The All-Purpose "Versus" Thread

[ZombieVito]

If Buu saga SSJ2 Goku was a 100. Then were would these lie

Super Perfect Cell
SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)
SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)
LSSJ Broly (Movie 10)
Dabura
Majin Vegeta

This isn't the topic for that question.

[Khin]

If Buu saga SSJ2 Goku was a 100. Then were would these lie

Super Perfect Cell
SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)
SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)
LSSJ Broly (Movie 10)
Dabura
Majin Vegeta

Majin Vegeta:
100
SSJ2 Gohan(Cell Games):
85
Super Perfect Cell:
85
LSSJ Broly(Movie 10):
80
SSJ2 Gohan(Buu Saga):
60
Dabra:
40
SSJ Gohan(Buu Saga):
30

I'm one of those few people that believe SSJ2 kid Gohan and Super Perfect Cell are equals.

1: Ichigo (current), Naruto (current), luffy (current), Torkio (current), kenshiro (end of the series), and lastly yusuke (end of the series) vs Goku (post Saiyan saga, before going to namaek)? Who would win? Will the more numbers make a difference a difference against goku? Or will they just be mere pest to this stage goku?

2: Vampire hunter d (novel version) vs whis?

3:Ssjgod goku (super) vs beerus 70% (BoG movie)

1: Goku stomps everyone in his path.

2: No idea.

3: Beerus wrecks Goku,like Lord Beerus said,i think there's no difference in power between the series and the movie one.

[Captain Space]

If Buu saga SSJ2 Goku was a 100. Then were would these lie

Super Perfect Cell
SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games)
SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga)
LSSJ Broly (Movie 10)
Dabura
Majin Vegeta

These are all just guesses, of course, I can't claim to be all that accurate, but...

Cell Games Gohan: 80
[Cell Games Gohan (holding back): 60]
[Cell Games Gohan (injured, vs. SP Cell): 40]

Super Perfect Cell: 60

Gohan (Buu saga): 50

LSSJ Broly: 35

Dabura: 25

Majin Vegeta: 100
[Pre-Majin SSJ2 Vegeta: 70]

(Honestly Dabura could be a lot lower than that though.)

[dbgtFO]

If Buu saga SSJ2 Goku was a 100. Then were would these lie

Super Perfect Cell: 66 2/3
SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games): 83 1/3
SSJ2 Gohan (Buu saga): 70
LSSJ Broly (Movie 10): 150
Dabura: 66 2/3
Majin Vegeta: 100.

[Khin]

Just made some new matches

1: Base Gohan(Mirai Trunks Saga) vs. Tenshinhan,Kuririn,Yamcha and Chaozu(All in Android Saga)

2: Base Trunks(Pre ROSAT) and Base Goten(Pre ROSAT) vs. Kibito

3: Tenshianhan(Saiyan Saga) vs. Yamcha(Saiyan Saga) vs. Kuririn(Saiyan Saga) vs. Raditz

4: Base God Goku(BOG) vs. Final Form Freeza(Post Training)

5: Ultimate Gohan vs. 2nd Form Freeza(Post Training)

6: Vegeta(Post Recoome Zenkai and Sleep) vs. 1rst Form Freeza(Post Revival but Pre Training)

7: Goku(Post Hospital Zenkai,No Kaioken) vs. Kid Vegeta

8: Bardock(Dragon Ball Minus) vs. Tenshinhan(Saiyan Saga)

9: Piccolo(Buu Saga) vs. MSSJ Mirai Trunks(Cell Games)

10: Yamcha vs LSSJ Broly(Equal Powers)

[Lord Beerus]

Just made some new matches

1: Base Gohan(Mirai Trunks Saga) vs. Tenshinhan,Kuririn,Yamcha and Chaozu(All in Android Saga)

2: Base Trunks(Pre ROSAT) and Base Goten(Pre ROSAT) vs. Kibito

3: Tenshianhan(Saiyan Saga) vs. Yamcha(Saiyan Saga) vs. Kuririn(Saiyan Saga) vs. Raditz

4: Base God Goku(BOG) vs. Final Form Freeza(Post Training)

5: Ultimate Gohan vs. 2nd Form Freeza(Post Training)

6: Vegeta(Post Recoome Zenkai and Sleep) vs. 1rst Form Freeza(Post Revival but Pre Training)

7: Goku(Post Hospital Zenkai,No Kaioken) vs. Kid Vegeta

8: Bardock(Dragon Ball Minus) vs. Tenshinhan(Saiyan Saga)

