Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:37 am

Victorious wrote:Chapter: 177, P1.2-4, P2.1
Tenshinhan: “Son, you are truly incredible. 3 years ago, your strength was all but perfect. I’m amazed that you’ve managed to go so far above even that. However, there’s one thing that you haven’t changed that much from 3 years ago. And that’s something especially important in battle…speed!”

Ah, touche. I only checked the Tenshinhan part of the Strength Checker. Guess the Goku and Daimao levels are as dismissable as Roshi's 180 from that same arc.

Victorious wrote:
Re Piccolo v Trunks: Piccolo didn't know SSj Trunks exact ki memorized to a numerical tee, nor did he have his own.
Weak argument and nothing really implies this either, Piccolo had SSJ2 Kid Gohan's power memorized 7 years later in the Buu saga when he was comparing it with SSJ2 Majin Vegeta's power.

Fair point, but that doesn't help make sense of how absurd it is to catch up with two massive power jumps from a few years of training.

In addition to that, I don't feel that Piccolo's confidence against 19 and 20 means much, as it was apparent that the two weren't the powerful monsters that they had anticipated. Piccolo isn't the type to shy away from a fight just because he thinks he'll be outmatched, so I doubt that him being steadfast at all means that he believes he can win. Add that to the fact that they had clearly anticipated stronger opponents than they got:

Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P7.4
Vegeta: “I’ve realized by watching your faint movements up to now…That you guys don’t seem as terrible as the rumors made out.”

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 12:49 am

That....may serve as a means to rationalize the numbers. Didn't think of it that way. Thanks!

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Sun Apr 14, 2013 7:09 pm

Victorious wrote:Goku with half a year training went from 416 to 8,000..then 6 days training to 90,000..a few hours later he's at 3,000,000 after a zenkai.

It's Dragon Ball, the entire story is absurd.

Yes, but you seem to forget that story allows those power boosts to make sense. The zenkais are automatic boosts in power, and Goku received 4 of them on the way to Namek. Goku's training with Kaio was vastly superior to his regular Earthly training, which is why it he had such a great gain.

And of course, Tenshinhan fought Goku there. But he didn't fight Goku right after Goku drank the God Water.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Tue Apr 16, 2013 3:01 pm

RandomGuy96 wrote:Like I said earlier, Piccolo is explicitly compared to a Super Saiyan, and seems to be in the same "tier" as them at least, so it's very unlikely he's a hundred times weaker than them like you seem to think.

Not exactly:

Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P12.4
Kuririn: “He’s st-strong…! What kind of training did Piccolo do…And he’s not even a Su-Super Saiyan…”

Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 347 (DBZ 153), P3.5
Tenshinhan: “I don’t like that Piccolo and Vegeta have powered up so extraordinarily, but for now at least it’s a relief…”

This to me just seems like Krillin being surprised that Piccolo could be so far ahead of the humans without being a SSj. That doesn't mean Piccolo is as strong as a SSJ, just that Piccolo is insanely more powerful than he is, just like a SSj is insanely more powerful than he is. Tenshinhan also seems to be commenting on the fact that both of the non-humans are so far ahead of the humans. That doesn't necessarily mean that they're equally ridiculously far ahead of the humans. Granted, they very well could be in the same tier, but there's nothing that explicitly suggests that they are. Then we have this:

Strength Checker wrote:Chapter: 346 (DBZ 152), P1.5
No.20: “So then…Who’s energy shall I take?...So Piccolo’s the most powerful after Vegeta, huh?...”

I personally take this to mean that Piccolo's not in the same tier as the SSjs, because what point would there be in making a distinction in their power if they were?

To add to this, I was watching the anime last night (yeah, yeah, I know, manga only etc), and right after #17 and #18 beat everybody, a comment was made to the effect of "if the Super Saiyans can't beat them then nobody can!" I don't remember the exact wording, and I'm not at home so I can't check what the exact wording was (but I can when I get home later tonight).

In short, I think things are just vague enough that the statements could be interpreted as meaning that Piccolo is in the SSj tier, or that he is below SSj tier, but still far beyond what the humans could hope to achieve. And the thing that tips it towards the latter for me is trying to accept that he could catch up with 2 power boosts in just a few years of training. And I don't feel that just because somebody increased their BP by X times in Y amount of time that they'll have that exact same growth pattern for that same kind of training every time they train. For all we know the increase in BP could be through addition, rather than multiplication, but I doubt it's either. Power growth just doesn't seem to be that linear and formulaic to me.

Zephyr · Post by **Zephyr** » Sun Nov 01, 2015 10:11 pm

How do you guys generally compare the early Android arc characters to their Movie 7 counterparts?

Zeta_Patchouli · Post by **Zeta_Patchouli** » Mon May 19, 2014 2:12 am

Eh. I wrote up a set a while ago, so I thought I might as well share them. I made these to basically attempt to crunch down some numbers in order to keep it from inflating a bunch even in a multiplier system. I likely failed, though I did give it an attempt. I only did Dragon Ball Z because I'm both more familiar with it, and because really, I didn't feel like doing such minute details on the original Dragon Ball. I'd only do that if for some reason I decided to make my own system, which isn't happening.

Now, a bit of a note about this list. In general, if a fighter is about 10% stronger than the opponent, they have a fairly large lead on their opponent. One that could mean a fairly easy fight, even. There are exceptions, yes, but for this, this is generally the rule. I would have had my own commentary on this list, but... I am long-winded. Way too long-winded for the character count.

Now let's begin. However, I shall list the multipliers here instead of where they're appropriate.

