but his race is peaceful and doesn't/can't travel in space. I keep seeing this strange "I have him at" vernacular (is it a meme or something?) as if it's based on data that you've collected rather than blind speculation.


Speculation can be fun, but to get that specific just seems... strange and arbitrary.

As I said before, I have him at Zarbon level, since Zarbon was the first character that could transform at will. That is the only parallel I can draw between the alien and any other character in the series. I think transformation, especially at any time, is kind of a big deal, and since Zarbon is the weakest character who can transform, that's where the alien should fall under.

Oozaru takes a full moon, so it is not a "at will" transformation.

Vegeta could transform at will. He could summon a artificial moon.

[Galan007]

Roshi could transform though.

Bulking up isn't a a transformation in the same sense as Zarbon, Freeza, the Alien Champion, etc., who each mutate into a completely different order of being whey they transform.

Vegeta could transform at will. He could summon a artificial moon.

It requires the manifestation of an artificial moon(an outside variable) for the transformation to take place. So no, I wouldn't call it an "at will" transformation.

Transforming into a Super Saiyan, for example, would be an "at will" transformation.

[Draconic]

Vegeta could transform at will. He could summon a artificial moon.

The artificial moon is an outside source, without it he can't transform. It's not like Zarbon's transformation in any way.
I take Roshi to just power-up, rather than transform entirely.

[saunasolmu]

Logically way below even first form Freeza, but considering RoF and Shisami, I guess anything's possible.

[LightBing]

Vegeta could transform at will. He could summon a artificial moon.

The artificial moon is an outside source, without it he can't transform. It's not like Zarbon's transformation in any way.
I take Roshi to just power-up, rather than transform entirely.

The moon isn't an outside source, he made it with his on ki, and he can do it anytime if he was the power. Sure it's different, but essentially the same thing as a SSJ or Zarbon's. If you don't have enough ki, you also lose your SSJ transformation.

Piccolo giant form could also be considered a transformation.

[Darkprince410]

The moon isn't an outside source, he made it with his on ki, and he can do it anytime if he was the power. Sure it's different, but essentially the same thing as a SSJ or Zarbon's. If you don't have enough ki, you also lose your SSJ transformation.

Piccolo giant form could also be considered a transformation.

Even though he's making it with his own ki, it's still an outside source, since it's still serving as an external stimulus to trigger the transformation.

[supercat]

Just because Zarbon was allegedly the weakest among beings who possessed the ability to transform, doesn't mean other fighters who share this gift have to be in the same realm of power as him.

The ability to transform and the process behind it seems more heavily influenced by other factors more so than power level.

[iop890]

W-would it be too much to ask for sources on these curiously specific measurements? Zarbon/Ginyu level? SSJ2 Goku level? At least cite a reason as to why you think he's at that level. He could literally be as strong as Super Gohan Buu for all we know. Maybe that transformation was attained after Freeza's reign. Or he's always been stronger than him, but his race is peaceful and doesn't/can't travel in space. I keep seeing this strange "I have him at" vernacular (is it a meme or something?) as if it's based on data that you've collected rather than blind speculation.


Speculation can be fun, but to get that specific just seems... strange and arbitrary.

If you want actual hard data, then you won't be getting an answer any time soon. We have nothing to go on other than the fact that he's significantly weaker than Beerus, and stronger than a dinosaur.

So, ~2xDinosaur<Alien<~.5xBeerus

Anywhere within that range, which spans billions.

It's impossible to prove his BP based on what we have, which is why everyone is simply arguing over how strong they think he should be, or what they think makes the most narrative sense.