9: Piccolo(Buu Saga) vs. MSSJ Mirai Trunks(Cell Games)

10: Yamcha vs LSSJ Broly(Equal Powers)

- Gohan stomps all of the Earthlings
- Trunks and Goten overwhelm Kibito
- I'm really not sure. Any four of them could win
- I'd just be like ROF. Goku would win with mild effort.
- I think Ultimate Gohan would pull out the victory after a long hard battle.
- Vegeta gets stomped hard
- Kid Vegeta gets his ass kicked really badly
- Bardock takes this, but Tien goes down fighting
- Piccolo pretty much hit a brick wall after training in the ROSAT during the Cell arc, so I don't see him getting much stronger by the time Majin Boo arc began. So I'm giving this to Future Trunks.
- Yamcha still loses. Cuz Yamcha, yo.

[Captain Space]

Just made some new matches

1: Base Gohan(Mirai Trunks Saga) vs. Tenshinhan,Kuririn,Yamcha and Chaozu(All in Android Saga)

2: Base Trunks(Pre ROSAT) and Base Goten(Pre ROSAT) vs. Kibito

3: Tenshianhan(Saiyan Saga) vs. Yamcha(Saiyan Saga) vs. Kuririn(Saiyan Saga) vs. Raditz

4: Base God Goku(BOG) vs. Final Form Freeza(Post Training)

5: Ultimate Gohan vs. 2nd Form Freeza(Post Training)

6: Vegeta(Post Recoome Zenkai and Sleep) vs. 1rst Form Freeza(Post Revival but Pre Training)

7: Goku(Post Hospital Zenkai,No Kaioken) vs. Kid Vegeta

8: Bardock(Dragon Ball Minus) vs. Tenshinhan(Saiyan Saga)

9: Piccolo(Buu Saga) vs. MSSJ Mirai Trunks(Cell Games)

10: Yamcha vs LSSJ Broly(Equal Powers)

1. The humans 75%. Especially with Krillin. Gohan didn't go far beyond a million (if he even hit that) up to this point, and didn't really train after Namek until the android training thing, and he couldn't sustain that millionish for very long. Whereas I think it's quite likely Krillin and Tenshinhan were (stably) approaching or even past a million by the android arc.

2. No clue whatsoever.

3. I see Namek as the point Krillin surpassed Tenshinhan, so Ten wins here.

4. I have them as equals, so...probably Goku due to skill, chance of Freeza pulling off a win due to his special abilities (and fifth limb).

5. Pass.

6. This happened, briefly, and they were all but equal, but Vegeta was more out of breath afterwards, so Freeza wins after a difficult fight. Freeza didn't get stronger after being revived before he trained, right?

7. Going by the manga, almost certainly Goku. Going by anime/TV stuff, more than likely Vegeta (given the whole 10,000 thing).

8. No idea.

9. Piccolo, but I don't really have much basis for this other than "they didn't seem too far apart at the Cell Games, and seven years, man".

10. Broly has little to no martial arts skill, with equalised power Yamcha stomps.

[Blackstripe]

Hmm, crossover time.

Arrival on Namek Gokuu (can only use KKx2) vs Raizen (in his prime) from Yu Yu Hakusho

[Captain Space]

Hmm, crossover time.

Arrival on Namek Gokuu (can only use KKx2) vs Raizen (in his prime) from Yu Yu Hakusho

I would say Goku stomps, but there's an interpretation of YYH's S-class beings that has them as planet-busters.

I don't agree with this interpretation, but it exists and quite a few people believe it and I basically get what they mean. (I have them more at mountain-level, and speed-wise they haven't shown anything that puts them nearly as fast as late saiyan arc Goku if I recall correctly. So I say this Goku far outclasses 'em.)

[Lord Beerus]

Videl vs. Sakura Kasugano

Sakura.

[Kamiccolo9]

Out of curiosity, what differentiates "Arrival on Namek Goku" from "Saiyan Arc Goku," or "Fighting Freeza Goku?"

Like, aside from their actual Battle Powers, what have any of them done that the others couldn't do? Battle Powers are fine and all for comparing within the series itself, but they don't really work when going across different universes like this.

I mean, destructive feats-wise, what has Super Vegetto done that 23rd Budokai Goku couldn't do? I mean, sure, you can say that the former is much, much stronger, but, when outside of the internal scale that the series uses for itself, you can't really quantify anything when comparing to other franchises.


