Did Goku lose his God power?

[OWmyDragonBallz]

I don't think that was ever stated. Plus it wasn't stated that he can't use SSJG.

Statements are not the only source of information. Gohan was shown powering up to Ultimate, or unleashing his Hidden Potential, in both BoG and the opening of DB Super. He had unleashed it in front of the Kais and Goku, before he did it again in front of Super Buu, meaning that he has the ability to control it. Either he lost access to that, due to lack of training, or TOEI/AT thought that it's a confusing power up, since he looks close to his base state rather than transformed. SSJG could be a possibility, but highly unlikely.

Likely that he probably lost it then for some unexplained reason. Plus Gotenks didn't go SSJ3 in BoG, but even then Goku established that even fusion wouldn't be enough.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 2&start=40

It is from there.

Are you taking this number from assuming that First Form Freeza is at 1.3 million?

[h0kuten]

You're really putting so much trust into battle powers made by an author who hasn't touched his series for over a decade and who, even then, didn't care a whole lot about such numbers? Really?

The only thing that could imply Goku lost his God power in the movie is the fact that, apparently, he couldn't sense Beerus' Ki, but that could just mean it was too far away and Beerus was in too much of a suppressed state for him to sense it. The context of the entire film implies he still has his Godly Ki.

The author has the final authority and because Dragonball Super builds on the previous logic of the Manga it means it can change things up. So if a battle power level is made than it's up to me, the fan, to find a way to make it work.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

You're really putting so much trust into battle powers made by an author who hasn't touched his series for over a decade and who, even then, didn't care a whole lot about such numbers? Really?

The only thing that could imply Goku lost his God power in the movie is the fact that, apparently, he couldn't sense Beerus' Ki, but that could just mean it was too far away and Beerus was in too much of a suppressed state for him to sense it. The context of the entire film implies he still has his Godly Ki.

The author has the final authority and because Dragonball Super builds on the previous logic of the Manga it means it can change things up. So if a battle power level is made than it's up to me, the fan, to find a way to make it work.

Why are some of you thinking that Goku lost his god powers when Whis clearly stated in BoG that the power's became apart of his base state with only a small decrease in power from before..

[Hugo Boss]

First Form Freeza one punched Ultimate Gohan by the way, who alone man handled Evil Boo.

This is not a pacific understanding. The movie suggests Gohan can defeat the former Freeza in any of his forms, but that is about it. Gohan had to transform to take down someone weaker than any of Freeza's forms in another hand. That alone is quite a jump in powerlevel. Freeza's feat would be much more impressive if Gohan was transformed though. It's not like Freeza even needed to train to do that in his first form, given that he easily killed Tagoma before. It's even weirder when Freeza said not even a Super Saiyan could challenge him anymore. Sounds like an inconsistence.

[h0kuten]

You're really putting so much trust into battle powers made by an author who hasn't touched his series for over a decade and who, even then, didn't care a whole lot about such numbers? Really?

The only thing that could imply Goku lost his God power in the movie is the fact that, apparently, he couldn't sense Beerus' Ki, but that could just mean it was too far away and Beerus was in too much of a suppressed state for him to sense it. The context of the entire film implies he still has his Godly Ki.

The author has the final authority and because Dragonball Super builds on the previous logic of the Manga it means it can change things up. So if a battle power level is made than it's up to me, the fan, to find a way to make it work.

Why are some of you thinking that Goku lost his god powers when Whis clearly stated in BoG that the power's became apart of his base state with only a small decrease in power from before..

It can wear off after the events.

[dbgtFO]

First Form Freeza one punched Ultimate Gohan by the way, who alone man handled Evil Boo.

This is not a pacific understanding. The movie suggests Gohan can defeat the former Freeza in any of his forms, but that is about it. Gohan had to transform to take down someone weaker than any of Freeza's forms in another hand. That alone is quite a jump in powerlevel. Freeza's feat would be much more impressive if Gohan was transformed though. It's not like Freeza even needed to train to do that in his first form. It's even more weird when Freeza said even a Super Saiyan could challenge him anymore. Sounds like an inconsistence.

