Dub name changes

[nickzambuto]

If there is no distinction between L and R in Japan, why is Krillin not an acceptable translation?

[fadeddreams5]

The point of this topic wasn't me ti say I'm a purist i believe both have equal value, I just don't understand WHY these changes had to happen did FUNi want to pretend that DBZ wasn't from Japan, theres no real logical reason why the names or spellings had to change especially if they are used in the manga ( except Mr Satan which i hope is changing in Viz's fully uncut 3in1 sets)

This was very common back in the 90s and early 2000s. It isn't until the digital era and recently that companies have tried to be more faithful to the original source material of shows. The reason was, more or less, what you would think: they felt certain names were too "Japanese" (or offensive) and other cultural references would fly over people's heads, so many elements in many different series were "Americanized." A big example is Sailor Moon, which had all the names of the sailor scouts changed to typical American ones. To be honest, I liked that decision, given their appearance, but that's just me.

[TheBlackPaladin]

If there is no distinction between L and R in Japan, why is Krillin not an acceptable translation?

It is an acceptable translation, that's what we've been saying.

[Super Sonic]

The point of this topic wasn't me ti say I'm a purist i believe both have equal value, I just don't understand WHY these changes had to happen did FUNi want to pretend that DBZ wasn't from Japan, theres no real logical reason why the names or spellings had to change especially if they are used in the manga ( except Mr Satan which i hope is changing in Viz's fully uncut 3in1 sets)

In the old days, the mindset was "The more Japanese, the less American kids will like it". Hence why most pre-90s anime that aired on US tv had name changes. Sailor Moon was one of the first where the main characters, the name changes fit actually. And as others said, "Krillin" is easier to say, and fits lip sync better. Also remember a native English speaker, "Kuririn" looks like it's pronounced "Kuh-ri-rin" at first glance. So going to Krillin helped guys get closer.

[Thedoctor2016]

I believe it does have to do with the late 90s and american tv perceptions as now in the era of streaming and home media we have got much closer translations such as BOG and RF i have saw RF dubbed and was very impressed except Krillin which they won't change the script very close to what i would feel the JP one with subs will be and i hope super has such good dub too

[TheGreatness25]

Mr. Satan's name was only changed on the edited version of the show. Even going back to the singles, he was always Mr. Satan. As for Kuririn, well... I mean it sounds weird. I don't mean that other names aren't strange, they obviously are. What I'm saying is that it's such a tongue-twister of a Japanese name that it completely doesn't blend into an English sentence at all.

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well, quick question about Mr. Satan/Hercule. Was FUNimation the first to come up with the name, "Hercule"? Because I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember hearing that they called him that in the French dub as well. If this is true, it's likely a similar censorship concern. Keep in mind that the French dub aired in the early-mid 90's, before TV shows with that many episodes were getting home video releases, so since TV was the only avenue for airing a series that long, censorship was a bigger concern. I'm just asking because I have a theory that perhaps Toei themselves sent out a list of pre-approved names.

I think I also remember reading somewhere that "Krillin"--which, again, is not a change, it's more of an alternative romanization choice--was also Toei's suggestion.

[ShadowDude112]

Well, quick question about Mr. Satan/Hercule. Was FUNimation the first to come up with the name, "Hercule"? Because I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember hearing that they called him that in the French dub as well. If this is true, it's likely a similar censorship concern. Keep in mind that the French dub aired in the early-mid 90's, before TV shows with that many episodes were getting home video releases, so since TV was the only avenue for airing a series that long, censorship was a bigger concern. I'm just asking because I have a theory that perhaps Toei themselves sent out a list of pre-approved names.

I think I also remember reading somewhere that "Krillin"--which, again, is not a change, it's more of an alternative romanization choice--was also Toei's suggestion.

The Hercule thing, I recall hearing it originated in France first. Also, didn't someone on here say an early US toy for Mr. Satan called him "Mr. Savage"?

[Quebaz]

Well, quick question about Mr. Satan/Hercule. Was FUNimation the first to come up with the name, "Hercule"? Because I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember hearing that they called him that in the French dub as well. If this is true, it's likely a similar censorship concern. Keep in mind that the French dub aired in the early-mid 90's, before TV shows with that many episodes were getting home video releases, so since TV was the only avenue for airing a series that long, censorship was a bigger concern. I'm just asking because I have a theory that perhaps Toei themselves sent out a list of pre-approved names.

I think I also remember reading somewhere that "Krillin"--which, again, is not a change, it's more of an alternative romanization choice--was also Toei's suggestion.

In France, it wasn't really for censorship because they switched Piccolo's name to "Satan Petit Coeur" (Satan's Little Heart) so it might have been them getting to that part of the Story and "Whoops we already have a character with that name".

[TheBlackPaladin]

Well, quick question about Mr. Satan/Hercule. Was FUNimation the first to come up with the name, "Hercule"? Because I could be wrong, but I vaguely remember hearing that they called him that in the French dub as well. If this is true, it's likely a similar censorship concern. Keep in mind that the French dub aired in the early-mid 90's, before TV shows with that many episodes were getting home video releases, so since TV was the only avenue for airing a series that long, censorship was a bigger concern. I'm just asking because I have a theory that perhaps Toei themselves sent out a list of pre-approved names.

I think I also remember reading somewhere that "Krillin"--which, again, is not a change, it's more of an alternative romanization choice--was also Toei's suggestion.

