What are all the problems with GT?

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:16 pm

BrollysKin wrote:
Deus ex Machina wrote:Goku easily defeating Freeza and Cell in his base form.
How does that not make sense? The guy has trained for probably 16 years since Cell.

27 years actually (Depends if you're using the anime as a source, if you're using the Perfect File books, it's 22)

I just go with the idea that Goku was referring to Fat/Mr. Buu, who at this point was not only nowhere near the same league as the Super and Chibi forms, but he was depowered from separating from his "pure evil" half to begin with; as Piccolo states in the anime following the separation.

Didn't they call him Mr. Boo in the manga? I understand it's just your POV, but I'm just curious.

Gohan unable to use his "ultimate" form.
Well...let's see, it's been more-or-less 20 years since the battle with Hildegarn and since then Gohan's put his full focus in education and a family life with Videl. As shown with the 7 years following Cell's defeat, zero training can decrease Ki to a surprising amount (though I think Gohan regained that power back when he confronted Buu's ball). Just think of what 20 years can do, it shouldn't be that hard to swallow that Gohan can't go as far as his "Ultimate" form anymore.

But didn't the Old Kai (Sorry, I forgot his proper name) say his power would be at maximum permanently? If so, then his power shouldn't be dropping!

And like I said, I don't care if a 160 years have passed, there's no reason why Goku should have got that strong. It completly flies in the face of the training to power ratios that Toriyama established.

Yet, in 7 years, Goku recieves a huge power increase and achieves two Super Saiyan transformations.

And besides, even if there was something in Kami's palace that prevented the Black Star Dragon Balls from showing up on the dragon radar, wouldn't that have been nullified when Majin Boo destroyed the palace and the dragonballs presumably fell to Earth?

I'm assuming that this was 'undoed' when the Namek Dragon Balls wished the Earth back into existance.

Rocketman · Post by **Rocketman** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:30 pm

Eclipse wrote:
And like I said, I don't care if a 160 years have passed, there's no reason why Goku should have got that strong. It completly flies in the face of the training to power ratios that Toriyama established.
Yet, in 7 years, Goku recieves a huge power increase and achieves two Super Saiyan transformations.

And he was also dead during that time, and thus never had to worry about injuring his body from lack of sleep or excessive training.

And anyways, Goku himself said (paraphrased) "there's a point where pushing your body farther is torture, not training".

And besides, even if there was something in Kami's palace that prevented the Black Star Dragon Balls from showing up on the dragon radar, wouldn't that have been nullified when Majin Boo destroyed the palace and the dragonballs presumably fell to Earth?
I'm assuming that this was 'undoed' when the Namek Dragon Balls wished the Earth back into existance.

The Dragon Radar should've still picked up their signature.

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:32 pm

Eclipse wrote:Yet, in 7 years, Goku recieves a huge power increase and achieves two Super Saiyan transformations.

Seven years that he was physically dead, and training in the world of the Kaio's. Not a mortal man and training on Earth without other worldly assistance.

I'm assuming that this was 'undoed' when the Namek Dragon Balls wished the Earth back into existance.

Ah...I suppose so. I thought that the extra set of dragonballs should have appeared on the radar after Kami's palace was destroyed, but then they didn't have time to check the dragon radar at all until after Earth was destroyed and restored.

DBW · Post by **DBW** » Sat Dec 30, 2006 11:57 pm

Toei's DragonBall = boring

Toriyama's DragonBall = not boring

There's your plothole right there...

Eclipse · Post by **Eclipse** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:56 am

Seven years that he was physically dead, and training in the world of the Kaio's. Not a mortal man and training on Earth without other worldly assistance.

He still got quite strong in between 2-3 years of training as a kid

Although the levels of power were far different back then, I suppose.

Thanos6 · Post by **Thanos6** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 8:39 am

Freeza and Cell in hell, not being sent to Oblivion when Goku re-kills them, like the already dead are supposed to...

Duo · Post by **Duo** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 2:59 pm

DBW wrote:Toei's DragonBall = boring

Toriyama's DragonBall = not boring

There's your plothole right there...

I think that sums it up pretty well. What bugged me about GT is how much it felt like a gigantic unnecessary Filler a lot of the time.

caejones · Post by **caejones** » Sun Dec 31, 2006 9:52 pm

If Toei can have a robot come out of Hell... I wonder what they have happen to #16?

future_trunks · Post by **future_trunks** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:32 am

caejones wrote:If Toei can have a robot come out of Hell... I wonder what they have happen to #16?

