Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Analytic]

There's never been a thing like "Maintenance training".

There's a first for everything.

Also, bumped up CG and Boo arc Piccolo.

[Analytic]

He's too high. He admitted inferiority to the Cell that wrecked Super Vegeta.

He knew Cell would get stronger than he was against Vegeta and Trunks, if I recall correctly. I believe when Goku comes out of the RoSaT he says to Piccolo that there's no way of knowing how powerful Cell would become. Also, as already mentioned, he saw and sensed Buff Cell.

1) Imperfect cell (post) is too high compared to Kamiccolo IMO
2) Buu arc piccolo must be above SS trunks, or atleast very close, unless you believe that he did rigorous training in between buu arc & BoG, and buu arc piccolo must be dignificantly above CG Piccolo, not weaker than that.
3) Why do you have a power level for every attack?
4) I like your placement on freeza & goku
5) The jumps from Namek to Arrival of trunks are too large and are not even implied (except piccolo). Gohan doesn't even take a note of goku being stronger than on namek, let alone THAT MUCH stronger.
6) Nappa can't "suppress"
7) South kaioshin buu can't be thousands of times stronger than kid buu, because kaioshin saw south kaioshin getting absorbed, and said that he "transformed into bulky one" but not said anything about his power being affected. If he literally got thousands of times stronger , then Kaioshin should've commented on it.

1) What makes you say that?
2) Do you mean Kid Trunks? Also, I don't factor in newer material; manga only.
3) Why not? We've given numbers for the Kamehameha and Makankosappo in the beginning of the manga, so I don't mind coming up with some other ones for other attacks.
4) Thanks.
5) Trunks can take down Freeza in seconds, and Goku was even stronger than Trunks' initial expectations. Goku > Trunks >> Freeza >= Namek Goku.
6) He can't suppress in the sense that he can hide his battle power from a scouter, but he can definitely alter his power output.
7) I don't have South Kaioshin thousands of times stronger than Pure Boo.

[Analytic]

I'd increase Piccolo (Cell Games) even further. He did not seem to be so messed up after the Cell Junior fight. I think he being 78% of the Cell Junior is too much of a gap.

I don't really think that he rivals Trunks or Vegeta just based on the fact that he isn't grouped together with Trunks and Vegeta. I think the gap is fine, it's small enough for Piccolo to not be one-shotted.

Why do you have Goku SSJ2 (Boo saga) and Majin Vegeta that stronger than SSJ2 Cell Games Gohan? Even more when Piccolo was not so sure about Majin Vegeta's superiority.

I usually don't like the excuse of Piccolo not being the best Ki sensor, but in this case I think the gap is relatively small enough for Piccolo to have a harder time telling. It's the absolute maximum I would go, but I think it's possible. It also makes spacing a little easier.

Why is Piccolo (Boo arc) weaker than Cell Games Piccolo?

Mistake. Fixed now.

[Analytic]

Where do you guys have the base Saiyans during Boo saga?

Son Goku - 3,600,000,000

Vegeta - 2,880,000,000
— Bobbidi's power-up - 3,600,000,000

Son Gohan - 2,400,000,000

Son Goten & Trunks - 2,160,000,000 & 2,250,000,000
— post RoSaT - 3,000,000,000

Gotenks - 90,000,000,000
— post RoSaT - 7,500,000,000,000

Vegetto - 450,000,000,000,000~500,000,000,000,000

[Analytic]

What says that speed never correlates with power?

[Analytic]

Burter is faster yet weaker than Ginyu. Same goes for Goku when he arrived to Namek.

Just because you have the same power level as someone else it doesn't mean you have the same speed.

I don't see how two examples equates to "never" being the case.

Not to mention, the point of FPSS was to find and utilize the perfect balance between speed and power (and to remove the strain). I don't see why Gohan would just randomly be off balance while everyone else is normal.

[Analytic]

Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.