In France, it wasn't really for censorship because they switched Piccolo's name to "Satan Petit Coeur" (Satan's Little Heart) so it might have been them getting to that part of the Story and "Whoops we already have a character with that name".

Thanks for confirming!

Still, what are the odds that both the French dub and the English dub(s) just happened to come up with the same alternative name for Mr. Satan? I mean, it possible, sure, but if it's a coincidence, then it's an amazing one. This only makes me believe more that the alternative names FUNimation came up with were pre-approved by Toei.

[Soppa Saia People]

There are some dub names I see we they changed such as Her.Cule, Vegito, master Roshi and King Piccolo as most were censorship or Funi couldn't do anything about it. But shit like Tie.n, sabiaman, Fr(I)zea and Launch just make no sense on why they were changed.

[precita]

Isn't Launch technically correct the way its pronounced in Japan? Same way Karin was changed to K"o"rin in the dub?

[B]

Isn't Launch technically correct the way its pronounced in Japan?

Strictly from a phonetic standpoint, yeah. "Launch" is about as correct as "Ranch", as far as I see it though. People have offered up "she fires a bazooka in her first appearance" as a form of reasoning, but it looks flimsy standing next to the abundance of food puns you see in the series(and Dr. Slump, which Lunch is not far removed from).

[TheGreatness25]

Um what is wrong with Freeza's dub spelling? Yeah it looks stupid, but is that a "change?" Freeza's official name isn't in English character, so you can spell it however as long as it sounds the same. It sounds the same. Same goes for every name. I just find it weird that people complain about "changes" where the spelling is simply not the one that they prefer. Like Kuririn's name. It sounds like "Kurileen." Is "Krillin" such a far-fetched thing? I suppose we should be calling the show "Duragon Boro." How is "Vegito" a name change? How are Saibaimens' names changed? How is Lunch's name changed? Again, their true names are not in English, so if the English name is spelled in a way that sounds like the original (or how it would sound in English) then that's fine enough. Besides the names of the attacks and some minor characters, I can't really think of any whose names were really changed to be honest. Bra comes to mind but she's such a minor character and her name is said maybe twice in the entire series (all in GT, by the way), that I don't even really care.

I don't know, I don't see the big deal. Although I do have a list of all of the name changes floating around somewhere.

[precita]

People hate the name changes because many of them are from the Saban dub era when DBZ was "americanized" for kids, rather than treated like a real anime dub like it would be if it was made today. Remember back in the 90's anime dubs were still in their infancy and America was experiencing anime for the first time, so they didn't care about keeping things faithful back then because they didn't think anyone would care.

Almost every major characters english name was altered in some way aside from a few. The sad thing is all these names stuck for a decade later because FUNI refused to change any of them (aside from T'i"en being called Tienshinhan in the Dragonball dub), and that's about it.

Master Roshi's name is probably the biggest offender because it was pulled out of nowhere and stuck.

[Soppa Saia People]

People hate the name changes because many of them are from the Saban dub era when DBZ was "americanized" for kids, rather than treated like a real anime dub like it would be if it was made today. Remember back in the 90's anime dubs were still in their infancy and America was experiencing anime for the first time, so they didn't care about keeping things faithful back then because they didn't think anyone would care.

Almost every major characters english name was altered in some way aside from a few. The sad thing is all these names stuck for a decade later because FUNI refused to change any of them (aside from T'i"en being called Tenshinhan in the Dragonball dub), and that's about it.

Master Roshi's name is probably the biggest offender because it was pulled out of nowhere and stuck.

To be fair to the master roshi and Vegito names, Funi couldn't do anything about it, Kame'sennin might sound weird to an English speaker and Vegtteo wouldn't make any sense. (And vegrot sounds stupid)

[precita]

I like the name Master Roshi but that's only because I grew up with the FUNI dub first like most people. Had I been an original fan I would have thought that was a weird name.

[VegettoEX]

To be fair to the master roshi and Vegito names, Funi couldn't do anything about it, Kame'sennin might sound weird to an English speaker and Vegtteo wouldn't make any sense. (And vegrot sounds stupid)

Nothing wrong with just calling him the "Turtle Hermit" or "Turtle Master" or "Turtle Sage". They presumably didn't because their early translated scripts called him "Master Roshi" and they just used that without a second thought.

"Vegetto" actually WAS the spelling for the character's name for a little bit (see: "Final Bout" English release), and since it's pronounced exactly the same as "Vegito", I don't really see an issue/problem with either of them... except the "i" in "Vegito" comes out of absolutely nowhere (similar to their "Freeza" spelling...).

[Baggie_Saiyan]

What about the Dragon, is Shenron accurate?

[VegettoEX]

What about the Dragon, is Shenron accurate?

This is something we just covered extensively in our latest podcast episode.

Yes and no.

Yes, "Shenron" is a direct romanization of the Japanese reading of the Japanese furigana (シェンロン) above the name (神龍). The thing is, that's not the native Japanese reading: "shin-ryu" would be the native Japanese reading of those kanji. "Shenron" is just an APPROXIMATION of the Chinese pronunciation.

It's sorta kinda like if you said "Torankusu" aloud as the characters' name. Yeah, that's the Japanese reading of the name, but its origin is an English word. Why use the intermediary when you have the original?

In that case, "Shenlong" is the best spelling of the name in our alphabet.

(Insert general disclaimer here that Julian and Jake are better suited for explaining this stuff, but I got here first...!)