Just to be clear, I don't go by base GT Goku > SS3 Z Goku.
But that is more than proven.
Because he accepts Z bullshit but not GT bullshit.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Because he accepts Z bullshit but not GT bullshit.
OK, what's wrong with you? Stop bringing your rage from other debates. We are not fighting, and we are not enemies. We are fellow forum members, and we should be civil to each other.
I don't accept bullshit that can't have a logical explanation IMO. Goku getting over x400 stronger in base after teaching a little kid how to fight for 5 years just to have a big fight in the end doesn't make any sense to me. If he had gotten the Ultimate power-up, he wouldn't be able to transform, and if he had kept the power of Super Saiyan God from BoG, the difference between his transformations would be insignificant (and maybe even non-existent). Piccolo getting nearly x100 stronger after 5 years makes sense IMO, because he had just merged with another charismatic Namekian, which made his dormant power skyrocket, and he sparred for 3 years with a Super Saiyan, which made his power to skyrocket.
I have an explanation that makes sense in my head for Piccolo (or anything else). Do you have a logical explanation for GT Goku?
Why not. Trust try harder and I'm sure you can explain it too.
Simple training gains. That's all you need to explain it. It's already been demonstrated that fighting an opponent that's stronger than you brings huge gains. So logically the same can be done for Goku. If we can have Vegeta magically get stronger because he was really angry, I don't see a problem with Base Goku GT>SSJ3 Goku. Just like Vegeta, that's just how it works. You wanna not include it in, that's fine. But your list gets rid of what is stated and is automatically wrong.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Thing is, Goku's gains are far from doubling his power after 17 years of hard training, and for those 5 year with Oob, they weren't sparring all the time. He was teaching him how to fight, so that they could fight in the very end.
In your opinion. Dragon Ball does this all the time. Goku could easily get a staggering increase from someone who is SSJ3 level. Piccolo already did it and Goku is far more talented. Vegeta breaks logic when he makes his SSJ2 form stronger than his SSJ3 forms power. Amplification isn't so simple or else guys like Freeza and Jr should have died after the amplified attacks they went through.
Though to me amplifications are far more bullshit than any training gains.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
But Goku isn't merged with anyone, and he has reached his peak as well. And Goku & Piccolo seem to be equally talented, which is why they were rivals.
I don'tthink merging had anything to do with Piccolo's massive gains. I believe it was just training with an SSJ that did that.
Makes more sense to me than GT Goku. It has a logical (IMO) explanation, while Goku having such gains isn't logical, nor is explained.
I think just training with a really powerful opponent is enough while magical amplication that's never been that ridiculous (excluding Gohan rage boosts) is ludicrous
Of course it's not simple, Vegeta managed to accidentally do this after years of extreme training.
And IMO it doesn't make sense for someone to amplify their power beyond SSJ3 like that as the only thing remotely close is Gohan's rage boost which has been shown since the beginning. Vegeta's boost is random and completely out of nowhere.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:OK, let's just agree that we disagree here as well. Arguing about opinions won't get us anywhere.
To end all this, I don't consider the anime (fillers, movies, GT, OVA, Specials) as a reliable source for feats & power statements. They have made Mutaito stronger than Mutaito, Oozaru Vegeta stronger than SS4 Goku, and SS3 Goku stronger than Gohan Boo. And no, these are not typos. They are inconsistencies in the anime, which I won't follow.
Alright. I'll apologize for my outburst as well. I'm also at fault for being selective at times.
Rocketman wrote:So why didn't Gohan get super-mega strong?
Probably because he wasn't training as seriously and time wasn't focused on him as much. In the ROSAT the training was dedicated to him and even in the future when he trained seriously on his own he didn't get super strong. But that's my theory as Gohan isn't even noteworthy at this point.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kinda like how some don't believe in the GT issue. I personally don't believe in the explanation BOG gave for Vegeta.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Pantalones wrote:Basically seems like a reworking of the Dragonball levels to account for the huge power gaps that seem to exist in-story which don't actually show up in the official levels (Piccolo "not even using half his power" for example; with the official levels that statement cannot be literally true), so everything's not cramped so tightly toward the low end just to fit everyone below those beginning-of-DBZ 400-something levels for Goku and Piccolo. That's always been a problem with the Dragonball official levels, the story was clearly not written with numerical Freeza-scouter-style power levels in mind and the numbers that do exist were definitely made up long after the fact.