[Analytic]

Yes, but if I recall correctly, Krillin thought that Goku was crazy for trying to go up against Nappa, too. I don't have the VIZ app on my phone, so I can't go back and check at the moment.

[Analytic]

I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)

Future Android #17: 100
Future Android #18: 100

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga): 90
Goku SSJ (Androids saga): 96
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga): 100

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town): 120

[Analytic]

What are your numbers for Pui Pui?

1,000,000,000. (Equal to Android saga SS Vegeta.)

[Analytic]

What are your numbers for Pui Pui?

1,000,000,000. (Equal to Android saga SS Vegeta.)

isn't it a bit too low?

Did you mean high? I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this site besides ahill1 try to argue for Pocus being that strong.

[Analytic]

Three years of training made him over 50x stronger; can't eight months at least yield noteworthy gains? All of the Super Saiyans are grouped together quite a few times (Tenshinhan even saying that they're not that different from one another) and Trunks was able to keep up with Vegeta when looking for Gero's lab. I think they should all be within the same league.

[Analytic]

Future Gohan never reached his father's strength, and Trunks is barely any different from Gohan.

Future Trunks >= Future Gohan

Post-Yardrat Goku > Future Gohan

[Analytic]

Obviously that's ridiculously high. A being who bragged about being strongest in a 10g planet vs the strongest in the universe - the result must be clear. You have him 8x Freeza?

1,000,000,000 is the number I have for buu arc SS goku

He didn't brag. He only thought that it'd give him an advantage against Vegeta because he thought he had never been in anything besides normal gravity since he was assumed to be an Earthling.

[Analytic]

The only base for that is Future Bulma, who can't sense ki.

Do you not know what exposition is?

Even what she said is very flexible. We can't know how much stronger Future Trunks was.

My computer is currently broken, so I can't be bothered to search through the Strength Checker on my phone (no Command + F), but if I recall correctly, Bulma says Trunks is "not too different" from Gohan. I don't see how that could possibly be construed to "a good deal stronger".

Except what I wrote before, where he positions himself very close to an individual Future Android. Which is very much above Future Gohan.

When Trunks is in the hospital recovering from his fight with the Androids, he tells Bulma that she was right and that the gap between the Androids and himself is still huge. How does he position himself very close?

What about all the rest I wrote? If you're disagreeing with me please provide arguments or dispute my own.

I did provide an argument. You just dismissed it by saying "Bulma has no clue what she's talking about."

Just stating things as facts makes it hard to take you seriously.

I wasn't aware that someone who uses statements directly from the manga is hard to take seriously. Perhaps I should use statements from my personal fan fiction? Will that be easier for you to take seriously?

[Analytic]

Analytic making a comparison of your post to DanielSSJ one, you basically dismissed me.

I did not dismiss you. If that's the impression you got from my post, then I will clarify by assuring you that that was not the intent of my post. I have not had my computer for a few weeks now, and I do not like making long posts on my phone, especially since I can't search through the strength checker on it since I can't use Command + F.

You said A is B and that's it. Ignoring everything I wrote, which has statements that oppose what you said. Which I didn't dismiss, I disputed. Maybe this is me being picky with words but they aren't the same thing.

It's not being picky with words. You're right that they're not the same thing, but I did not find just claiming a character who was never contradicted is unreliable as a valid argument, which is why I did not feel that my argument was disputed.

He doesn't here but he does in the Android Arc, I have the statement in my initial post.

Your argument is based on the assumption that Trunks' power didn't change, which, is a valid interpretation, but doesn't actually have any backing to make it a fact.

To me, Trunks going from saying that the gap between them and him is huge to saying that he could fight them fairly well implies that he powered up significantly. I also believe that Piccolo surpassed Trunks' power from three years back, and Trunks is stated to be stronger than Piccolo in the Android arc.

Regarding the part of the Bulma quote, the words are not amazingly different, which in the context to me, denotes a big/decent power gain but not enough to matter.

To me it seems to imply a small difference. I suppose we just have different interpretations of the quote.