Super Saiyan Multipliers

Spoiler:

Battle with Raditz

Spoiler:

The Others

Spoiler:

Battle with Nappa and Vegeta

Spoiler:

The Crisis on Namek

Spoiler:

Ginyu Force Assemble!

Spoiler:

The Chilling Lord Freeza

Spoiler:

The Legendary Super Saiyan

Spoiler:

The Arrival of Freeza and the Mysterious Boy

Spoiler:

Android Attack

Spoiler:

The Imperfect Cell

Spoiler:

Ascended Saiyans and Perfection

Spoiler:

The Cell Games

Spoiler:

Releasing Majin Boo

Spoiler:

Big Bad Boo

Spoiler:

Fusions and Mystics and Absorptions oh my!

Spoiler:

Pure Boo

Spoiler:

10 years later...

Spoiler:

There are people I likely forgot, and if so, I apologize. On this list, I will not list the Battle of the Gods, as the Gods are not particularly measurable with the rest unless they somehow get a comparison between them and Boo or SSJ3 Goku or Gohan or something. And movies are their own thing.

Also, I apologize for taking your format, dbgtFO, but it really was the best format I could see for this kind of list.

Zeta_Patchouli · Post by **Zeta_Patchouli** » Mon May 19, 2014 11:42 am

Huh. I could've sworn he did some training before that. From what I can tell, it took Vegeta a few months to master the lesser form, and Trunks a while to even really get to Ultra. Hmm... maybe... I'm not going to change the multipliers, but I may have to fiddle with the levels of everyone around this point. Semi-Perfect Cell's boost was a bit modified from a weaker point anyway. Perhaps...

I'll do some slight tweaking in that arc. Weakening Cell, Vegeta and Trunks a touch. I know they got a lot stronger in the time chamber, too, even afterwards. Goku and Gohan just outstripped them there. Although Cell's full power will likely remain the same.

Zeta_Patchouli · Post by **Zeta_Patchouli** » Mon May 19, 2014 9:50 pm

Zombie wrote:How did Krillin go from 210K to 2 million in 10 days?

I'm not going to lie, I did kind of throw them a bone there was my original thinking. What confuses me more is how he jumped from 13k to 75k in the Freeza arc when there is hardly any time to adjust. Even other sources tend to put him as much higher there somehow, despite the fact that there is no Zenkai boosts or anything there. However, I will reverse it as I did forget a few things. That area tends to confuse me due to just how fast people tend to accelerate in power there.

Zeta_Patchouli · Post by **Zeta_Patchouli** » Tue May 20, 2014 3:05 am

75,000 is a number that seems to be thrown around a lot. It was not in the Daiz, though, instead in V-jump from what I can tell. In the grand scheme of things, I suppose it doesn't matter too much, but it was a point of confusion. I didn't know that it was still working on Krillin at that point.

Zeta_Patchouli · Post by **Zeta_Patchouli** » Tue Aug 12, 2014 4:38 pm

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Out of curiosity, where does everyone put Broly as well as his LSSJ multiplier.

As little as I contribute, I might as well do so here because it might be fun! Now, let's tackle this one first. Broly is quite the touchy subject to mess with as many people tend to bloat him hilariously, even in his movie 8 appearance. While he is a formidable opponent, he is not the be all end all opponent. Even his movie 10 appearance isn't, really, even if it's a lot closer.

Movie 8. What if Vegeta beat Cell and Goku and Gohan were taken out of the time chamber early because of that? Well, that's what it seems like it would be, anyway, given that Gohan can use Super Saiyan and that Vegeta uses his Ascended form.

Goku - 23 million
- Super Saiyan - 1.15 billion
Vegeta - 19 million
- Super Saiyan - 950 million
- Ascended Super Saiyan - 1.14 billion
Trunks - 18 million
- Super Saiyan - 900 million
Gohan - 16 million
- Super Saiyan - 800 million
Piccolo - 600 million

Paragas - 12000
Broly - 17 million
- Super Saiyan - 850 million
- Legendary Super Saiyan - 1.87 billion

And here are the power levels for the movie I have. Note, while Broly was said to be weaker than Paragas in the movie, that was due to the slave crown suppressing his power. These levels are definitely stronger than the ones used to defeat Semi-perfect Cell, but they didn't exactly train super hard after that because... well... the threat was over!

So my version of Broly is likely underpowered compared to a lot of peoples in Movie 8. Far weaker than Perfect Cell at full power (2.4 billion), but he is still definitely able to work out well here, given that even Goku's power is so much weaker.

In movie 10, however, it seems to continue after that timeline. Gohan trained and unlocked SSJ2 some other way, since he did mention getting stronger (while in canon he actually would've gotten much weaker).

Broly - 35 million
- Super Saiyan - 1.75 billion
- Legendary Super Saiyan - 3.85 billion

Gohan - 29 million
- Super Saiyan - 1.45 billion
- Super Saiyan 2 - 2.9 billion

I will admit, though, my memory of this movie is very fuzzy, and I have no great desire to watch it again. However, let's pull from my list of people he's about as strong as! He's definitely above Gohan. That's where Gohan was in my original list for canon.

Note: I tend to peg Broly's LSSJ form at x110 because why not. Doesn't really seem to hurt much if I do.

KentalSSJ6 wrote:Now for his video game forms. Where would you put his SSJ2, 3, and 4 forms at?

Okay. Now. For this, I will use his movie 10 self, as it's most relevant. This does not reflect anything of Heroes because I have never seen it. This is just the multipliers I'm using for his power level.

