Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Sun Apr 09, 2017 4:37 pm

Noah wrote:Do you guys have a multiplier to Golden Oozaru? Probably higher than SSJ3 isn't?
Well, GT isn't really something I've looked into, but I have Golden Oozaru = SSJ1 Oozaru = x50*10 = x500. So yeah, it is higher than SSJ3.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Sat Jun 23, 2018 11:48 am

Bullza wrote:The whole show is a complete mess for the power scaling. It's probably best I don't even bother because there's no making sense of it at all.

It actually is worse than Super after all.
I'm just gonna jump in here and say that it's actually been pretty entertaining/interesting to see you go through GT and attempt to make sense of everything. I never rewatch GT, so I'm unable to help you out, though.
What's the straw breaking the camel's back in this case? I'm assuming you didn't get to the dragons, since I don't see any mention of them.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Fri Aug 10, 2018 7:58 pm

Noah wrote:Is GT Pan stronger than Namek Freeza?
I am in no way an expert on anything GT-related, but wouldn't she have to be? I seem to recall there being some feats and statements during the space adventure that add up to force her to be stronger than 100 % Namek Frieza. Though I'm not entirely sure.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Sun Nov 04, 2018 7:54 pm

Noah wrote:Going by hypothetical multipliers and transformations, would be a Super Saiyan 7 strong enough as SSJB + KKx20?
...I can't tell if this is a serious question. What do you mean by "Super Saiyan 7"? Just any fan-made "SS7" transformation in existence? There's no way to scale something like that, because one guy's "SS7" could have a multiplier a million times larger than another guy's "SS7", so it'd come down to whatever fanfic you'd prefer to use.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Sun Nov 04, 2018 8:29 pm

Noah wrote:
Alruneia wrote:...I can't tell if this is a serious question. What do you mean by "Super Saiyan 7"? Just any fan-made "SS7" transformation in existence? There's no way to scale something like that, because one guy's "SS7" could have a multiplier a million times larger than another guy's "SS7", so it'd come down to whatever fanfic you'd prefer to use.
Yes it is... If I remember correctly the scale is somewhat like this:

SSJ = 50x, SSJ2 = 100x, SSJ3 = 400x and SSJ4 = 1000x? Going by that scale, how strong would be a SSJ7 considering some people believes that SSJ God is around 6000x?
Wasn't it stated in some guidebook that SS4 is just Golden Great Ape in a more manageable form (which would make it x500 or so)? In any case, my point was that SS4 doesn't really scale cleanly with the other SS forms as it's achieved through different means (the whole Great Ape thing) than them, and forms above SS4 could easily also require other different means (and particularly means that vary from writer to writer), making it difficult to properly scale them with "lower" forms. (SSG also doesn't really scale cleanly.) "SS5" is usually a direct power-up from SS4 without much trickery, in my experience, which should be fine for scaling, but there's not much of a "consensus" beyond that form, so there's really no way to give a good answer.
But... I guess I can try, using the scale you provided. I'm just gonna extend the pattern I'm seeing.
SS1 = Base x50
SS2 = SS1 x2
SS3 = SS2 x4
SS4 = SS3 x2.5
SS5 = SS4 x5
SS6 = SS5 x3
SS7 = SS6 x6
Multiply it all together, and you get SS7 = Base x90000. In this scenario, I'd say Blue Kaioken x20 wins, though perhaps it'd be somewhat close.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Tue Jul 30, 2019 9:03 am

ahill1 wrote: Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:50 pm What are your guys' estimations for the base Saiyajins in the Super, Toyotaro's manga? Current base Saiyajins. I think this is one topic that a lot of people don't see eye to eye on.
I'd say Goku and Vegeta are a bit stronger now than in the Buu arc, but that's just a bit. As other people have said, their main power increases come from the god forms, rather than increasing their base strength.
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Mon Dec 23, 2019 9:50 am

Grand Marshal 1 wrote: Mon Dec 23, 2019 8:41 am Numbers become obsolete at some point am I right? Lol
Numerical power levels were pretty much made to be wrong. Even in the Raditz fight, the first time we see them, they're shown to be unreliable multiple times (Goku, Piccolo and Gohan's power levels all vary). The numbers continue to be generally misleading all the way up to Future Trunks' measurement of 5. Hell, Vegeta even directly says "we saiyans can't be reduced to numbers" to 19. Dragon Ball has some pretty analytical fans, though, who like putting numbers to things even if they're not meant to.
Anyway, since it's implied that BoG Goku wouldn't be able to beat Frieza in his base form, I'd dial those numbers down a bit. Not that that isn't a whole debate, though...
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Re: Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