Just think of it as a different scale than Freeza's scouters that happens to have "5" as a shared measurement (like how -40 in both Celsius and Fahrenheit is the same temperature, but everything else is different between the two scales.)
Suddenly jumping up from low hundreds-of-thousands to the multiple-millions in the time between Piccolo and Piccolo Jr. seems like a bit of a stretch, but... eh.
Pretty much what you said. The suggestions in Dragon Ball would make their power levels a lot higher. Makes me wonder if I should go with the jump scan that had Goku's full power be equal to his Kamehameha. That way there would be more room for gaps.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I believe emotions can get in the way of the ability to sense ki. Piccolo thought Cell killed Gohan even though Goku pointed out Gohan was fine and that his ki hadn't dropped at all.
Compared to Beerus, God of Destruction, how strong is [Super Saiyan] God?
I suppose if Beerus’ strength is a 10, [Super Saiyan] God would be right about 6. Only, Saiyans rapidly increase in strength as they fight against strong opponents, so the longer they fought, the more that gap would shrink, and it might even be possible for them to eventually turn the tables. Incidentally, I guess Whis would be about a 15.
Also SSJ God may be a strict multiplier as it apparently is different for everyone
Is it possible that other Saiyans will be able to become [Super Saiyan] God in the future?
Of course. However, strength will vary depending on the battle power of the Saiyan who becomes [Super Saiyan] God.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Gogeta8001 wrote:So SSJ Goku = SSJG Goku after he absorbed the SSJG powers?
Wouldn't that make him the strongest unfused character at EoZ? It was established already that Gohan was the strongest unfused character.
It's not really established Gohan was the strongest unfused character at the end, but a lot of people including myself believe that. Toriyama never made a statement on it as some fans like to claim he did. If you incorporate BOG's then even still Whis is the strongest unfused character.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Kaboom wrote:Anyway, about this new Battle of Gods stuff... Nice to know roughly where Whis, Beerus, and God-Goku all stand compared to each other. What I admit I don't like though is Goku keeping the god-power to access whenever he wants. Like I've said before, it just seems to cheapen everything. I guess the fact that SSJ God's power depends on the power of the person using it, meaning it's essentially a "multiplier" of some sort after all like the other Super Saiyan transformations, helps make that a little better though. It means that even though Goku's been carried ahead into a new realm of power, he'll still need to actually work to progress within that realm.
It does really take something away from the ending of the manga, though. Hard to believe Goku's excited about someone on Pure Boo's level of power if he can drop someone that strong with a finger-flick if he wanted to. As "close to canon" as Battle of Gods is, I suppose in some ways still counting it as an alternate universe might be a good idea.
This is my whole problem with him keeping that power. It greatly conflicts with the ending. It also makes Oob extremely pointless and gives everyone access to an easy power boost. I can see everyone get it now, because why not have several SSJ Gods.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Not to mention the idea of it being a multiplier makes the whole movie essentially PIS, since they could've murderstomped Beers and Whis if they had given this to Gohan or Gotenks.
Pretty much. Though giving it to Gotenks is kind of impossible as they need 6 Saiyans.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:I can see everyone get it now, because why not have several SSJ Gods.
Everyone can get Super Saiyan God for 7 minutes, but not everyone can absorb its power to make it permanent like Goku did. I can see Vegeta succeeding doing so, but what about Gohan, Goten, Pan, Trunks, and Bra?
Exuding Bra and maybe Pan, the kids have shown themselves to be super prodigies. When they put their minds to something they can easily accomplish what the adults do. So I can easily see it happening for everyone else. Goku did it by accident, I can see that easily happen for everyone else.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Goten & Trunks are very talented, but Gohan hasn't shown any talent. His dormant power was the only special thing for him.