Broly - 35 million
- Super Saiyan - 1.75 billion
- Super Saiyan 2 - 3.5 billion
- Legendary Super Saiyan - 3.85 billion
- Super Saiyan 3 - 14 billion
- Super Saiyan 4 (x1000 for the sake of arguement here) - 35 billion

These are what I would put him at if I were to give him these various forms. Everything I say here is of my own opinion about a character I'm not a big fan of. I tried to do him justice, he is still incredibly powerful. Thank you for reading this long, stupid, rambling post.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 3:10 am

Well here is my PL list (my personal canon), feedback is welcome.

In The Beginning

Bardock
~ Initial: 8,000
~ Ozaru (*10): 80,000
~ After Zenkai And Back To Normal: 9,800
~ Weakened By Dodoria: 2,000
~ Fainaru Supirittsu Kyanon (*1.5): 3,000

Toma
~ Initial: 4,500
~ Ozaru (*10): 45,000
~ Weakened By Dodoria's Elite And Back To Normal: 500

Totepo
~ Initial: 4,200
~ Ozaru (*10): 42,000
~ Weakened By Dodoria's Elite And Back To Normal: 1,000

Panpūkin
~ Initial: 4,000
~ Ozaru (*10): 40,000

Seripa
~ Initial: 3,800
~ Ozaru (*10): 38,000

Kanassan Warriors: 9,000 - 12,000

Toro
~ Initial: 12,000
~ Weakened: 3,000

Meatians: 2,000 - 2,500

Dodoria's Elite: 6,000 - 6,500

Dodoria: 20,000

Zarbon: 22,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000

Freeza’s Soldiers: 800 - 1,000

King Vegeta: 12,000

Kid Vegeta: 13,000

Nappa: 5,000

Saibamen: 1,200

Saiyans At Bar: 1,000 - 2,000

Baby Son Goku: 2

Son Gohan: 100

Raditz Arrival

Farmer: 5

Son Goku
~ With Weights: 334
~ Without Weights: 416
~ Kamehameha (*2.22): 924
~ Weakened By Raditz: 300

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 322
~ Without Weights: 408
~ Weakened By Raditz: 380
~ Makankōsappō (*3.5): 1,330
~ After Makankōsappō: 200
~ Second Makankōsappō (*3.5): 700
~ After Second Makankōsappō: 100

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 1
~ Scared: 710
~ Enraged: 1,307

Raditz
~ Initial: 1,225
~ Weakened By Son Gohan: 400

One Year For The Ultimate Battle

Kami-Sama: 300

Mr. Popo: 280

Milk: 150

Master Roshi: 139

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 250
~ After Kami's Training: 850

Krillin
~ Initial: 206
~ After Kami's Training: 750

Yamcha
~ Initial: 177
~ After Kami's Training: 650

Chaozu
~ Initial: 144
~ After Kami's Training: 500

Yajirobe
~ Initial: 152
~ After Kami's Training: 450

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 329
~ After 6 Months Of Training With Weights: 750
~ Without Weights: 1,000

Gohan
~ Initial: 1
~ Enraged: 1,500
~ After One Day In The Wild: 50
~ Ozaru (*10): 500
~ After 6 Months In The Wild: 350

Goku
~ After Running Snake Way With Weights: 1,000
~ Without Weights: 1,250
~ After 40 Days Of North Kaiosama's Training With Weights: 2,250
~ Without Weights: 2,500

Lord Enma: 2,000

Bubbles: 1,400

North Kaiosama: 3,500

The Most Powerful Saiyans Arrive

Piccolo
~ Suppressed: 1,220
~ Full Power: 2,000
~ Kikō (*1.2): 2,400

Son Gohan
~ Suppressed: 981
~ Full Power: 1,200
~ Enraged: 2,435
~ Masenkō (*1.15): 2,800

Krillin
~ Suppressed: 1,083
~ Full Power: 1,500
~ Kakusadan (*1.3): 1,950

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 1,700
~ Weakened By Nappa: 130
~ Kikōhō (*20): 2,600

Yamcha
~ Initial: 1,300

Chaozu
~ Initial: 1,000
~ Sayonara Ten-San (*2): 2,000

Saibamen
~ Initial: 1,200
~ Jibaku (*2): 2,400

Nappa
~ Relaxed: 2,500
~ Power Up: 3,200
~ Raiki (*1.2): 3,840
~ Derakkusu Bonbā (*1.15): 3,680

Vegeta
~ Relaxed: 2,500

Son Goku To Save the Day

Son Goku
~ Suppressed: 5,000
~ Full Power: 8,050
~ Kamehameha (*1.2): 9,660
~ Kaiōken: 16,100
~ Kaiōken x3: 24,150
~ After Kaiōken x3: 6,400
~ Kaiōken x3: 19,200
~ Kaiōken X3 Kamehameha (*2.5): 48,000
~ Kaiōken x4 Kamehameha (*2.5): 64,000
~ After Kaiōken x4: 2,000
~ Genki Dama: 120,000

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 1,200
~ Enraged: 4,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 500
~ Ozaru (*10): 5,000

Krillin
~ Initial: 1,500
~ Genki Dama: 40,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 600

Yajirobe: 800

Nappa
~ Initial: 3,200
~ Raiki (*1.2): 3,840
~ Full Power: 8,000
~ Bureiku Kyanon (*1.2): 9,600

Vegeta
~ Initial: 2,500
~ Power Up: 17,000
~ Full Power: 18,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 16,000
~ Gyarikku Hō (*3): 48,000
~ Weakened By Kaiōken x4 Kamehameha: 12,000
~ After Creating Artificial Moon: 8,000
~ Ozaru: 80,000
~ After Ozaru Transformation: 5,000
~ Weakened By Genki Dama: 1,500