Post by Alruneia » Thu Jan 23, 2020 7:15 pm

Mad Swami wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 6:49 pm
Mireya wrote: Thu Jan 23, 2020 10:51 am <snip>
They start fairly good but I think they get way out of hand by the end. I don't think anyone in Cell saga should have anything near 10 billion that's crazy high
I'm inclined to agree. It's been a few years since I made my own numbers for post-Frieza Dragon Ball, so they're not exactly the best numbers out there, but it was never necessary for me to go above 10 billion until I got pretty far into the Buu arc (Super Saiyan 3 Goku etc.).
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sun Feb 28, 2016 2:17 pm

I never got to reply to this post before the thread was locked, so I would like to reply here if that is okay.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Vegeta only reminded him with their ability to hide there battles power right after the line where Nappa shitted himself.
Vegeta didn't remind Nappa, he thought it to himself. And even if he did say it to Nappa, why would that mean Nappa didn't already expect 5,000 to not be Son Goku's max? He himself saw that the Z-fighters hide their power and had it explicitly said to him by Vegeta before. It's not something new to him.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:And there's nothing in the line i posted above that suggested that Vegeta is also scared of Goku.
His reaction was really not that different from Nappa's.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Heck,he even smiled when Goku arrived.
So did Nappa.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sun Feb 28, 2016 5:01 pm

DanielSSJ wrote:Here's my explanation for the whole "Nappa can't be 4,000 for X reason" debacle. Nappa flat out doesn't believe Goku is 5,000 (or 8,000 for that matter) whereas Vegeta is skeptical, but isn't ruling out the possibility. Nappa, in denial, refuses to accept that Goku is stronger than him, and Vegeta is letting him fight Goku in order to gauge his strength. Maybe Vegeta hoped that Nappa might wear Goku out a bit before he fought him? I'm with Kaboom in that power gaps don't mean anything, other that saying fighter A is stronger than fighter B.
Just to clarify, I'm not claiming that Nappa can't be at 4,000, and I'm not claiming that power gaps are necessarily consistent or mean anything. I'm only offering a different view to the common argument of "Nappa was scared of 5,000 Goku so he has to be weaker!"

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Tue Mar 01, 2016 12:58 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:- You seem to act like Nappa is a smart dude.
I never claimed that Nappa was "a smart dude." I only claimed that he had seen the Earthlings hide their true battle powers before and that the concept wasn't exactly new to him by the time he was told of Son Goku's 5,000 battle power.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:This is the same guy who didn't even know the attack potency of Kienzan and almost got killed by it.
Difference being: Nappa knows about the Earthlings hiding their true power. There's nothing to say that Nappa would have any experience with an attack like the Kienzan.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:Heck,even after knowing that the earthlings can change their ki at will.He was still dumb enough to think that the surpressed PL of Piccolo,Gohan and Kuririnis there full power.
Chapter: 214 (DBZ 20), P4.3-5
Nappa: “981... 1,220... 1,083... Idiots! Do you really plan on defying us with that level of battle power...?!"
Nappa said that before Vegeta told him that the Earthlings hide their true power, not after.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:- How does that make the reaction the same as Nappa ? That line just pointed out that Vegeta is aware that the earthlings may have a chance to beat them when Goku arrived.In Nappa's case he was scared of Goku because of his Power.
The reaction is similar because both express shock and concern at Son Goku's power. Even later when Goku is powering up to 8,000, Vegeta has the same shocked/worried expression that Nappa did when he heard that Goku's approaching battle power was 5,000.
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:- And Goku debunked that smile.That is a bragging/nervous smile,not a confident one like Vegeta has.
Nappa doesn't seem nervous at all in the scan I posted. And what do you mean by Goku "debunked" that smile? Do you mean that he later powered up and easily defeated Nappa thus contradicting Nappa's confidence? Because by the same logic, I can say that Goku "debunked" Vegeta's confidence when he beat him up with Kaioken x3.
DanielSSJ wrote:On to other business, how strong do you guys think Dabra is? I've seen him placed as high as above Perfect Cell or as low as being under Super Saiyan Gohan. Go ahead, i want to see your opinions.
Marginally weaker than SS2 Son Gohan. Gohan forced Dabra to abandon hand-to-hand combat and resort to magic just to stay competitive. Even when he landed a clean shot on Gohan, Dabra failed to inflict any visual damage. Not only that, but Gohan also overpowered Dabra at quarters when he was able to break Dabra's sword.