Just want to add that Trunks also said that Goku was even better than he expected, which would mean: Trunks >> Goku (Yardrat) > Goku (expected) > Gohan. Do you think that could still be considered "not amazingly different"?

[Analytic]

Here are some power levels. Please critique.

Spoiler:

Saiyan arc



Arrival of Raditz


Farmer
~ full power - 5

Piccolo
~ weighted - 322
~ full power - 408
--- 1st Makankōsappō - 1,330
--- 2nd Makankōsappō - 1,280

Son Goku
~ weighted - 334
~ full power - 416
--- Kamehameha - 924

Son Gohan
~ afraid - 1
~ distressed - 710
~ enraged - 1,307

Raditz
~ full power - 1,250



Pre Preparation


Piccolo
~ weighted - 329

Muten-Roshi
~ full power - 139

Chaozu
~ full power - 151

Yamcha
~ full power - 177

Kuririn
~ full power - 206

Tenshinhan
~ full power - 250

Enma Daio
~ full power - 1,800

Kaio-sama
~ full power - 3,500



Battle with Nappa and Vegeta


Yajirobe
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 600

Piccolo
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ suppressed - 1,220
~ full power - 2,000

Son Gohan
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ suppressed - 981
~ full power - 1,307
~ enraged - 2,800
--- Masenkō - 2,800
~ weakened - 600
~ Great Ape - 6,000

Kuririn
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ suppressed - 1,083
~ full power - 1,440

Chaozu
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 800

Tenshinhan
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 1,600
--- beaten down - 500
---- Kikoho - 2,500

Yamcha
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 1,350

Saibaman
~ full power - 1,200

Nappa
~ suppressed (vs. Zet Senshi) - 3,600
~ powered-up (vs. Goku) - 4,500
~ full power - 7,500

Son Goku
post 5 month Kaio-sama training
~ suppressed - 5,000
~ full power - 8,000+
~ Kaioken x2 - 16,000+
~ Kaioken x3 - 24,000+
---+ Kamehameha - 27,000+
~ Kaioken x4 - 32,000+
---+ Kamehameha - 36,000+

Vegeta
~ full power - 18,000
--- Gyarikku Hō - 27,000+
--- weakened (post Moon Ball) - 10,000
~ Great Ape - 180,000
--- weakened (post Moon Ball) - 100,000
--- weakened (post Great Ape) - 1,500

Spoiler:

Freeza arc



Arrival on Namek


Son Gohan
post Vegeta battle zenkai
~ full power - 1,500

Kuririn
~ weighted - 1,500

Banan
~ full power - 500

Sui
~ full power - 500

Vegeta
post Earth battle zenkai
~ full power - 24,000
--- Kitanai Hanabi - 30,000
post Zarbon battle zenkai
~ full power - 30,000

Kiwi
~ full power - 18,000

Orlen
~ full power - 1,500

Appule
~ Appule - 2,000
~ Lord Appule - 720,000

Namekian Warriors
~ suppressed - 1,000
~ full power - 3,000

Dodoria
~ full power - 20,000

Zarbon
~ Beautiful - 21,600
~ Monster - 28,800



The Ginyu Force


Kuririn
post Guru potential unlock
~ full power - 12,000
post Reacoom fight / vs. Ginyu
~ initial - 25,000

Son Gohan
post Guru potential unlock
~ full power - 12,800
post Reacoom fight zenkai
~ initial - 27,000

Vegeta
~ full power - 30,000
post Reacoom fight zenkai
~ full power (vs. Jeice) - 250,000

Gurd
~ full power - 10,000

Reacoom
~ full power - 36,000
--- Eraser Gun - 40,000

Jeice
~ full power - 36,000
--- Crusher Ball - 50,000

Butta
~ full power - 36,000

Son Goku
post 100x gravity training
~ suppressed - 5,000
~ bursts (vs. Ginyus) - 67,500
~ full power - 90,000
~ Kaioken x2 - 180,000
~ Kaioken x10 - 900,000