Milk: 148

Karin: 150

Planet Namek

Son Gohan
~ Suppressed: 5
~ Full Power: 1,500
~ Enraged: 5,000
~ Potential Unlock Increase: 12,000

Krillin
~ Suppressed: 5
~ With Weights: 1,500
~ Without Weights: 1,750
~ Potential Unlock Increase: 11,000

Moori: 1,400

Old Namekian: 1,400

Dende: 10

Namekian Fighters
~ Suppressed: 1,000
~ Full Power: 3,000

Vegeta
~ Suppressed: 15,000
~ Full Power: 24,000
~ After Second Zenkai: 30,000

Son Goku
~ After Zenkai: 12,000
~ Training Under x50 Gravity: 40,000
~ Training Under x100 Gravity: 80,000
~ After Last Zenkai: 90,000

Nail
~ Suppressed: 10,000

Banan: 500

Sūi: 500

Cui: 18,000

Freeza’s Elite Soldiers: 1,250 - 2,000

Appule: 2,500

Dodoria: 20,000

Zarbon
~ Initial: 22,000
~ Transformed: 28,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000

The Ginyu Force

Krillin
~ Initial: 11,000
~ Continued Potencial Unlock Increase: 24,000

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 12,000
~ After Zenkai: 16,000
~ After Continued Potencial Unlock Increase: 28,000

Vegeta
~ Initial: 30,000
~ Fainaru Kurasshu (*1.2): 36,000
~ Weakened By Recoome: 5,000
~ After Zenkai: 50,000

Son Goku
~ Suppressed: 5,000
~ Bursts While Battling Burter, Jeise And Suppressed Ginyu: 60,000
~ Full Power: 90,000
~ Kaiōken: 180,000
~ In Ginyu's Body: 10,000

Nail
~ Suppressed: 10,000
~ Full Power: 42,000
~ After Regeneration: 35,000
~ Weakened By Freeza: 1,000

Dende
~ Initial: 10
~ Potencial Unlock Increase: 100

Guldo: 5,000

Recoome
~ Initial: 40,000
~ Eraser Cannon (*1.2): 48,000

Burter: 40,000

Jeice: 40,000

Ginyu:
~ Suppressed: 62,500
~ Full Power: 120,000
~ After Injuring Himself: 10,000
~ In Son Goku’s Body: 23,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000

Freeza's Wrath

Krillin
~ Continued Potential Unlock Increase: 180,000

Son Gohan
~ Continued Potential Unlock Increase: 240,000
~ Enraged: 900,000
~ Zenkai: 400,000
~ Enraged: 1,500,000
~ Bakuretsu Ranma (*1.2): 1,800,000

Piccolo
~ After North Kaiosama's Training With Weights: 260,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 300,000
~ Fused With Nail With Weights: 1,240,000
~ Without Weights: 1,400,000
~ Weakened By Freeza: 200,000

Vegeta
~ Initial: 325,000
~ Full Power: 500,000
~ Zenkai: 2,800,000
~ Fainaru Bāsuto Kyanon (*1.3): 3,640,000

Freeza
~ 3rd Suppression: 350,000
~ Full Power: 530,000
~ 2nd Suppression: 1,060,000
~ Power up: 1,175,000
~ Full Power: 1,325,000
~ 1st Suppression: 2,000,000
~ True Form: 2,700,000
~ Serious: 4,500,000

Son Goku's Hardest Battle

Krillin
~ Initial: 180,000
~ After Giving Energy: 10,000
~ Kamehameha (*1.5): 15,000
~ After Kamehameha: 500

Son Gohan
~ Initial: 400,000
~ After Giving Energy: 10,000
~ Masenkō (*1.5): 15,000
~ After Masenkō: 500

Piccolo
~ Without Weights: 1,400,000
~ Energy Given: 1,960,000
~ After Super Kick: 250,000

Freeza
~ Initial: 4,500,000
~ 50% of Full Power: 95,000,000
~ Weakened By Genki Dama: 84,000,000

Son Goku
~ After Zenzai: 4,000,000
~ Kaiōken x10: 40,000,000
~ Weakened By Freeza: 3,500,000
~ Kaiōken x20: 70,000,000
~ Kaiōken x20 Kamehameha (*1.5): 105,000,000
~ After Kaiōken x20 Kamehameha: 2,500,000
~ Weakened Even More By Freeza: 700,000
~ Genki Dama: 160,000,000
~ After Genki Dama: 100,000

The Legendary Super Saiyan

Freeza
~ Initial: 84,000,000
~ 70% of Full Power: 133,000,000
~ Full Power: 190,000,000
~ Noba Sutoraiku (*3): 570,000,000
~ After Noba Sutoraiku: 170,000,000
~ Weakened by Son Goku's Beating: 145,000,000
~ Cut In Half: 50
~ Energy Given: 10,000,000
~ Last Stand Energy Wave (*2): 20,000,000

Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan: 200,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 600,000,000
~ After Kamehameha: 160,000,000
~ After Giving Energy: 150,000,000

The Mysterious Stranger

Milk: 146

Chaozu: 50,000

Yamcha: 275,000

Tenshinhan: 325,000

Krillin: 350,000

Son Gohan: 450,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 4,200,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 4,700,000

Vegeta: 5,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Suppressed: 5
~ Base: 6,500,000
~ Super Saiyan: 320,000,000
~ Holding Back Against Son Goku: 240,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 8,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 400,000,000

