Mr. Toriyama return to his roots

[coola]

Honestly, his writing style in both movies and Super remind me more of Dr.Slump, characters acting over the top, plot and gags have zero common sense (Bringing Pilaf back, Freeza going SSG tier in 3 months, his bickering with Bulma). In Dr. Slump, we had crazy inventions, that warp reality, you can see some taste of that, in DBM chapter, with 18 fighting Arale. I'm not saying it is bad or anything, Buu Saga was pretty familiar to that too, but, i can see that people who loved Saiyan/Cell saga, might not like newest Toriyama creations

[ekrolo2]

I seriously doubt we'll get a return to that tone ever again. BoG was originally going to be a much darker movie actually question weather or not its even right to call Goku a hero (he's not but more casual fans seems to think he is which would've been an eye opener for them) and what that means. Now, I really love BoG and say its first truly great thing he wrote since the Freeza stuff but the original BoG idea is something I think I'd like a lot more if they managed to do the execution well.

This pretty much shows you his mentality from this point forward. Even RoF which was advertised as a more dramatic movie than BoG ended up being an hour and a half of everyone making Freeza look like a chump and practically laughing both in and behind his face. Even after his power up, Goku still didn't consider him dangerous enough to just re-kill.

Unless the U6 arc proves me wrong, the days of the Freeza & Cell Saga tones is done and dead until Toriyama leaves.

[FortuneSSJ]

The man himself said he was going back to his roots in a BOG interview.
But to be honest, I feel like BOG was just a test to see if the DB fanbase was still there for new material. After that, Toriyama realized how a lot of people were expecting more fighting , and gave way more of that in ROF, while keeping his special touch. ROF is cleary darker than BOG and Toei just nailed that atmosphere perfectly.

I'm expecting Universe 6, to be at least as dark as ROF since it gonna be a war. But what I really want is something aound Saiyan arc - Cell Arc.
I think I can at least expect a real threat in U6 arc, since Golden Freeza was just for the training.

[Sayo-chan]

People often take an issue with this because it's such a rapid, if not vapid, change compared to what they're used to. There's a reason the Dragon Ball anime isn't nearly as popular as Dragon Ball Z. If the storytelling wasn't so haphazard, the change wouldn't seem so abrupt, but what do you expect from a man that doesn't care about the quality of his story? In Z we can see this really come out in the Boo arc, which is also why it's the most controversial arc in the series.

[DBZAOTA482]

Toriyama isn't directly involved with Super as of now. It's all TOEI...

Also, he's old and shit... he's probably out of it now.

[VegettoEX]

Also, he's old and shit... he's probably out of it now.

Akira Toriyama is only in his early 60s, and from everything he's said over the last couple years, as sharp (if not more so) than ever before. Can we please stop writing the man off so dismissively? It's rather disgusting.

[LuckyCat]

Toriyama realized how a lot of people were expecting more fighting , and gave way more of that in ROF, while keeping his special touch. ROF is clearly darker than BOG and Toei just nailed that atmosphere perfectly.

I think this is true, to the extent that Toriyama decided to push for more action in RoF based on fan requests. I wonder how much Toei was really involved over Toriyama, though. Freeza has always been Toriyama's pet villain, the creation of his nightmares, so it wouldn't be surprising if Toriyama could write a darker story using Freeza again.

It will be interesting to see if Toei treats RoF lighter or darker in Super.

[Doctor.]

It will be interesting to see if Toei treats RoF lighter or darker in Super.

Knowing Toei? Probably a lot darker.

And thank God for that.

[Faustus]

what do you expect from a man that doesn't care about the quality of his story?

To iterate VegettoEX's point, this just isn't true. You may not care for the direction it's taking, but by all accounts (particularly as of late) Mr. Toriyama's given all the appearance of caring a great deal about what's done with his story.

Not gonna lie: I'm making it a point to post right after Doctor. just to be a smartass

[Doctor.]

Not gonna lie: I'm making it a point to post right after Doctor. just to be a smartass

I don't seem to understand why. I'm not unhappy with the direction the series is going. Disappointed with a few aspects, but that's it.

[Faustus]

Not disagreeing with you on anything; I'm just making a silly joke based on our screennames and this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Faustus_(play)

I got a pair of potara handy if you wanna merge.

[Doctor.]

Oh, I feel silly now.

[ekrolo2]

Nah Toriyama cares, if he didn't I really doubt he'd be working on any of the recent stuff as much as he is. Its his possible post BoG fanboy bitching induced direction and ppppaaaaaiiiinnnnnffffffuuuuulllll lack of actually digging into stuff that keeps annoying me.

[Hellspawn28]

Freeza becoming stronger didn't bother me. He's the most iconic villain in the series and is Goku's #1 major enemy. At least he had a decent comeback compare to his return in Fusion Reborn and GT where he was treated like a joke. It made more sense for Freeza to comeback stronger then someone random like #17 in my opinion. I feel like Toriyama is doing a good job on the series. His writing is the same as it always been, I think some people are blinded by nostalgia and just grew out of the franchise.