Incidentally, and time for a bit of a rant, I suppose, Dragon Ball is somewhat difficult to compare to other franchises in these versus debates because virtually every character demonstrates the same power set. Sure, you have Buu's biology, the androids "infinite ki," and Janemba's *cough* "reality warping," (which, I'm sorry to say to the less-informed, is a bit of a joke), but, for the most part, they're just a bunch of super strong, super fast guy who can shoot lasers.

The Dragon Ball powerset is really good at fighting other guys with roughly the same powerset, but it's not particularly versatile. That's why I maintain, and will debate this, if need be, that, aside from a few special cases, they auto-lose to telepaths, reality-warpers, mages, time travellers, etc. They're just too limited in what they can do.

Granted, they are very good at what they do, but the series doesn't seem to want to leave that comfort zone. It doesn't matter how hard or fast you can punch if the other guy can turn your speed into cupcake and rearrange your molecules into a Teletubby.

On-topic, no idea who this Raizen guy is, so no comment. I'm assuming he has a roughly similar powerset to a Saiyan?

[Hellspawn28]

Hmm, crossover time.

Arrival on Namek Gokuu (can only use KKx2) vs Raizen (in his prime) from Yu Yu Hakusho

Goku would stomp. He is much faster and has more raw power. Anyone around Nappa or higher can beat anyone from Yu Yu Hakusho. Raizen hardly has any feats that would put him around Radditz or higher.

[Captain Space]

Excellent point.

Out of curiosity, what differentiates "Arrival on Namek Goku" from "Saiyan Arc Goku," or "Fighting Freeza Goku?"

If you're referring specifically to my post, I just mentioned saiyan arc Goku because of his speed feat on the return journey down Snake Way; i.e. the least powerful version of Goku I feel confident in saying no YYH character could match in speed.

Like, aside from their actual Battle Powers, what have any of them done that the others couldn't do? Battle Powers are fine and all for comparing within the series itself, but they don't really work when going across different universes like this.

I mean, destructive feats-wise, what has Super Vegetto done that 23rd Budokai Goku couldn't do? I mean, sure, you can say that the former is much, much stronger, but, when outside of the internal scale that the series uses for itself, you can't really quantify anything when comparing to other franchises.

Well, we can use that handy internal scale to say that Vegetto could destroy a planet with ease if he so wished, or do laps around the earth in under half an hour; I think that he can do these things is basically indisputable despite the fact that he never chose to do so. 23rd Goku, fairly indisputably, cannot.

Incidentally, and time for a bit of a rant, I suppose, Dragon Ball is somewhat difficult to compare to other franchises in these versus debates because virtually every character demonstrates the same power set. Sure, you have Buu's biology, the androids "infinite ki," and Janemba's *cough* "reality warping," (which, I'm sorry to say to the less-informed, is a bit of a joke), but, for the most part, they're just a bunch of super strong, super fast guy who can shoot lasers.

The Dragon Ball powerset is really good at fighting other guys with roughly the same powerset, but it's not particularly versatile. That's why I maintain, and will debate this, if need be, that, aside from a few special cases, they auto-lose to telepaths, reality-warpers, mages, time travellers, etc. They're just too limited in what they can do.

Depends on the mage or whatever. They auto-lose to a Sorcerer Supreme because f***ing doy, but if we're talking Harry Potter, normal humans can dodge those spells. (I know you said "aside from a few special cases" but I think instances of lower-powered mages, telepaths, etc. are more common than that).

Granted, they are very good at what they do, but the series doesn't seem to want to leave that comfort zone. It doesn't matter how hard or fast you can punch if the other guy can turn your speed into cupcake and rearrange your molecules into a Teletubby.

On-topic, no idea who this Raizen guy is, so no comment. I'm assuming he has a roughly similar powerset to a Saiyan?

I mean, yeah, that's the kind of series it is. It's unlikely to ever produce a character that can take on a true reality-warper because there's no satisfying way to have Goku punch such a character to death without significantly changing his own powers to be very un-Goku-like (or having an entirely MacGuffin-derived victory that doesn't revolve at all around fighting ability, which would also be a hard pill to swallow).

Raizen, you're basically right. Yu Yu Hakusho is a shonen fighter which starts rather street-level but ends up in the DBZ vein (though always considerably darker), and its main powerset is all but indistinguishable from ki (though there is a secondary, very different powerset which produces some interesting psychic powers). Highest destructive feat is Yusuke and Sensui (both of whom are far inferior to Raizen)'s fight destroying a mountain as they fought near it (whether they actually struck it isn't shown, it's a far-off shot). As for speed, I dunno exactly, way supersonic but as I said before, I don't think there's anything comparable to Goku's return journey down Snake Way

I mean this is a good example of what you're saying. Against other anime(/whatever) about super-strong, super-fast guys who shoot lasers, DBZ tends to do well, at least. (I mean...then you have the occasional thing like Saint Seiya, but most of the time.)

