Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[ZombieVito]

I hate to cherry pick with the manga, those gaps were stated. Can't really be debated.

[ZombieVito]

Those attacks were amplified.... Which means they were stronger while doing them. Gohan didn't used a Ki blast with Raditz.

[ZombieVito]

I don't know about that (I haven't even seen the numbers they gave them in there) but the manga states they are under 24K, I just analyze their respective fights and give a number base on their performance, 20K for Dodoria and 22K for Zarbon.

[ZombieVito]

I don't know about that (I haven't even seen the numbers they gave them in there) but the manga states they are under 24K, I just analyze their respective fights and give a number base on their performance, 20K for Dodoria and 22K for Zarbon.

Well, if you want to use that logic, how do you figure that Dodoria did any better than Kui? Neither managed to even hit Vegeta. Dodoria could be anywhere from 18,001-23,998.

Simple really:









Vegeta used more effort to fight/kill Dodoria (Look at the veins on his head), hence Dodoria's gap << Cui's gap.

[ZombieVito]

I don't know about that (I haven't even seen the numbers they gave them in there) but the manga states they are under 24K, I just analyze their respective fights and give a number base on their performance, 20K for Dodoria and 22K for Zarbon.

Well, if you want to use that logic, how do you figure that Dodoria did any better than Kui? Neither managed to even hit Vegeta. Dodoria could be anywhere from 18,001-23,998.

Simple really:









Vegeta used more effort to fight/kill Dodoria (look at the veins on his head), hence Dodoria's gap << Cui's gap.

[ZombieVito]

Vegeta still put more effort in that blast to kill him than Cui's.

[ZombieVito]

I use this, made from someone from shinden:

Fighter A Fighter B Gap
100 101-104 Fighters are rivals with B having the unnoticeable advantage, skill important
100 105-109 Fighters fight fairly evenly, B has a noticeable advantage, skill important
100 110-113 B has a clear upperhand against A, skill becomes less relevant
100 114-116 Barring techniques or hax, B overwhelms A
100 117-121 B stomps A
100 122-133+ B can toy with A at this point
100 150+ A cannot even see B; B won

And well Dodoria is Freeza's bodyguard/captain, he has to have a clear advantage against Cui. 20/18= 1.111, that's enough to beat him. But I can totally accept him at 21K.

[ZombieVito]

Haha, yes. My fav character along with Goku and Vegeta.

Back on topic, the only way Krillin was able to injured Vegeta was because he suppressed his power to the mere minimum. Dodoria can't do it. But hell 22K can still work I guess.

[ZombieVito]

You still don't get it, Piccolo did blew Freeza away (many instances like this happen later) but Freeza was NOT weakened. I'm still waiting for an example for that. Gohan has to be > to weakened Raditz, which puts him at 1200+ but lower than 1307, thus making 1500 incorrect. And again Goku stated the fight will take forever (now Goku can't sense Ki?), a fight with one opponent is 2x the other will not last forever, that statement is never contradicted, it's a fact.

[ZombieVito]

Chapter: 303 (DBZ 109), P11.1-2
Vegeta: “When we Saiyans revive from the brink of death, our strength increases! So go ahead and half-kill me! There’s no effect if I try to kill myself! You do it! Quickly! Freeza is about to perform his final transformation!”
Kuririn: “I-I could half-kill you with my power…”
Vegeta: “Don’t worry…I’ll lower my battle power to its limit…! It’s fortunate that the Namekian brat who can instantly heal people is here…”

Makes it pretty clear really.

This implies you can take minimal damage that isn't even worth mentioning with an amplified Ki blast:

Chapter: 275 (DBZ 81), P12.4
Context: Vegeta attacked Recoom all out, but it had little effect.
Gohan: “H-he hardly took any damage…”

Context: after Cell is hit by Piccolo’s powerful ki blast
No.18: “He did it!”
No.16: “No, he didn’t. [Cell] has hardly taken any damage.”

But like I said those were Ki blasts and Gohan just headbutted him and:

Chapter: 204 (DBZ 10), P12.1-2
Vegeta: “At any rate, the battle power of Kakarot’s son is unusually high, even by the standards of Saiyan children.”
Nappa: “Maybe his reading was wrong.”
Vegeta: “No, it wasn’t wrong. Raditz really took a large amount of damage from that brat’s attack. It seems that mixing Saiyan and Earthling blood begets a powerful hybrid.”

Completely trashed Raditz he couldn't fend off a 400 something fighter. And that fighter was weakened.

[ZombieVito]

Yeah I agree but when one is told his list can't even be taken seriously for not following "official" numbers, it strikes a nerve. You guys convinced me to not trash the Daiz that much but I guess I could use the PL that make sense for me. Where can I find a full list? Or is those images from the Wiki the only ones?

[ZombieVito]

Ah ok. I can wait, knowing me I will only had like 4.

[ZombieVito]

I actually like him at 300 million, a bit weaker than SSJ Future Trunks (320 million). Yadart Goku in SSJ will demolish him (400 million).

[ZombieVito]

Shouldn't Tired MSSJ Goku be more weaker? hes too close to Piccolo. Also Cell stated USSJ2 Trunks surpassed him by a huge margin, they can't be equal.

[ZombieVito]

Chapter: 387 (DBZ 193), P1.3, P2.1-3
Context: as Trunks uses his Super Saiyan Grade III power
Trunks: “What you’re about to see now…is my true power!!!”
Cell: “I see…It truly is magnificent power…You easily surpass me…But you can’t win against me like that…Absolutely not…”

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 33&page=17

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 33&page=18

[ZombieVito]

That why I have Piccolo at 2,000 and Nappa at 3000 (there's no way Gohan's Masenko will make Nappa's hand shake like that at 4,000).

[ZombieVito]

I will put Vegeta base on your numbers at 30,000,000,000. He did said he would be Goku soon.

[ZombieVito]

Piccolo to even ask if he stood a chance against Perfect Cell put him way over USSJ Vegeta.

[ZombieVito]

Can anyone explain to me how can Vegeta at 250,000 do this?

http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 25&page=96

At 530K he should kill all of them, Freeza didn't even need to transform if Vegeta was at that level, which brings me to my next point: how the hell did Vegeta thought a guy with 75K and a kid with 100K be of any help to fight Freeza? makes no damn sense.

[ZombieVito]

Freeza powered up, he had no reason to not go all out there.

He even got surprised Vegeta managed to catch his attack: http://view.thespectrum.net/series/drag ... 25&page=95

Vegeta said he will transform regardless, that statement wasn't contradicted. That 250K makes no sense.

I only seen one source saying Piccolo didn't asked (Herms), while:

Piccolo: How about being candid with me? I may have become stronger, but it still won't be of any use against Cell, right?
Goku: Nope. It's no use, all right.
Piccolo: You really did put it candidly.

and this:



Sorry but I'm going with the official translations.