[Cipher]

He was returning to his roots in the Boo arc, too. Although that combined the silliness with an incredibly dire plot, which the new material, set in relative peace time, doesn't seem to be as interested in. No harm, no foul. I've been enjoying it. Super has some scripting blemishes, but that's on Toei rather than Toriyama. The new movies have been a joy.

But I also really like Dr. Slump. I guess I'm about as interested in the fighting as Toriyama is, which is to say -- great, if it's interesting, but it's no longer my favorite part.

I do wish he'd actually scripted more specific action beats in Resurrection "F" though, because he brings a lot to his fights compared to the generically flashy martial arts we get from Toei, or did in at least that movie. He makes sure there are constantly new things happening and that they feel like part of the plot, rather than stand-alone action scenes.

[SpiritBombTriumphant]

what do you expect from a man that doesn't care about the quality of his story?

To iterate VegettoEX's point, this just isn't true. You may not care for the direction it's taking, but by all accounts (particularly as of late) Mr. Toriyama's given all the appearance of caring a great deal about what's done with his story.

Not gonna lie: I'm making it a point to post right after Doctor. just to be a smartass

I think he was referring to the fact that Toriyama has said there are inconsistencies in the story, when he was writing it he only cared about "entertaining Japanese middle school boys," and that he only planned two or three chapters out in advance. The man has shown he doesn't care much for the series and that's fine. I think he did a remarkable job with Battle of Gods and Resurrection 'F', and while I don't like the change to the more comedy-oriented style, I don't mind it that much.

But to be honest, I feel like BOG was just a test to see if the DB fanbase was still there for new material.

We have to remember that it only got made because the Japanese government awarded Toei $500,000 for the series being everlasting and never getting old. They simply used the money to make the film and saw that *gasp* we want new animation and a continuation of the story rather than a remastering of half-assed 80s/90s footage.

Source: http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2 ... government

[TheDevilsCorpse]

We have to remember that it only got made because the Japanese government awarded Toei $500,000 for the series being everlasting and never getting old. They simply used the money to make the film and saw that *gasp* we want new animation and a continuation of the story rather than a remastering of half-assed 80s/90s footage.

Source: http://www.crunchyroll.com/anime-news/2 ... government

Battle of Gods was in production before they were ever awarded that money, and would have been made whether they qualified for the award or not. In all honesty, that money is a drop in the bucket to the rest of the production cost and most likely only went towards promotion. That's possibly why we got all the extra tie-ins for Battle of Gods and had next to nothing with Resurrection "F". I missed my Super Saiyan fries this go around...

[EXBadguy]

Also, he's old and shit... he's probably out of it now.

Even though that was a bit harsh to call him shit, I second this. Now, I have no problem with him doing different things, but I really thought he was gonna improve on his flaws and tone. Guess I have to place hope on Toei, cuz I do see potential of them appealing to the older fans with some of their writing and atmosphere(Future Trunks special, and Movies 8, 12(somewhat), and 13 for example).

[Faustus]

If the only thing you take objection to in that comment is the "shit", then that must mean you agree with the "old [...] out of it" part -- which, as has been said, just isn't the case. The man's as lucid and possessed of his wits as ever.

The only reason people feel inclined to make this suggestion in the first place is that they personally don't like the new direction -- and so of course the old guy must senile and out of his mind, right? No. It dismisses out of hand the possible diversity of artistic tastes, and unnecessarily deprives your criticisms of the critically oriented approach they might otherwise have had.

Unless, of course, I'm being thoroughly uncharitable and you're interpreting "out of it" to mean "in decline" artistically, which is fine and I apologize; the above attitude is just one I encounter all too frequently with the fandom at large.

But I also really like Dr. Slump. I guess I'm about as interested in the fighting as Toriyama is, which is to say -- great, if it's interesting, but it's no longer my favorite part.

I agree with this in a sense, but I'm not sure the fighting and comic aspects ought to be treated as perfectly discrete categories here, not least when it comes to something like Dragon Ball where the two so often go hand-in-hand and work to both complement and restrict one another so wonderfully.

[EXBadguy]

If the only thing you take objection to in that comment is the "shit", then that must mean you agree with the "old [...] out of it" part -- which, as has been said, just isn't the case. The man's as lucid and possessed of his wits as ever.

The only reason people feel inclined to make this suggestion in the first place is that they personally don't like the new direction -- and so of course the old guy must senile and out of his mind, right? No. It dismisses out of hand the possible diversity of artistic tastes, and unnecessarily deprives your criticisms of the critically oriented approach they might otherwise have had.

Unless, of course, I'm being thoroughly uncharitable and you're interpreting "out of it" to mean "in decline" artistically, which is fine and I apologize; the above attitude is just one I encounter all too frequently with the fandom at large.

Oh, I'd never call Toriyama anything cruel except lazy sometimes. But think about it, standards have changed, and people now expect better structure and consistency, something that Toriyama's having a hard time doing so far. I know the "prime" Toriyama wasn't all that consistent either(despite the first three Z sagas being critically acclaimed), but all I'm saying is to improve. Improve the storytelling, improve the consistency, extend its tone and themes. You don't wanna have a inconsistent flashback scene of Fat Buu destroying earth instead of Kid Buu, do ya?