Captain Ginyu
~ full power - 120,000
in Son Goku's body
~ full power - 23,000

Nail
~ full power - 42,000



Battle with Freeza


Son Gohan
post Ginyu zenkai / potential unlocked
~ full power - 400,000
~ enraged - 1,000,000
post 2nd form Freeza fight zenkai
~ full power - 1,000,000
~ enraged - 2,250,000

Kuririn
power gradually increasing / potential unlocked
~ full power - 360,000

Vegeta
post Ginyu zenkai / fully rested
~ full power - 500,000
post Dende zenkai
~ full power - 3,600,000

Piccolo
post Kaio-sama's training
~ weighted - 216,000
~ full power - 270,000
post Nail assimilation
~ weighted - 1,440,000
~ full power - 1,800,000

Freeza
~ 1st form - 530,000
~ 2nd form (initial) - 1,060,000
~ 2nd form (powered-up): 1,350,000
~ 2nd form (full power) - 1,600,000
~ 3rd form - 2,400,000
~ True form (initial) - 5,400,000
~ True form (50%) - 120,000,000
~ True form (70%) - 168,000,000
~ True form - 240,000,000
--- Nova Strike - 562,500,000

Son Goku
post Ginyu zenkai
~ base - 5,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 - 100,000,000
---+ Kamehameha - 112,500,000
~ Super Saiyan - 250,000,000
--- Kamehameha - 540,000,000

Spoiler:

Cell arc



Freeza's Revenge


Freeza
post cybernetic enhancement power up
~ suppressed - 180,000,000
--- Supernova - 250,000,000
~ 100% power - 270,000,000

King Cold
~ full power - 200,000,000

Future Trunks
~ base - 9,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 450,000,000

Son Goku
post 1 year & 260 days Yardrat training
~ base - 10,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 500,000,000

Vegeta
post 130 days of rest, and 1 year & 130 days training on Earth and in space after Namek battle
~ full power - 8,000,000

Piccolo
post 260 days of rest and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 7,500,000

Son Gohan
post 260 days of rest/studying and 1 year studying after Namek battle
~ full power - 1,350,000

Kuririn
post 130 days dead, 130 days of rest, and 1 year of training after Namek battle
~ full power - 1,200,000

Tenshinhan
post 266 days training with Kaio-sama, and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 300,000

Yamcha
post 136 days training with Kaio-sama and 1 year & 130 days of rest after Namek battle
~ full power - 200,000

Chaozu
post 266 days training with Kaio-sama, and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 100,000



The Future


Future Piccolo
time of death
~ full power - 14,400,000

Future Vegeta
time of death
~ full power - 15,000,000

Future Son Gohan
~ base - 6,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 300,000,000
post left arm amputation
~ base - 8,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 400,000,000

Future Trunks
age 14
~ base - 120,000
~ Super Saiyan - 6,000,000
age 17
~ base - 9,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 450,000,000

Future #17
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)
~ 36% power - 360,000,000 (infinitely)

Future #18
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)



Arrival of the Androids


Son Goku
post 3 years Android training
~ base - 19,200,000
~ Super Saiyan - 960,000,000
~ Super Saiyan (sick) - 600,000,000

Piccolo
post 3 years Android training
~ suppressed - 14,400,000
~ full power - 720,000,000
post re-merge with Kami-sama
Kamiccolo
~ weighted - 1,440,000,000
~ full power - 1,600,000,000

Son Gohan
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 12,500,000

Kuririn
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 10,000,000

Yamcha
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 4,000,000

Tenshinhan
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 6,000,000

Android #19
~ max power - 400,000,000
post Ki absorption
~ max power - 540,000,000

Vegeta
post 3 years Android training
~ base - 20,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 1,000,000,000
--- Big Bang Attack - 1,250,000,000

Android #20 (Dr. Gero)
~ max power - 500,000,000
post Ki absorption
~ max power - 600,000,000