Freeza's Soldiers: 500 - 1,000

Mecha Freeza
~ Suppressed: 105,000,000
~ Full Power Not Shown: 210,000,000

King Cold: 100,000,000

3 Years Later

Milk: 140

Yajirobe: 750

Chaozu: 250,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Tenshinhan: 5,500,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Son Gohan: 8,500,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 11,600,000
~ Super Saiyan: 580,000,000
~ Sick Super Saiyan: 440,000,000
~ After Kamehameha: 280,000,000
~ More Sick: 151,000,000
~ Severely Sick And Back To Base: 3,020,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 12,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 600,000,000
~ After Energy Taken: 450,000,000
~ Biggu Ban Atakku (*3): 1,350,000,000
~ After Biggu Ban Atakku: 330,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights Suppressed: 40,000,000
~ With Weights: 450,000,000
~ Without Weights: 500,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 11,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 550,000,000

#19
~ Initial: 300,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 250,000,000
~ After Son Goku's Kamehameha Absorption: 357,000,000
~ After Son Goku's Energy Absorption: 360,000,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 220,000,000
~ After Vegeta's Energy Absorption: 370,000,000
~ Crippled By Vegeta: 200,000,000

#20
~ Initial: 350,000,000
~ After Yamcha's Energy Absorption: 354,000,000
~ After Vegeta's Power Energy Ball Absorption: 380,000,000
~ After Piccolo's Energy Absorption: 420,000,000
~ Weakened By Piccolo: 360,000,000

Androids #17 And #18

Vegeta
~ Base: 12,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 600,000,000
~ Weakened By #18: 500,000,000
~ Arm Broken: 340,000,000
~ Weakened Even More By #18: 180,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 11,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 550,000,000
~ Weakened By #17: 200,000,000

Piccolo: 500,000,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Tenshinhan: 5,500,000

#18
~ Initial: 625,000,000
~ Serious: 700,000,000
~ Full Power: 900,000,000

#17
~ Initial: 950,000,000
~ Full Power: 1,000,000,000

#16: 5,500,000,000

Cell The Ultimate Android

Piccolo
~ Fused With Kami With Weights And Suppressed: 500,000,000
~ With Weights Power Up: 950,000,000
~ After Energy Taken By Cell: 920,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 900,000,000
~ Energy Regained With Weights: 950,000,000
~ Without Weights: 1,000,000,000
~ Makūhōidan (*1.5): 1,500,000,000
~ Weakened By #17: 980,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 800,000,000
~ Gekiretsu Kōdan (*3.5): 2,800,000,000
~ After Gekiretsu Kōdan: 600,000,000
~ Neck Broken: 5,000,000

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 5,500,000
~ Shin Kikōhō (*2000): 11,000,000,000

#16
~ Initial: 5,500,000,000
~ Heruzu Furasshu (*1.5): 8,250,000,000
~ Damaged By Cell: 550,000,000

#17
~ Initial: 950,000,000
~ Initial: 1,000,000,000
~ Energy Shield (*2): 2,000,000,000

Cell
~ Initial: 400,000,000
~ Full Power: 750,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2.5): 1,875,000,000
~ After Piccolo's Energy Absorption: 780,000,000
~ After Human's Energy Absorption: 5,600,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 5,580,000,000
~ Weakened By #16: 4,000,000,000
~ 2nd Form: 11,200,000,000

Perfection Acquired

Vegeta
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 260,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 13,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan: 26,000,000,000
~ Losing Power Because Of Stamina Problems: 25,500,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 20,000,000,000
~ Fainaru Furasshu (*4): 80,000,000,000
~ After Fainaru Furasshu: 15,000,000,000

Trunks
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 240,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 12,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan: 24,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan Buffed Suppressed: 42,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan Buffed Full Power: 72,000,000,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Beginning RoSaT Training Base: 8,500,000
~ Super Saiyan: 425,000,000
~ During RoSaT Training Base: 48,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 2,400,000,000

Son Goku
~ During RoSaT Training Base: 50,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 2,500,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan: 5,000,000,000
~ Ascended Super Saiyan Buffed: 15,000,000,000

Cell
~ Initial: 11,200,000,000
~ Full Power: 16,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 11,500,000,000
~ Perfect Form: 25,000,000,000
~ Power up: 52,000,000,000
~ Weakened by Vegeta's Fainaru Furasshu: 44,000,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 40,000,000,000
~ Ready To Fight Again: 52,000,000,000
~ Buffed: 78,000,000,000

10 Days For The Cell Games

Son Gohan
~ After RoSaT Training Mastered Super Saiyan: 20,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ After RoSaT Training Mastered Super Saiyan: 22,000,000,000
~ 50% of Full Power: 50,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ After Second RoSaT Training Base: 1,400,000,000

Trunks
~ After Second RoSaT Training Base: 1,360,000,000

Piccolo
~ After RoSaT Training With Weights: 42,000,000,000

Dende: 110

Mr. Satan: 20

History of Trunks

Future Son Gohan
~ One year Ago Base: 4,400,000
~ Super Saiyan: 220,000,000
~ One Year Later Base: 6,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 300,000,000

Future Trunks
~ Base: 110,000
~ Super Saiyan: 5,500,000
~ 3 Years Later Base: 6,200,000
~ Super Saiyan: 310,000,000
~ After Zenkai Base: 6,400,000

