How Much Has Toriyama's Art Gone Downhill?

Big Green The Yoshi · Post by **Big Green The Yoshi** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:11 am

I've always liked Toriyama's art style. Sure, there may be a few flaws, such as poor proportion in size of characters at times, but it may actually be one of my favorite art styles in Manga and one of Dragon Ball's greatest aspects. During the Cell Arc, it seemed to be at its peak, with minor decline in the Boo Arc, but that's mostly attributed to working on both Dr. Slump and Dragon Ball without ever missing a deadline, so that was to be expected.

However, looking at his recent works, he seems to have gotten quite rusty, and it just doesn't look the same as before. I guess this is to be expected too, I suppose.

Theophrastus · Post by **Theophrastus** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:27 am

General style evolution combined with doing lots of "SD/chibi" character designs for JRPGs (most notably Dragon Quest) over the years has left his style in a position where he draws everyone to look short and thin now.

Post by **TheDevilsCorpse** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:20 am

His art has just continued to evolve. Whether that's considered "downhill" or not is up to individual. Personally, it's not all that different than the evolution during the series run when you compare kid Goku in chapter 1 to kid Goten. While it takes a liiiittle bit of getting used to seeing familiar characters in this different of a take without the continuous transition, I honestly don't mind his current style.

UltimateHammerBro · Post by **UltimateHammerBro** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:53 am

I personally find his current style jarring. He started with a more rounded style in Dr. Slump and the early days of DB, and by the end of the manga his drawings had become more angular. His new style seems to use the worst of both worlds IMO.

YamchaKaiokenx20 · Post by **YamchaKaiokenx20** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:17 pm

I agree with you, the Cell Saga had the best art style, everyone looked more jacked

fadeddreams5 · Post by **fadeddreams5** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 1:59 pm

His modern art is ****ing terrible compared to the stuff in his prime:

Spoiler:

And I really dislike the art in the modern movies and Super too.

Doctor. · Post by **Doctor.** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 2:01 pm

His modern art just doesn't suit Dragon Ball anymore. If you read Jaco, you can see his art is the most detailed it has ever been in regards to character designs, backgrounds and such. It also fits Jaco, a gag manga, and doesn't feel jarring at all. Now if Toriyama drew a DB manga with that art style, I would definitely feel like it looked terrible.

B · Post by B » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:42 pm

I blame Toei and Yamamuro for homogenizing the Freeza- through Cell-era designs and convincing many fans that DB has to look exactly a certain way.

Cipher · Post by **Cipher** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 3:47 pm

Doctor. wrote:His modern art just doesn't suit Dragon Ball anymore. If you read Jaco, you can see his art is the most detailed it has ever been in regards to character designs, backgrounds and such. It also fits Jaco, a gag manga, and doesn't feel jarring at all. Now if Toriyama drew a DB manga with that art style, I would definitely feel like it looked terrible.

I more or less agree with this. I don't think his art has gone "downhill" at all (I do think burnout with his late Dragon Ball style shows within the series at a certain point, though, and for me his designs and detail peak during the Freeza/Namek arc; artifacts of working on a weekly series, I guess). It is less suited for action comics, at least on the surface, but I'd be curious to see a little bit of latter-day Dragon Ball rendered in that style. Even Jaco could pull out a great looking action page or two.

Anyway, Toriyama's still an ace designer and I loved, loved the art in Jaco. The one thing I could take issue with there is it maybe looking too "clean" in places, but that's a hard thing to qualify. At any rate, his art fits the kinds of stories he's telling now, just as in the Dragon Ball manga, it changed to fit the kinds of stories it was telling at the time.

EDIT -- And I'm not saying that Freeza image looks better, because it doesn't. It has to do more with the composition than the art style though.

FortuneSSJ · Post by **FortuneSSJ** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 4:07 pm

Nowadays his art is not good anymore for this series.
And thats why I got happy for Toyotaro be the one drawing the chapters now.

Kendamu · Post by **Kendamu** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 5:05 pm

His art is just fine. What you see more often now was always present in the manga when he was emphasizing the humor of a certain situation. He just does it more now because he's gone back to writing more humor now. Judging by Toriyama's SSGSS art, he's still perfectly capable of drawing seriously.

If you think his art has really declined, take a look at Jaco. It's a very well-done manga that most U.S. DB fans seem to just completely ignore.

Lord Beerus · Post by **Lord Beerus** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:09 pm

As TheDevilsCorpse brought up, I don't think Toriyama's art has gone downhill, it's just evolved like it does for many mangaka. I mean, if you think Toriyama's art has gone downhill, you check out how much the art in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has changed over the years.

DBZAOTA482 · Post by **DBZAOTA482** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 6:12 pm

fadeddreams5 wrote:His modern art is ****ing terrible compared to the stuff in his prime:
Spoiler:
And I really dislike the art in the modern movies and Super too.

Piccolo looks so weird. He has that stank face.

TheGmGoken · Post by **TheGmGoken** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:00 pm

Lord Beerus wrote:As TheDevilsCorpse brought up, I don't think Toriyama's art has gone downhill, it's just evolved like it does for many mangaka. I mean, if you think Toriyama's art has gone downhill, you check out how much the art in JoJo's Bizarre Adventure has changed over the years.

I think both series went downhill big time. Yes Toriyama art changed over time but one can judge if it got better or worse.

Cipher · Post by **Cipher** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:04 pm

TheGmGoken wrote:I think both series went downhill big time. Yes Toriyama art changed over time but one can judge if it got better or worse.

Maybe if they're phoning it in with a similar style, which is why I mentioned thinking late Dragon Ball shows burnout. But the art in Jaco, for example, is very intentional, quite skilled, and just of a different style. You're certainly welcome to say you don't like it as much, but on a craft level, nothing's deteriorated.

That Freeza picture above is worse for a number of reasons, but it's not representative of his overall style, especially in manga form, at all.

Post by **TheDevilsCorpse** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:16 pm

Not to mention that Golden Freeza picture is fan made from various individual images of Toriyama's. It was certainly never going to hold a candle to the original because there was never any intention for it to be crafted like that.

Cipher · Post by **Cipher** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 7:21 pm

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Not to mention that Golden Freeza picture is fan made from various individual images of Toriyama's. It was certainly never going to hold a candle to the original because there was never any intention for it to be crafted like that.

Oh! Then most of my comments on it go out the window anyway. That's completely unfair.

funrush · Post by **funrush** » Wed Sep 02, 2015 10:40 pm

I wouldn't call it downhill, just different. Artists' styles change as they draw, Toriyama is no exception. Of course it doesn't look Dragon Ball anymore, that's because he hasn't been drawing Dragon Ball for 20 years.

UltimateHammerBro · Post by **UltimateHammerBro** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:03 am

TheDevilsCorpse wrote:Not to mention that Golden Freeza picture is fan made from various individual images of Toriyama's. It was certainly never going to hold a candle to the original because there was never any intention for it to be crafted like that.

Still, we can check the Kanzenban covers. The drawings there were kind of a letdown for me.

Post by **TheDevilsCorpse** » Thu Sep 03, 2015 4:26 am

Yes, there are other, more valid images to use for this sort of discussion, such as the Kanzenban covers. Toriyama's art has obviously continued to evolve since the series ended. Regardless of whether fans like the recent art styles or not, most of the pieces, such as the Kanzenban covers, are still extremely well crafted. Someone not liking the the specific art style they are drawn in is about their tastes, which is and always will be an individual preference, not a sign Toriyama's ability diminishing (and occasionally condemning it as shit from some individuals).

Kanzenshuu

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