Yeah I see Goten and Trunks possibly doing better as they adapt to things much quicker than Gohan does. Gohan would probably have the hardest time. Then again Goku has no idea how he did it so perhaps anyone of them can do it with no problems either.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
I'll point this out again. "Why bother have them saying his base power is below Freeza if it weren't true?" Why bother with the statement? Captain Ginyu was able to get a pretty good estimate for Goku, so I think Birus could do better. Also nobody argues with this statement. Nobody.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:I'll point this out again. "Why bother have them saying his base power is below Freeza if it weren't true?" Why bother with the statement? Captain Ginyu was able to get a pretty good estimate for Goku, so I think Birus could do better. Also nobody argues with this statement. Nobody.
I just watched the first part of the movie right now.
As you can see from the movie, Kaio is scared out of his mind when he sees Billis. He most likely said that to appease him. Not to mention that Kaio is the same person that suggests that it would be a good idea for Goku to hide in his house, as if Billis is a clueless moron.
And as for Billis's statement, all he did was check out Goku's muscle mass. He seems to be making that statement based on appearence rather than actual power.
Then again, BoG is a plot ridden movie despite it being "canon". I'll take the evidence we have in the manga over what was said in that movie any day.
Or he could be checking out Goku's body as Goku's ki wasn't as big as Freeza's, so maybe his body had something special about it. Ginyu even thought Goku may be faster then him even before Goku use Kaioken. Ginyu also was really close to guessing Goku's base power. Your telling me the God of destruction can't get a better guesstimate. They make the statement, nobody argues with it, and at no point is there a counter statement, it's pure fact.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:28 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Gogeta8001 wrote:Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.
The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong. What's the point of even making it if it was wrong. Birus should be able to tell ki better than Captain Ginyu who can't even sense ki.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Mon Oct 21, 2013 11:33 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Gogeta8001 wrote:Kaio doesn't want to argue against him due to being scared out of his mind and Goku doesn't want to say anything so he can hear what he has to say next. Billis drops the subject quickly and brings up the SSJG topic shortly after.
The movie would not bother bringing up the statement if it was wrong.
And how would you know that? They wanted to hype SSJ so it wouldn't suprise me if it was.
I know that because then the line is fucking pointless as it means nothing. They easily could have said your stronger than Freeza, but still nothing special, but I hear you power up to SSJ to become more powerful.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Ginyu thought Goku may already be faster than him even though he esitimated his power level was at 85,000 compared to his 120,000. Birus probably thought Goku's body may make up for it. If Ginyu can predict Goku power, then Birus can do it better.
Anyone who says this statement is wrong is in denial. There is no reason to think it is wrong. There is no reason to bring it up. You could easily have written in that Goku may be stronger than Freeza in base and is still unimpressive.
He's all yours Ozaru.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
dbzfan7 wrote:Ginyu thought Goku may already be faster than him even though he esitimated his power level was at 85,000 compared to his 120,000. Birus probably thought Goku's body may make up for it. If Ginyu can predict Goku power, then Birus can do it better.
Anyone who says this statement is wrong is in denial. There is no reason to think it is wrong. There is no reason to bring it up. You could easily have written in that Goku may be stronger than Freeza in base and is still unimpressive.
He's all yours Ozaru.
What's really underwhelming is that you think your proving a point by playing the "denial card".
I just listed possible explanations as to why Billis would make that statement. And after all, this third rate movie doesn't indvalidate what was said in the manga. You guys can live with this Freeza > Base Saiyans mentallity all you want even though the manga says otherwise http://dbzf.co.uk/single/?p=8515914&t=8371634
Don't take it from me though, i'm in denial. Excuse me now while I take my medication.
Yep it is denial. Lines in movies can easily be re-written. You take what's stated at face value. Anything else is just trying weasel away from a statement.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
TheMightyOzaru wrote:Any credibility that guy had went out the window when he claimed base Goku > Kaioshin . Kaioshin flat out states that he's only surpassed by the SSJs.
I know right Hell Kibito in the Daizenshuu is already stated to be able to give Base Gohan a really tough fight as long as he doesn't use SSJ. Kaioshin is much stronger than him. Kaioshin is described as far superior to Piccolo in power. If Base Saiyans were so powerful then why would Kibito be compared to near Gohan base and Kaioshin be compared to Piccolo. If Base Saiyans were stronger then that means Kibito>Kaioshin which isn't true.
Last edited by dbzfan7 on Tue Oct 22, 2013 12:28 am, edited 2 times in total.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
. Kaioshin flat out states that he's only surpassed by the SSJs.