Future Trunks
post training in the Future
~ base - 18,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 900,000,000

Android #17
~ max power - 1,600,000,000 (infinitely)

Android #18
~ max power - 1,400,000,000 (infinitely)



Android #21, Cell


Piccolo
~ weighted - 1,440,000,000

Cell
post 4 years evolution / hatching
~ 1st form - 1,200,000,000
--- Kamehameha - 2,665,000,000



The Quest for Perfection


Piccolo
~ full power - 1,600,000,000
--- Gekiretsu Kodan - 4,500,000,000

Android #17
~ max power - 1,600,000,000 (infinitely)

Android #18
~ max power - 1,400,000,000 (infinitely)

Android #16
~ max power - 7,200,000,000 (infinitely)

Cell
post mass humans absorbed
~ 1st form - 7,500,000,000
post Android #17 absorption
~ 2nd form (initial suppression) - 12,000,000,000



Hour of decision


Vegeta
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 12,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 20,000,000,000
--- Final Flash - 50,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 62,500,000,000

Future Trunks
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 240,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 12,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 19,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 60,000,000,000

Cell
~ 2nd form (initial suppression) - 12,000,000,000
~ 2nd form (full power) - 15,000,000,000
post Android #18 absorption
~ Perfect form (initial suppression) - 18,750,000,000
~ Perfect form (warming up suppression) - 40,000,000,000
~ Perfect form (power weighted) - 80,000,000,000



10 days peace


Son Goku
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ Super Saiyan (50%) - 50,000,000,000

Piccolo
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ full power - 45,000,000,000



The Cell Games


Mr. Satan
~ full power - 6.66

Kuririn
~ full power - 10,000,000

Yamcha
~ full power - 4,000,000

Tenshinhan
~ full power - 6,000,000

Son Goku
~ base - 2,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 100,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan (post Kamehameha) - 80,000,000,000

Vegeta
post 2nd year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 1,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 62,500,000,000

Future Trunks
post 2nd year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 1,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 60,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ full power - 45,000,000,000

Android #16
~ max power - 7,200,000,000 (infinitely)

Son Gohan
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 150,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 750,000,000,000

Cell
~ Perfect form (powered up suppression) - 112,500,000,000
--- All-out (in speed) - 150,000,000,000
~ Perfect form (full power) - 450,000,000,000
post Android #18 regurgitation
~ 2nd form - 15,000,000,000
post self-destruct zenkai
~ Perfect form (Super Perfect) - 675,000,000,000

Cell Jr.
~ full power - 64,000,000,000



Free the Future


Future Trunks
~ base - 1,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 60,000,000,000

Future #17
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)

Future #18
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)

Future Cell
post mass human absorption
~ 1st form - 3,6000,000,000

Spoiler:

Majin Boo arc



25th Tenkaichi Budokai


Son Goku
post 7 years training in the afterlife
~ base - 3,600,000,000

Vegeta
post 7 years training on Earth
~ base - 2,880,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 144,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 720,000,000,000

Son Gohan
post 7 years of inactivity
~ base - 2,400,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 120,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 600,000,000,000

Son Goten
~ base - 2,160,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 108,000,000,000

Trunks
~ base - 2,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 112,500,000,000

Android #18
~ max power - 1,400,000,000 (infinitely)

Kuririn
post 4 years of light training & 3 years of inactivity
~ full power - 10,000,000

Piccolo
post 7 years of light training
~ full power - 50,000,000,000

East Kaioshin
~ full power - 80,000,000,000

Kibito
~ full power - 1,000,000,000



Bobbidi's Spaceship


East Kaioshin
~ full power - 80,000,000,000

Pocus
~ full power - 1,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ base - 2,880,000,000

Yakon
~ full power - 3,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ base - 3,600,000,000
~ Super Saiyan (suppressed light demonstration) - 11,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 (suppressed burst) - 750,000,000,000