[Kamiccolo9]

Well yeah, the "struggle to levitate stuff even when left alone to concentrate" type mages are a bit different than the "think-and-demons-from-hell-arise-to-suck-out-your-soul-with-a-straw" mages, but I had thought that was beyond dispute.

Nobody brings up those guys in here, anyway.

Incidentally, though, Voldemort or Dumbledore would annihilate Babidi.

I suppose that can be the next matchup.

[Captain Space]

Well yeah, the "struggle to levitate stuff even when left alone to concentrate" type mages are a bit different than the "think-and-demons-from-hell-arise-to-suck-out-your-soul-with-a-straw" mages, but I had thought that was beyond dispute.

Nobody brings up those guys in here, anyway.

Incidentally, though, Voldemort or Dumbledore would annihilate Babidi.

I suppose that can be the next matchup.

Depends how much stock you put in him dodging stray ki blast shots. Given that I think most of those were anime-only, and the fact that I think the Tenkaichi Budokai announcer has done the same once (maybe?)...probably not much stock?

[Kamiccolo9]

Well yeah, the "struggle to levitate stuff even when left alone to concentrate" type mages are a bit different than the "think-and-demons-from-hell-arise-to-suck-out-your-soul-with-a-straw" mages, but I had thought that was beyond dispute.

Nobody brings up those guys in here, anyway.

Incidentally, though, Voldemort or Dumbledore would annihilate Babidi.

I suppose that can be the next matchup.

Depends how much stock you put in him dodging stray ki blast shots. Given that I think most of those were anime-only, and the fact that I think the Tenkaichi Budokai announcer has done the same once (maybe?)...probably not much stock?

I don't think that Babidi has ever been shown to even use ki. The only offensive thing I think he's done has involved magical telepathy, and a Shield Charm has been shown to repel that before.

[Captain Space]

I don't think that Babidi has ever been shown to even use ki. The only offensive thing I think he's done has involved magical telepathy, and a Shield Charm has been shown to repel that before.

Never said he did, just that he managed to get out of the way of some stray blasts from other characters, but that I don't think that's indicative of anything.

[Kamiccolo9]

I don't think that Babidi has ever been shown to even use ki. The only offensive thing I think he's done has involved magical telepathy, and a Shield Charm has been shown to repel that before.

Never said he did, just that he managed to get out of the way of some stray blasts from other characters, but that I don't think that's indicative of anything.

Ah. Well, regardless, not all Harry Potter spells are straight-line stuff. The Imperious Curse doesn't require a "bolt" to actually connect; you just point at the person. Same with the Cruciatus Curse. Both of those would probably take out Babidi; I don't see him having the force of will to overcome the former, or the pain threshold for the latter.

[Captain Space]

Ah. Well, regardless, not all Harry Potter spells are straight-line stuff. The Imperious Curse doesn't require a "bolt" to actually connect; you just point at the person. Same with the Cruciatus Curse. Both of those would probably take out Babidi; I don't see him having the force of will to overcome the former, or the pain threshold for the latter.

Yeah, makes sense.

Though if they were to try them on an actual ki fighter, I'd assume that dodging out of the way means they're not pointing at you any more, so it won't affect you. But that relies on the target knowing to dodge something they can't see purely on the basis that somebody is pointing a stick at them and shouting... (I mean, they're probably expecting a beam of some kind, so...maybe? Depends on the character.)

[Kamiccolo9]

Ah. Well, regardless, not all Harry Potter spells are straight-line stuff. The Imperious Curse doesn't require a "bolt" to actually connect; you just point at the person. Same with the Cruciatus Curse. Both of those would probably take out Babidi; I don't see him having the force of will to overcome the former, or the pain threshold for the latter.

Yeah, makes sense.

Though if they were to try them on an actual ki fighter, I'd assume that dodging out of the way means they're not pointing at you any more, so it won't affect you. But that relies on the target knowing to dodge something they can't see purely on the basis that somebody is pointing a stick at them and shouting... (I mean, they're probably expecting a beam of some kind, so...maybe? Depends on the character.)

I can honestly see Goku or Vegeta agreeing to take a Killing Curse head on