Gohan theory

[TheLegend23]

So I went to see Resurrection "F" last night, it was an amazing movie. I loved the animation, the way they transitioned the CG was SO GOOD! But anyway back to the actual point of this, so Gohan turned super saiyan. He also turned super saiyan in BOG as well. The mystic form was not presented in either movie, or really after the Majin Saga. So my theory is could he have lost that ability when he was absorbed by Buu? I mean Goku and Vegeta defused inside Buu, and the fusion was meant to be permanent. It's obviously probably just one of those Dragon Ball inconsistencies, but really just think about it. What do you guys think the reasoning is ?

[SSJ God Gogeta]

He did go "Mystic" in BoG.


The reason Gohan is back to just plain SSJ is to make Goku look better.

[TheDevilsCorpse]

Gohan was clearly depicted with his Ultimate form's appearance throughout the rest of the manga once he obtained it. And regardless of how the scene was originally animated for Battle of Gods, the end result in the film was Gohan transforming into his Ultimate state when he confronted Beerus and had his ass handed to him. The only place it ends up disappearing from for good is Resurrection F, which was handled (script wise) almost exclusively by Toriyama. Though a couple of things were tweaked for the final film, Gohan's transformation didn't seem to be important enough to anyone to worry about patching the inconsistency.

(And just as a reminder, the inconsistency isn't that Gohan can go Super Saiyan. Different people can interpret the information we do have as to whether or not they think he retains that skill after the Elder Kaioshin's ritual in different ways, but nothing official outright says he can't use both; similarly to the Kaio-ken basically disappearing after SS was introduced. The problem is the loss of his Ultimate state when he clearly has it at the end of the manga.)

[Galan007]

When Gohan powered up just before he engaged Beerus, he was undoubtedly in his 'Mystic' form:

Spoiler:

Aside from that, Toriyama's intent in BoG was to have most of the notable Z Fighters to be operating at max power:

With regards to the time frame of “for the first time in 39 years”, the movie’s setting is after the defeat of Majin Buu, and also prior to the final chapter. Why is it that you chose this period?

When I decided, “For this movie, let’s go with the whole cast!” I thought, “What era would be best?” If it’s a few years after the “Majin Buu arc”, then almost all the cast members are at MAX strength…. And also, you know, in the final chapter, where Uub appears, I made [characters like] Bulma and Kuririn pretty old, so honestly, I thought, “Maaaybe it’s a biiit difficult” [to make the time period any later]. (laughs)

So yeah, Gohan *should* have been at his peak, there.

[TheLegend23]

You're right ! I totally forgot about that part I feel like a dumbass now haha

[Galan007]

No worries!

[supercat]

Elder Kaioshin's ritual was presumably designed to circumvent the shortcomings of turning Super Saiyan while enabling the user to tap into the highest levels of ki they could possibly muster.

Whether Gohan had his potential drawn out or not, nothing contradicts the fact that his strength will dwindle over time. Between living a sedentary lifestyle and the natural aging process taking its toll, it's quite plausible that his power declined to the point where he once again must resort to transforming.

[MasterVampire]

I wonder if Super will show how Gohan lost his power?

He could use his Ultimate Form in BoG but then during the time between that movie and RoF he lost it.

[zcherub]

There's a lot of talk about "Mystic" & "Ultimate" Gohan, but after the power up from Kaioshin, he was still just "Gohan". I don't recall it ever being pointed to as a transformation he could turn on/off - he just was.

The only explanation we got as to why he didn't go SSJ after that was that he was so powerful he didn't need to transform to increase his ki - it was just already at max.

Perhaps Gohan's potential has increased with his additional combat experience, but he's not yet hit that "new" ceiling of his potential due to his lack of training, so he now uses SSJ to cover that gap.

[Galan007]

There's a lot of talk about "Mystic" & "Ultimate" Gohan, but after the power up from Kaioshin, he was still just "Gohan". I don't recall it ever being pointed to as a transformation he could turn on/off - he just was.

The only explanation we got as to why he didn't go SSJ after that was that he was so powerful he didn't need to transform to increase his ki - it was just already at max.

In order to access the full spectrum of his 'Mystic' power, Gohan has to power-up just like he would if he were to transform into a SSJ:

Spoiler:

That is presumably what he did immediately before engaging Beerus as well:

Spoiler:

IOW, he doesn't just walk around with that level of power all the time. It is something he has to consciously turn on/off, just like SSJ.

[Truhan]

There's no reason to think that Gohan couldn't access his SSJ transformations after he got his Hidden Potential unlocked, because he had unleashed portions of it before while transformed. Case in point: killing Cell with a rage boost as a SSJ2. It only makes sense for him to remain transformed to keep his power leveled with the enemy, in case he can't get angry, because the boost that he enjoys comes as fast as it goes. However, getting to unleash it at will denies SSJ from its usefulness, until he loses grasp of his Hidden Potential, again.