Dabra
~ full power - 112,500,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Super Saiyan - 120,000,000,000



Majin Boo awakens


Son Goten
~ Super Saiyan - 108,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Super Saiyan - 112,500,000,000

Kuririn
~ full power - 10,000,000

Piccolo
~ full power - 50,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Super Saiyan - 120,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 600,000,000,000

East Kaioshin
~ full power - 80,000,000,000

Vegeta
post Majin power up
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 900,000,000,000
--- Final Explosion - 4,000,000,000,000

Majin Boo
South Kaioshin & Dai Kaioshin absorbed
~ initial suppression - 500,000,000,000
~ powered up - 1,000,000,000,000
~ full power - 3,000,000,000,000

Dabra
~ full power - 112,500,000,000

Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 900,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 3,600,000,000,000

Trunks and Goten metamoran fusion
Gotenks
~ base - 90,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 4,500,000,000,000



Fusion


Son Gohan
~ base - 2,400,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 180,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 600,000,000,000
post Zeta Sword training
~ base - 4,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 200,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 1,000,000,000,000
post Elder Kaioshin potential unlock
~ Ultimate | full power - 9,000,000,000,000,000

Majin Boo
~ full power - 3,000,000,000,000
evil released
~ Good Boo - 1,200,000,000,000
~ Pure Evil Boo - 1,800,000,000,000

Son Goten
post 2 week Room of Spirit and Time training
~ Super Saiyan - 150,000,000,000

Trunks
post 2 week Room of Spirit and Time training
~ Super Saiyan - 150,000,000,000

Gotenks
post 2 week Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 7,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 375,000,000,000,000
--- Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack - 750,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 1,875,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 7,500,000,000,000,000

Evil Boo
Pure Evil Boo eats Good Boo
~ initial - 4,000,000,000,000
~ power up 1 (@ Lookout) - 8,000,000,000,000
~ power up 2 (vs. SS Gotenks) - 500,000,000,000,000
~ full power - 6,000,000,000,000,000
--- Mouth Blast - 6,750,000,000,000,000
~ Gotenks absorbed - 13,500,000,000,000,000
~ Gohan absorbed - 15,000,000,000,000,000
--- Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack - 30,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta and Goku metamoran fusion
Gogeta
~ base - 9,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 450,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 2,250,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 9,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta and Goku potara fusion
Vegetto
~ base - 500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 25,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 125,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 500,000,000,000,000,000



The Final Battle


Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 3,600,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 900,000,000,000

Pure Boo
~ South Kaioshin absorbed - 12,000,000,000,000,000
removal of all influence
~ full power - 3,600,000,000,000

Good Boo
~ full power - 1,200,000,000,000



End of Z


Son Goku
post 10 years training
~ base - 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 75,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 375,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 1,500,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ full power - 9,000,000,000,000,000

Good Boo
~ full power - 1,200,000,000,000

Oob
Pure Boo reincarnated
~ enraged - 1,440,000,000,000
~ angry Kiai - 3,600,000,000,000

[Analytic]

- You have the humans way too close to Piccolo in the Saiyan saga. I think the ratio from 408/250/208/177 should be taken into account somewhat.

I could bump him up to 2,400, but I feel it starts becoming very cramped as Piccolo thought that Nappa was immortal after he tanked Tenshinhan's Kikoho (which should be < Gohan's 2,800 Masenko). Which to me implies 2,800 > Kikoho > Piccolo.

- I'd bump Monster Zarbon a bit. Vegeta needed cheap tricks to beat him.

I don't think that Vegeta necessarily needed cheap tricks to win, just to have an easier time defeating Zarbon so that he wouldn't have to have a long/dragged out fight that would deplete him of his stamina.

- Recoome, Burter and Jeice that weak?

I don't consider that too weak.

- Super Saiyan Goku and Freeza's battle wasn't that close like your numbers imply.

I suppose we just interpret the fight differently. Freeza seemed pretty competitive until his stamina depleted to me.