Yeah, Toriyama's script doesn't make it clear, but it mentions Gohan going SS to fight Shisami, but doesn't mention he had powered Down prior to Freeza attacking him.
Judging by the follow up statement by Freeza, that Super Saiyans were nothing to him, it could be that Toriyama intended for Freeza to knock out Super Saiyan Gohan, but just didn't make it clear enough for the Toei staff.

[OWmyDragonBallz]

Which isn't proven at all that his power wore off after BoG. That would defeat the purpose.

[Hugo Boss]

Which isn't proven at all that his power wore off after BoG. That would defeat the purpose.

I guess we could say Goku's SSG power wore off during his fight with Beerus, but then his body and spirit expanded limits. Goku pretty much suggested he would never reach such powerlevel without the help of his friends, no matter how much training he does. But then, now it was possible for him to master Super Saiyan God's powerlevel with the teachings of Whis, so he didn't need to use the ritual again!

[Neon Z]

Gohan probably lost his Mystic power by this point and returned to being equal to his Majin Buu Saga self prior to performing the ritual. Gohan was also in 'Base' form, so it really isn't impressive

"Base" Gohan in RoF seems to be stronger than Piccolo, although then I guess one could point the oddity of the Piccolo vs Shisami battle due to the earlier statement comparing Shisami to Zarbom and Dodoria.

[SSJ Human]

Maybe the God power was temporary, lasting only a short time after he stopped being a Super Saiyan God as in the transformation. So when his hair stopped being red, his long-lasting strength went dead.

[Galan007]

http://www.kanzenshuu.com/forum/viewtop ... 2&start=40

It is from there.

This leads me to believe Goku was weaker than Freeza in his Base form in BoG, but due to training with Whiss is at 300 million in Base, and 75% of Beerus in his SSJG SS form.

First and foremost, that line doesn't appear in the Japanese dub. No specific BPs for Freeza(post-training) are given, AFAIK. Secondly, clinging to that line as gospel is pretty silly, given that it is overtly contradicted by in-universe happenings.

Take Piccolo, for example: his reactions/statements to the power of 1st form Freeza made it explicitly clear that Freeza was FAR more powerful than himself--but if Freeza's BP were only 1.3m, then Piccolo would have absolutely NOTHING to fear. He was already around that level back on Namek(post-Nail fusion), and his BP has increased by several orders of magnitude since then... During the Cell saga, for example, Piccolo(post-Kami fusion) became far more powerful than Yardrat Goku(BP=150m.) 1.3m would barely even register as a blip on his radar by the time of RoF.

[Low Tone G]

How do you imagine that Goku has lost any of his god powers, when he was training with Whis using his base/Saiyan beyond God? Freeza was feared by any of the Z fighters before Goku and Vegeta returned, and they only experienced his 1th form's power. I must have 1st form Freeza at least Super Perfect Cell - SSJ2 level from Buu saga level if Gohan was no match for him even in Super Saiyan(if we assume that he would also loose to him in Super Saiyan too) and his final form should be above Super Vegetto from Buu saga, and was still no match for Base Goku at all. I found simply ridiculous that someone doubts Goku's God powers in base in FnF. Freeza's Golden evolution had only a slight advantage over SSGSS Goku/Vegeta, so if Freeza intentionally chose to make the form Golden in color then it may indicate that the form had a very big multiplier like the Super Saiyan does. I think that multiplier is at least 10x over the final form. So I think Freeza in his Final form is at very least 400x stronger than SSJ Gohan from FnF, meaning that he should compete or even surpass Super Vegetto.

[Sora Saiyan]

Hasn't Toriyama stated that Goku has absorbed SSJG power? Not just that but it's impossible for final form Freeza to be at that level as didn't everybody think they were totally outclassed whilst Freeza was in first form, and resorted to calling Goku instead of Gohan trying to take Freeza on again. He even powered up to his max in hopes of contacting Goku, and during that time it was never once implied they could hold a candle to first form Freeza, still.