I just wanted to clear some things: it may seem that Gohan's rage is what triggered the SSJ2 transformation, but I don't believe in that. His body must have reached a level to sustain SSJ2 naturally, with the trigger being his emotions towards the prospect of life being destroyed, but not a rage boost. Goku doesn't have such thing, and yet he was capable of reaching SSJ through a similar trigger. What he expected Gohan to accomplish during his fight with Cell was a rage boost, but he was ultimately surprised that there was a level beyond that of a SSJ that Gohan naturally achieved. That is why Teen Gohan is as strong as when he was a kid, because his body is still capable of SSJ2, and that is why Vegeta had his anger in mind when commenting his power at the tournament.

What do you think? Sorry for the subject change, but I didn't want to create another thread.

[Lord Beerus]

Considering Super is re-telling the events of ROF, we could see Ultimate/Msytic Gohan as supposed to SSJ Gohan in the movie. And if that were the case, then it would imply that ROF takes place in a alternate universe where Gohan lost his Mystic power-up due to lack of training.

[zcherub]

There's a lot of talk about "Mystic" & "Ultimate" Gohan, but after the power up from Kaioshin, he was still just "Gohan". I don't recall it ever being pointed to as a transformation he could turn on/off - he just was.

The only explanation we got as to why he didn't go SSJ after that was that he was so powerful he didn't need to transform to increase his ki - it was just already at max.

In order to access the full spectrum of his 'Mystic' power, Gohan has to power-up just like he would if he were to transform into a SSJ:

Spoiler:

That is presumably what he did immediately before engaging Beerus as well:

Spoiler:

IOW, he doesn't just walk around with that level of power all the time. It is something he has to consciously turn on/off, just like SSJ.

But how is that different than just charging up ki in base form? My point is that (while he charges up to increase ki output like everyone in base form does), it's not a transformation - or at least there's nothing to indicate that it is.

[Truhan]

If he could go SSJ on top of his Ultimate form, he would have against Gotenks Buu. Also, you have to check his eyes for when he is transformed or not. Through out RoF, he was at base because his eyes were round next to his eyebrows. When he is Ultimate, his eyes become angular. Outside of that, it's not really a transformation, but a power up, and that is why I prefer "Gohan with Hidden Potential unleashed" more than "Ultimate Gohan".

[dbgtFO]

The way you explain it Truhan, sounds like the way I see it. Getting his hidden power brought forth didn't make him incapable of ever transforming into Super Saiyan, but at the time he couldn't, as his body didn't need to transform in order to draw out the power. If Gohan neglects to train, his power would eventually fall and require Super Saiyan to draw it out like he used to.

[zcherub]

If he could go SSJ on top of his Ultimate form, he would have against Gotenks Buu. Also, you have to check his eyes for when he is transformed or not. Through out RoF, he was at base because his eyes were round next to his eyebrows. When he is Ultimate, his eyes become angular. Outside of that, it's not really a transformation, but a power up, and that is why I prefer "Gohan with Hidden Potential unleashed" more than "Ultimate Gohan".

I always figured that if you're putting out the max ki your body can manage, transforming can't offer a boost since you're at your ceiling.

[Truhan]

The way you explain it Truhan, sounds like the way I see it. Getting his hidden power brought forth didn't make him incapable of ever transforming into Super Saiyan, but at the time he couldn't, as his body didn't need to transform in order to draw out the power. If Gohan neglects to train, his power would eventually fall and require Super Saiyan to draw it out like he used to.

I always figured that if you're putting out the max ki your body can manage, transforming can't offer a boost since you're at your ceiling.

You both have explained it well, but there is just one minor nitpick: Goku has been able to stretch his body limits to absorb the power of SSJG, even if partially, and then transform But that power was handed to him, while Gohan's had always existed inside of him.

[DBZGTKOSDH]

If he could go SSJ on top of his Ultimate form, he would have against Gotenks Buu.

I think it would be more correct to say that "If he could go SSJ on top of his Ultimate form and increase his power, he would have against Gotenks Buu". He transforms in BoG even though he is Ultimate, but it doesn't seem to make him stronger, otherwise he would have transformed against Beerus. In FnF, he has lost his Ultimate state, so he has to transform again in order to get stronger.

[Truhan]

Nice correction I forgot to add that one didn't stack on top of the other for power.

[mAcChaos]

Gohan was clearly depicted with his Ultimate form's appearance throughout the rest of the manga once he obtained it. And regardless of how the scene was originally animated for Battle of Gods, the end result in the film was Gohan transforming into his Ultimate state when he confronted Beerus and had his ass handed to him. The only place it ends up disappearing from for good is Resurrection F, which was handled (script wise) almost exclusively by Toriyama. Though a couple of things were tweaked for the final film, Gohan's transformation didn't seem to be important enough to anyone to worry about patching the inconsistency.

(And just as a reminder, the inconsistency isn't that Gohan can go Super Saiyan. Different people can interpret the information we do have as to whether or not they think he retains that skill after the Elder Kaioshin's ritual in different ways, but nothing official outright says he can't use both; similarly to the Kaio-ken basically disappearing after SS was introduced. The problem is the loss of his Ultimate state when he clearly has it at the end of the manga.)

There's a large time skip where we don't know what happens between Buu and EoZ.

What if Gohan loses it from no training but then gains it back by EoZ?