And that right there is a question we will never understand but will come up with answers such as "because its GT and they suck".

Deus ex Machina · Post by **Deus ex Machina** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 12:42 am

caejones wrote:If Toei can have a robot come out of Hell... I wonder what they have happen to #16?

Then he either went to Heaven, or was ressurected by the wish to bring back all of Cell's victims, by Toei's logic.

tainted saiyan · Post by **tainted saiyan** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 4:17 pm

Pilaf being alive(if he was evil, he should have not been revived when Buu destroyed earth).

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:09 pm

tainted saiyan wrote:Pilaf being alive(if he was evil, he should have not been revived when Buu destroyed earth).

Porunga may've made a point to just leaving out the "pure evil" Earth residents (such as Vanzant and Smitty), as just an episode later in the anime, we see Vegetto EX and Kyle Hebert robbing a bank (which Buu saves). And as we all know, the first pure evil enemy was Piccolo Daimao. Pilaf has more in common with that Plankton guy from Spongebob, 1% evil, 99% hot gas. Seriously, the most evil Pilaf does on purpose is intending to kill Goku and his friends after they foil his plot with the Dragonballs...that and releasing Piccolo Daimao, who he thought would serve him rather than betray him and begin the Demonic New World Order. Pilaf's a comedy relief evil, one that can be excepted...besides, if Porunga can revive Old Kaioshin when the second wish was specifically directed at the people of Earth (as well as the fact Old Kaioshin's life was inside Goku), why not revive Pilaf?

TheMajinRedComet · Post by **TheMajinRedComet** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 5:30 pm

All in All GT is a ok what if story, about 40% ok 60%bad.

Was Vegetto Ex really in that episode?

future_trunks · Post by **future_trunks** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:28 pm

Conan the SSJ wrote:Seriously, the most evil Pilaf does on purpose is intending to kill Goku and his friends after they foil his plot with the Dragonballs...

So indending to kill isn't evil?

Conan the SSJ · Post by **Conan the SSJ** » Mon Jan 01, 2007 7:46 pm

TheMajinRedComet wrote:All in All GT is a ok what if story, about 40% ok 60%bad.

Was Vegetto Ex really in that episode?

Where the hell did the what-if concept come from? It's, for all intents and purposes, intended by Toei to be a continuation of the DragonBall and DragonBall Z anime series. Though with the anime canon, what fits and doesn't is entirely open to interpretation.

future_trunks wrote:So indending to kill isn't evil?

Well, Giran and Devil Man were revived, two individuals who have intended to kill and have killed at one time or another. So why not Pilaf? Like I said, it was most likely "pure evil" beings that Porunga left out.

Anonymous Friend · Post by **Anonymous Friend** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:56 am

TheMajinRedComet wrote:All in All GT is a ok what if story, about 40% ok 60%bad.

The only question I'm asking myself, is how could they have messed the story up so bad. I mean, mistepped so many times. I can see them coming up with lame ideas and being lazy with the animation, but why have so many inconsist things pop up that screw with preexisting and determined details.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 9:40 am

SSj Kaboom wrote:The Hell spewing any baddies at all is a plot hole, if you're going to roll that way, since according to the manga, villians get their bodies trashed and their souls cleansed and recycled. But really, who cares?

What about the Ginyu Force at King kai's? Or was this filler?

Post by **Kaboom** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 10:43 am

Pieter wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:The Hell spewing any baddies at all is a plot hole, if you're going to roll that way, since according to the manga, villians get their bodies trashed and their souls cleansed and recycled. But really, who cares?
What about the Ginyu Force at King kai's? Or was this filler?

Completely filler. Fillerlicious. Filler-de-doo-da.

Pieter · Post by **Pieter** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 2:41 pm

SSj Kaboom wrote:
Pieter wrote:
SSj Kaboom wrote:The Hell spewing any baddies at all is a plot hole, if you're going to roll that way, since according to the manga, villians get their bodies trashed and their souls cleansed and recycled. But really, who cares?
What about the Ginyu Force at King kai's? Or was this filler?
Completely filler. Fillerlicious. Filler-de-doo-da.

oh well, theres always raditz

gohanku · Post by **gohanku** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 2:57 am

Raditz? You mean as in King's Kai place then no, game only, I think, Raditz was never there.

Kanzenshuu

What are all the problems with GT?

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