Will Goku be able to transform into [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
I think you’ll understand if you watch [the movie], but Goku has already absorbed [Super Saiyan] God’s power and made it his own, so there is no need for him to transform into [Super Saiyan] God. Goku basically only thinks of fighting as a sporting match, so borrowing the power of five people isn’t fair, and he resisted doing that; however, it seems his curiosity towards the realm that lay even further beyond him won out.

Here it is, and it doesn't seem to imply in the slightest that Goku only has the power whilst transformed. This was before SSJGSS was a thing aswell.

[Hugo Boss]

Here it is, and it doesn't seem to imply in the slightest that Goku only has the power whilst transformed. This was before SSJGSS was a thing as well.

Okay, but now that SSGSS exists and it is said to have the power of SSG, what do you think about Goku's new base form? Shouldn't it be lower than his new SS form? Toriyama even suggests we watch Battle of Gods. It seems pretty obvious there Goku absorbed most of SSG's power, but he was still not quite at that level, even after going SS. He had yet to master it and now he did it(!).

[DBZGTKOSDH]

So, after hearing that Goku improved to the point that he defeated Majin Boo, Freeza (in his First Form) says that after 4 months of intense training, he will draw out all of his dormant power, and obtain a battle power of 1.3 million.

We know that before his training, his First Form was at 530.000, his Second Form was over 1 million, his Final Form was at 84 million, his Full Power Form was at 120 million, and as Mecha Freeza, he became even stronger. However, he got a little weaker after his revival.

Taking all these into account, Freeza's comment only makes sense if he is talking about his First Form, which would bring his Full Power Form at around 295 million, if all of his forms increase at the same rate. However, his feats after his training show that First Form Freeza's battle power is many times greater than 1.3 million, since he "killed" base Gohan with one punch, even though he attacked suddenly, and base Gohan's battle power is many times greater than 3 million. But what's even more impressive is that Piccolo said that none of them stood a chance against Freeza, and the strongest of the group was Gohan, who could only go Super Saiyan. So, First Form Freeza definitely ended up dozens, if not hundreds, of times stronger than 1.3 million, which means that Freeza was vastly underestimating his gains, as well as Goku's & Majin Boo's power.

Final Form Freeza could fight with base Goku, but he couldn't land a hit. However, base Goku has the power of Super Saiyan God. In BoG, Goku absorbed its power in his base, and his power decreased insignificantly, to the point that he no longer needs the SSG form, according to Toriyama. Nothing indicates that Goku lost any of the power of Super Saiyan God, it's all fan-speculation, most of the time because people think that SSGSS is as strong as SSG, and some even think that it's weaker than SSG, while actually all evidence show that SSGSS is actually stronger than SSG. So, Final Form Freeza is actually close to SSG level, and far, far above the millions, and in his Golden Form, he surpassed SSGSS Goku & Vegeta, but still stayed behind Beerus.

[Doctor.]

How can you assert with such confidence that Gohan's battle power is superior to 3 million? We don't know how low his power could have gotten due to lack of training nor how much Saiyan base forms increased from Namek to the Boo arc.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

How can you assert with such confidence that Gohan's battle power is superior to 3 million? We don't know how low his power could have gotten due to lack of training nor how much Saiyan base forms increased from Namek to the Boo arc.

Because SS Gohan is still stronger than Piccolo, who still trains according to Toriyama.

And personally, I don't think Gohan's battle power decreased, I think he just lost his abilities (rage boost, SS2, and Ultimate).

[h0kuten]

Gohan is shown to transform into his Ultimate form in the opening of Dragonball Super. There is now a clear distinction between Ssj & Ultimate.

IMO Ultimate is just Gohan's own unique, special, Ssj3 transformation.

So Gohan is probably in between his Z-Sword Ssj self from the Buu Saga (in Fukkatsu no F) & his Teen Ssj2 self, which is also from the Majin Buu Saga.

[Truhan]

I think we will be surprised and shown Gohan transforming into SSJ when attempting to unleash his Hidden Potential. It would be a sign that it lowered to a point where SSJ is the preferred choice, without actually surpassing the power that he had against Majin Buu.