Future #17
~ Less Than 50%: 260,000,000
~ Full Power: 650,000,000

Future #18: 600,000,000

Cell Games

Mr. Satan: 20

Son Goku
~ Base: 2,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan 50% of Full Power: 50,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 100,000,000,000
~ Shunkan Idō Kamehameha (*4): 400,000,000,000
~ After Shunkan Idō Kamehameha: 77,500,000,000
~ Renzoku Kamehameha (*2): 155,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 32,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Base: 2,700,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Full Power: 135,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,350,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2): 2,700,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 675,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*4): 2,700,000,000,000
~ Enraged Kamehameha (*8): 5,400,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 1,400,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 70,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Cell: 60,000,000,000
~ Fainaru Furasshu (*4): 240,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,360,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 68,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 42,000,000,000
~ Without Weights: 44,000,000,000

#16: 5,500,000,000

Krillin: 6,000,000

Tenshinhan: 5,500,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Cell
~ Warm Up: 52,000,000,000
~ Power up Against Son Goku: 107,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2): 214,000,000,000
~ Real Speed: 130,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku's Kamehameha: 120,000,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 116,000,000,000
~ Pāfekuto Bariā (*2): 232,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 105,000,000,000
~ Healed And Ready To Fight Son Gohan: 130,000,000,000
~ Effort Against Son Gohan: 142,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 750,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Gohan: 500,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*4): 2,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Gohan's Kamehameha: 334,000,000,000
~ After Regeneration: 330,000,000,000
~ Buffed: 990,000,000,000
~ 2nd Form: 16,000,000,000
~ Self-Destruct (*10): 160,000,000,000
~ After Zenkai: 1,275,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*4): 5,100,000,000,000

Cell juniors: 75,000,000,000

Saving the Future

Future Trunks
~ Base: 1,360,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 68,000,000,000
~ Base 3 Years Later: 1,600,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 80,000,000,000
~ Hīto Dōmu Atakku (*3): 240,000,000,000

Future #17: 650,000,000

Future #18: 600,000,000

Future Cell
~ Initial: 1,200,000,000
~ Full Power: 5,000,000,000

7 Years Later

Gohan
~ Base: 1,900,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 95,000,000,000

Videl: 22

Trunks
~ Initial: 1,550,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 77,500,000,000

Goten
~ Initial: 1,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 75,000,000,000

Krillin: 8,450,000

18: 900,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 57,950,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 59,950,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 2,300,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 115,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 2,900,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 145,000,000,000

Milk: 130

Dende: 120

South Kaiosama: 3,500

East Kaiosama: 3,500

West Kaiosama: 3,500

Dai Kaio: 100,000

The 25th Tenkaichi Budokai

Son Goten
~ Base: 1,600,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 40,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,650,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 41,250,000,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Krillin: 8,500,000

Punta: 12

East Kaioshin: 1,200,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 58,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 60,000,000,000

Videl
~ Initial: 24
~ Weakened By Spopovitch: 20
~ Weakened Even More By Spopovitch: 10

Spopovitch
~ Non Majin: 12
~ Majin: 25

Kibito: 250,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Base: 2,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 100,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,000,000,000,000

Yamu: 24

Yajirobe: 600

Yamcha: 3,500,000

The Warlock Babidi

Vegeta
~ Base: 2,400,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 120,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 1,200,000,000,000
~ Majin Base Not Shown: 3,000,000,000
~ Majin Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000
~ Majin Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Son Goku: 700,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 3,000,000,000
~ Suppressed Mastered Super Saiyan: 10,500,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Burst: 1,300,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Vegeta: 700,000,000,000

Gohan
~ Base: 2,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 100,000,000,000

Babidi: 5

Pui Pui: 1,400,000,000

Yakon: 2,800,000,000

Dabura: 104,000,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,650,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 41,250,000,000
~ Suppressed To Maximum Super Saiyan: 4,000,000,000
~ Biku Torī Kyanon (*1.25): 5,000,000,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Jewel: 13

Killer: 11

The Invincible Monster Boo

Gohan
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 100,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*2.5): 250,000,000,000
~ After Zenkai And Back To Base: 2,200,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 110,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Majin Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Fat Boo: 800,000,000,000
~ Fainaru Ekusupurojon (*10): 8,000,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 3,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 30,000,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 90,000,000,000,000

Goten
~ Base: 1,600,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 40,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 80,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 1,650,000,000
~ Suppressed Super Saiyan: 41,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 82,500,000,000

East Kaioshin
~ Initial: 1,500,000,000
~ Weakened By Fat Boo: 500

Chaozu: 450,000

Tenshinhan: 8,000,000

Dabura
~ Initial: 104,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Fat Boo: 80,000,000,000

Babidi
~ Initial: 5
~ Near Death: 1

Fat Boo
~ Initial: 140,000,000,000
~ Power up Against Dabura: 1,400,000,000,000
~ Second Power Up Against Vegeta: 1,800,000,000,000
~ Angurī Ekusupurōjon (*3): 5,200,000,000,000
~ Third Power Up Against Son Goku: 24,000,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 72,000,000,000,000

The Fusion Dance

Fat Gotenks: 1,000,000

Anorexic Gotenks: 1,000

Gotenks
~ Initial: 1,800,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 90,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ After Z Sword Training Base: 40,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 2,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 20,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Suppressed To Maximum: 500,000

Old Kaioshin: 500,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Fat Boo: 24,000,000,000,000

Evil Boo: 18,000,000,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Super Boo
~ Initial: 140,000,000,000,000

A New Evil Is Born

Son Goten
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 2,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 110,000,000,000

Trunks
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 2,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Full Power: 112,500,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 58,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 60,000,000,000

Gotenks
~ After RoSaT Training Base: 140,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 7,000,000,000,000,000
~ Sūpā Gōsuto KamiKaze Atakku (*4): 28,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 70,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 1,400,000,000,000,000,000