Around Perfect Cell's tier sounds good to me. This is of course going by the belief that Son Gohan was a Super Saiyan 2 when fighting Dabra.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Tue Mar 08, 2016 9:17 pm

Just to clarify, yes, the Potara are stated to be stronger than Fusion.
Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P6.2-6 wrote:Context: Elder Kaioshin gives the Potara to Goku
Elder Kaioshin: “Here! Put this Potara on your left ear! [ ] Put the other one on Gohan’s ear. Just by doing that, you two will be able to merge together! Like with Fusion.”
Goku: “Huh! Re-really!?”
Elder Kaioshin: “Of course. And what’s more, the effect is greater than with Fusion! This has been the trump card treasure of the Kaioshins since long ago.”
"Effect" here refers to power. Why isn't it referring to time you ask? Because Old Kaioshin notes that here:
Chapter: 501 (DBZ 307), P11.6 wrote:Context: Goku asks how long Potara-based fusion lasts
Elder Kaioshin: "The Potara don't have such a weakness. It's eternal! You'll never return to normal again!"
The wording here doesn't make it sound as though he is repeating something he just said. And for further reinforcement:
Chapter: 502 (DBZ 308), P1.3 wrote:Context: Goku asks if he should become a Super Saiyan before merging with the Potara, and Elder Kaioshin advices against it
Elder Kaioshin: “If you’re going to become a Super Saiyan, it’s better to do it after merging. But anyway, even without doing that, you’ll probably be plee~~eenty. The Potara’s power is just that amazing!
The Potara's power is just that amazing. If Potara fusion yielded the same results as Metamoran fusion, then there'd be no reason to emphasize the Potara's power in that instance.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Tue Mar 08, 2016 10:26 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:It's not like this is the first time power is emphasized when a new form is about to debut.
Can you elaborate on this point a bit more? The point I'm making is that it'd be redundant for Old Kaioshin to say "The Potara's power is just that amazing!" if it's not just the Potara that makes a fighter that strong but regular Fusion as well.
Hugo Boss wrote:"Effect" means "result/outcome". In general, Potara is better than Fusion. That doesn't automatically mean this statement is referring solely to power.
So what about the resulting Potara fusion would be greater than a Metamoran variant? In a show that is literally all about battle power, I find it a bit hard to believe that power is what is being excluded from Old Kaioshin's assessment of the Potara's greater effect.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Mon Mar 21, 2016 7:31 pm

ekrolo2 wrote:
ahill1 wrote:Very good point Kaboom. But was not Gotenks SSJ sensed from the Kaioshin realm too?
Nope, Gotenks isn't sensed in the Kaioshin realm until he and Piccolo escape when he's SSJ3.
I believe Herms claimed that Gotenks being sensed from the Kaioshin realm was ambiguous, not that Gotenks was never sensed. Not sure where to find it at the moment, but I recall reading that somewhere before.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Thu Mar 24, 2016 3:40 pm

I'd lower Android #16 by a tiny margin. Cell appeared to have a slight advantage in their scuffle, at least in my eyes.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:07 am

Zombie wrote:Can I have numbers for these guys?
SSJ Trunks
-- 25th TB: 112,500,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 150,000,000,000

SSJ Goten
-- 25th TB: 108,000,000,000
-- Post RoSaT: 150,000,000,000

Piccolo
-- Start of the Buu arc: 30,000,000,000
-- 25th TB: 30,000,000,000
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sun Mar 27, 2016 12:01 pm

ahill1 wrote:Goten stronger than Trunks?
They were meant to be switched around.


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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Thu Mar 31, 2016 9:30 pm

The entry that says their power is equal to Cell is very questionable I must say. Unless it's referring to the level Cell used against Goku, I don't think it's possible considering Gohan couldn't kill Cell in one hit like he did the Juniors. I'd say D2's entry makes the most sense.

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by Analytic » Sun Apr 10, 2016 7:28 pm

Last edited by Analytic on Tue Apr 12, 2016 12:35 pm, edited 6 times in total.

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