- I really don't think Mecha Freeza is stronger than Super Saiyan Goku. Why bring Cold then?

It's completely possible that he expected Goku to grow stronger after their fight on Namek, as he knows what zenkais are. And while he did bring Cold, he still stated that he was pretty sure he could win alone.

- So Goku grew twice as strong in less than 2 years while healing and mastering IT? I don't buy it.

Meh. I attribute to plot. Goku > Trunks >> FP Freeza is what's implied, so it's what I go with.

- Piccolo admitted inferiority to the Perfect Cell that beat up Super Vegeta.

He saw Buff Cell. He also knew that Cell could grow stronger, as I believe he heard Goku saying that there was no telling how powerful Cell could become or something along those lines.

- I'd bump Kibito a bit. He was supposed to give base Gohan some trouble.

Yeah, I don't follow that Daizenshuu tidbit. Nothing in the manga tells me that Kibito is all that strong and the Zeta Sword bit where he fails to even budge it tells me that he's all talk.

- You have an error in the Majin Boo awakens section concerning East Kaioshin.

Thanks. Will fix.

[Analytic]

To elaborate, you could bump Piccolo in the Saiyan arc and the humans as well. You seem to follow the idea that Piccolo fusion is x2, following what the Grand Elder said he should be about half of Nappa. I like your Nappa number, so Piccolo at 3xxx would be excellent.

Well, as expressed above, I have a hard time placing Piccolo as high as the 3,000s simply because he thought that Nappa tanking the Kikoho (which I believe is weaker than 2,800) was because he was immortal (not literally, obviously, but he still thought it should've killed Nappa, which I don't think makes sense if he himself is higher than it). He also said that Gohan's power surpasses his own if he concentrates, which I interpret as Gohan's 2,800 level being > Piccolo.

You already know I disagree about Mirai Trunks, no point to get into it again. But Goku and Trunks are way too high! Freeza is still a reference, he has to be much closer to them. When Trunks called Goku amazing, he talked "this is the sword that killed Freeza", something along those lines that highlight Freeza as a pretty amazing foe still.

Trunks told Freeza and Cold to come at him at full power and expressed confidence in taking both of them down at once. You could argue that he doesn't know how strong Freeza is (although it's completely possible for him to know), but I just assume that the author's intent here is that Trunks is significantly stronger. It helps to emphasize how strong the new enemy (the Androids that are even stronger than the Super Saiyan that just easily defeated Freeza) is.

I strongly disagree with Base Saiyans>Freeza. Beerus statement is the final nail in the coffin for me this regarding this.

I don't really take into account new material when discussing the manga. And I realize that's contradictory since I included Battle of Gods in this list, but that was mainly for fun. I don't actually take anything from it very seriously and as far as the manga alone goes, Freeza vs. Base is ambiguous.

I have Majin Boo as a little more than 2x SSJ2 Gohan, since that was how much it was necessary to bring Boo to full power.

Majin Boo put up quite a good fight against SS3 Goku, so I can't see him being too much weaker. Not only that, but even when he lost over half of his power, he still put up a significantly better fight than Vegeta against Pure Boo (even excluding regeneration).

Gohan filled a little under half of Boo's meter to be restored, but I don't think that was necessarily Boo's full power. I only think that it was the energy necessary to revive Boo.

I can't see how Evil Boo obtained such power simply by eating Good Boo, it's insane and lacks a decent explanation for it. Specially since you believe Boo's absorption to be an addition and even if Boo ate Boo, we see him absorbed like the others.

Well, I can't make sense of it regardless since Evil Boo is significantly stronger than Fat Boo regardless of whatever gap someone has, and he's made up of the same components as Fat Boo. I guess that a Boo eating a Boo just has some abnormal effect and is not additive, similar to absorbing Kaioshins.


EDIT: Lowered post-Zeta Sword Gohan.

[Analytic]

Opinions for Vegeta's battle power against Jeice but before he naps? I think 250,000.