Gohan
~ During Old Kaioshin's Ritual: 1,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Maxium Potential Unlocked: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Super Boo (Gotenks Absorbed): 1,500,000,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened Even More By Super Boo (Gotenks Absorbed): 500,000,000,000,000,000

Tenshinhan
~ Initial: 8,000,000
~ Shin Kikōhō (*2200): 17,600,000,000

Kibitoshin: 750,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 30,000,000,000,000

Super Boo
~ Initial: 140,000,000,000,000
~ Ready To Fight: 12,500,000,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 1,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Ribenji Desu Bonba (*5): 6,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Gotenks Absorbed: 2,650,000,000,000,000,000
~ Piccolo Absorbed: 1,250,000,060,000,000,000
~ Gohan Absorbed: 3,250,000,000,000,000,000

The Ultimate Warrior

Vegetto
~ Base: 3,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Initial: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000

Super Boo
~ Gohan Absorbed: 3,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Sūpā Gōsuto KamiKaze Atakku (*4): 13,000,000,000,000,000,000
~ Piccolo Absorbed: 1,250,000,060,000,000,000
~ Back To Normal: 1,250,000,000,000,000,000
~ Buffed: 1,700,000,000,000,000,000

Kid Boo
~ Initial: 1,000,000,000,000
~ Full Power: 30,000,000,000,000
~ Puranetto Bāsuto (*6): 180,000,000,000,000

North KaioShin: 2,500,000,000

West KaioShin: 4,000,000,000

South KaioShin: 10,000,000,000

Grand Supreme KaioShin: 7,500,000,000

Boo's Defeat

Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 30,000,000,000,000
~ Losing Power Because Of Stamina Problems: 28,500,000,000,000
~ Stamina Strained And Back To Base: 500,000,000
~ Friends Genki Dama: 25,000,000,000,000
~ Earth Genki Dama: 250,000,000,000,000
~ Healed: 3,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 150,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 1,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Kid Boo And Back To Base: 800,000,000

Good Boo
~ Initial: 6,000,000,000,000
~ Weakened By Kid Boo: 3,500,000,000,000
~ Weakened Even More By Kid Boo: 200,000,000

Mr. Satan: 18

Kid Boo: 30,000,000,000,000

Avo And Cado

Gohan: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 64,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 66,000,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Krillin: 9,000,000

Tenshinhan: 8,500,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Chaozu: 500,000

Yajirobe: 575

Dende: 130

Milk: 128

Videl: 25

Mr. Satan: 17

Tarble: 400,000

Goten
~ Supressed: 193,132
~ Full Power: 2,800,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 140,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Suppressed: 198,632
~ Full Power: 2,850,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 142,500,000,000

Fat Gotenks: 10,000,000

Gotenks
~ Base: 180,000,000,000,000
~ Sūpā Gōsuto KamiKaze Atakku (*4): 720,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 9,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 5,600,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 280,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 2,800,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Suppressed: 250,000
~ Full Power: 6,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 300,000,000,000,000
~ Kamehameha (*3): 900,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 3,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 Not Shown: 60,000,000,000,000,000

Avo: 550,000

Cado: 550,000

Aka
~ Initial: 55,000,000,000,000
~ Supā Wahahanoha (*2.5): 137,500,000,000,000
~ Faiyā Wahahanoha (*3): 165,000,000,000,000

The God of Destruction Bills

*************ESTIMATES!!***************************

Bills: 380,000,000,000,000,000,000

Wiss: 540,000,000,000,000,000,000

Goku
~ Initial: 12,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 625,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 6,250,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3: 125,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan God: 375,000,000,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000

Gotenks
~ Base: 300,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 15,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 12,000,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan: 600,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000,000,000
~ Enraged Super Saiyan 2: 6,000,000,000,000,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Initial: 3,550,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 177,500,000,000

Goten
~ Initial: 3,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan: 175,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 70,000,000,000
~ Without Weights: 72,000,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Krillin: 11,000,000

Tenshinhan: 10,500,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Chaozu: 575,000

Dende: 160

Milk: 124

Videl: 27

Mr. Satan: 16

Ten Years Later Farewell Dragon World

Mr. Satan: 14

Videl: 30

Milk: 118

Dende: 200

Yajirobe: 450

Chaozu: 700,000

Yamcha: 3,500,000

Tenshinhan: 12,000,000

Krillin: 12,500,000

Bra: 100,000,000

#18: 900,000,000

Piccolo
~ With Weights: 82,000,000,000
~ Without Weights Not Shown: 84,000,000,000

Son Gohan: 2,000,000,000,000,000,000

Nok: 10

Otokosuki: 12

Captain Chicken: 12

Kirano: 25

Son Goten
~ Base: 5,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 250,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Base: 5,050,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Not Shown: 252,500,000,000

Good Boo: 6,000,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Base: 24,000,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 1,200,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 12,000,000,000,000,000

Pan: 500,000,000

Mokekko: 14

Oob
~ Initial: 20
~ Enraged: 24,500,000,000,000
~ Rage Burst: 30,000,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ Base: 25,000,000,000,000
~ Mastered Super Saiyan Not Shown: 1,250,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 Not Shown: 12,500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 Not Shown: 250,000,000,000,000,000

************************

Multipliers

SSJ: 50 times base
USSJ: 2 times SSJ
USSJ2: 3 times USSJ
MSSJ: 50 times base
SSJ2: 10 times MSJ/SSJ
SSJ3: 20 times SSJ2
SSJG: 3,000 times SSJ3

*************************

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 10:19 am

What? I have all the numbers fron the manga....

What numbers do you think are high?

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:28 am

Those numbers or multipliers weren't given by AT or the manga, in any case they don't make sense. Raditz was said to rival the Saibamen, a 1.25x difference is not rivaling (that's an even bigger difference than Vegeta vs Dodoria LOL). Same with Nappa, Goku implied that their fight was going to last quite a while if he didn't used Kaiōken, those just don't work. And while they seem bloated (trust me compared to others I see, they are not that bloated) that's what the manga implies with the gaps, mostly IPC and Piccolos Light Grenade. That instance bloats everything. Ah and Gotenks, we must not forget Gotenks.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 6:13 pm

I get it, you guys are talking about those power levels for the Daizenshuu right? lol, sorry I should have been more specific, I don't care for them or used them. The are inaccurate. I only take into account the manga or AT word (hence the constant x50 multiplier for SSJ).

As for the the name of the attacks, I grew up with the Latin America dub, the were no Special Beam Cannons or Spirit Bombs, they had the correct translation, I just thought they looked cool and left them in Japanese.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Thu Mar 21, 2013 11:27 pm

I'm sorry but if it's not in the manga or is a direct quote from AT, its of no value for me. 4000 for Nappa just doesn't work, it's almost the same gap than SSJ Goku and %50 Freeza and Freeza got owned in seconds. Dodoria's gap is no more than a 1.2x gap and was one shotted. He needs to be at 7700+ to make that quote from Goku work. Raditz can't also be any higher than 1250, Gohan at 1,307 owned him.

Can you please provide the direct quote from AT that says Raditz is at 1,500?

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 3:38 am

Like it or not Nappa and Vegeta both powered up, these instances can't be ignore:

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 8&page=172

Piccolo his amazed how much Nappa powered up thinking previously that he could not get that strong.

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... +20&page=4

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... +20&page=5

That's clearly a power up, why would Goku be amazed then?.

Hell even Piccolo didn't know Vegeta was stronger than Nappa:

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 19&page=35

Did he forgot to sense Ki?

Also this:

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 9&page=132

Is Goku a liar then? Why use Kaioken if hes twice as fast? We already have an example of a fight with one opponent being 2x the other (50% Freeza vs SSJ Goku) can you honestly think Goku's fight with that Freeza will last FOREVER? He was crusing him, bad. Even then Vegeta told Nappa to calm down and fight, Vegeta doesnt know Nappa's PL now? Sorry but no dice, it's a direct power statement from the manga, Nappa =< Goku.

A 1.25X gap can't work (120 vs 150), it's just too close to the 1.33x gap Vegeta had on Cui. Theres also nothing wrong with the fight with Dodoria. Another example is Monster Zarbon vs Vegeta, most put Zarbon in the 28K range, that's a 1.18-1.16X gap and he totally trashed Vegeta. Sorry but no, I might accept that number (120) but after it's stated Freeza is getting weaker that Goku decides to stop the fight, no way its at the beginning of the fight.

A powerfull character can be hit by a weaker one for example Freeza might have been caught off guard by Piccolo but he was never stated to be weakened. Raditz was, hence Gohan (enraged) > Raditz.

When exactly was Nappa in danger of dying against Piccolo and Co.? Maybe with the Kienzan but that's it.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 1:24 pm

So no quote then. Good to know.

EDIT: also, give me one, one example in the manga when a fighter gets weakened by a weaker fighter to the point they can't even fend off a character that was 1/3 off him.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 8:54 pm

.....?

Krillin did not hurt Vegeta... It was all Goku and Gohan.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:08 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:You didn't say that he had to be able to fend off the one who hurt him. Krillin was less than a 10th of Vegeta's strength, and Vegeta was weakened to the point where he was helpless by fighters weaker than him.

But Vegeta was not weakened but a weaker fighter... It's not the same scenario as Raditz.

And no sorry but if AT never said his power level in an interview or something then no dice.

Recoome is the same as Nappa, they were never stated to get weaker. Recoome even raped Vegeta after he started to attack.

ZombieVito · Post by **ZombieVito** » Sat Mar 23, 2013 9:18 pm

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
Zombie wrote:
Kamiccolo9 wrote:You didn't say that he had to be able to fend off the one who hurt him. Krillin was less than a 10th of Vegeta's strength, and Vegeta was weakened to the point where he was helpless by fighters weaker than him.
But Vegeta was not weakened but a weaker fighter... It's not the same scenario as Raditz.

And no sorry but if AT never said his power level in an interview or something then no dice.

Recoome is the same as Nappa, they were never stated to get weaker. Recoome even raped Vegeta after he started to attack.
We know that Vegeta's power level on Earth was 18,000. On Namek, he fights Cui, who states that his power level was equal to Vegeta's before his trip to Earth, and that it was 18,000. Goku tops out at " Over 8,000" without using the Kaioken, and obviously, Gohan, Krillin, and Yajorobe are weaker than him. So, using only information that's in the manga, you have accurate views of the power levels from that fight.

Yes and still no weaker fighter has ever weakened a stronger one with one hit. It's makes zero sense for Raditz to be 1500. If you accept that gap then Monster Zarbon rivaled Vegeta but yet trashed him. That's not rivaling.

Edit: very interesting note indeed, they needed the dragon radar to find him but if I remember correctly they did felt his Ki, mm still Vegeta knows Goku's power level and he knows Nappa's, he still said Nappa could beat him if he calmed down. That would be imposible if he was at 4000.

Kanzenshuu

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