Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[Analytic]

How strong do y'all think SS Gohan was during the Cell Games?

A good deal stronger than Goku, but considerably weaker than Full-Power Perfect Cell.

Cell and Gohan seemed slightly even after Cell upped his speed, but after Gohan went SS2, Cell did a huge power-up that shocked everyone. Not only that, but it actually took Gohan a few blows to put Cell down. I think SS2 Gohan would be able to kill SS Gohan in a single hit.

[Analytic]

So, I have been reworking my battle powers and wondered where do you guys put the following people:

(assuming base for all of the Saiyans):
Future Gohan (two-armed): 6
Future Gohan (one-armed): 8
Future Trunks (Mecha arc): 9
Future Vegeta (time of death): 15
Future Piccolo (time of death): 14.4
Goku (Mecha arc): 10

[Analytic]

Piccolo might have meant "less than half my power" in literal terms, rather than whatever battle power abstracts it to.

Would you say the same to Future #17's line to Future Gohan? Because they both essentially say the same thing.

[Analytic]

23rd TB Goku >> PD arc Goku >~ King Piccolo > BoZ Tenshinhan > 23rd TB Tenshinhan, yet:[spoiler][/spoiler]

Something doesn't add up...

[Analytic]

On scales of 1 to 10, how would you put these characters:

Super Vegetto
Super Boo-han
Super Boo-tenks
Ultimate Gohan
SSJ3 Gotenks
Super Boo
Fat Boo
Grey Boo
SSJ3 Goku
SSJ2 Vegeta (after Majin Boost)

SS Vegetto: 10
Gohan-Boo: 6
Gotenks-Boo: 5.4
Ultimate Gohan: 3.6
SS3 Gotenks 3
Evil Boo: 2.4
SS3 Goku: 0.0012
Majin Boo: 0.0010
Gray Boo: 0.0006
Good Boo: 0.0004
SS2 Vegeta: 0.0003

[Analytic]

So where do you lot place King Cold? The Daizenshuu says he's slightly behind Frieza. The Earthlings described two huge powers and not that one was really bigger than the other or anything.

So slightly less than 100% Frieza on Namek? Like 100 million or so?

I have him at 200,000,000. For comparison, I have 100% Freeza at 240,000,000, Namek SS Goku at 250,000,000, and Mecha Freeza at 270,000,000.

[Analytic]

Would it be right to say Pre RoSaT Super Saiyan Goten and Trunks are above Piccolo?

Unless you think Piccolo can make SS Gohan exert serious effort and give him serious issues trying to block his blows, then I'd say yes, it would be right.

[Analytic]

- I really find hard to believe Mecha Freeza surpassed Namek SSJ Goku. Why bring Cold if he did?

He said it was for extra insurance, and that he could probably beat Goku alone. And he couldn't expect Goku to be stronger as well? The reason Freeza exterminated the Saiyans was because of how rapidly they grew in strength, and he also knew about zenkais.

[Analytic]

Like you said Bulma can't feel Ki, looking at the context she just doesn't her son to kill himself.

I don't think the statement would be there if it wasn't true. Trunks could've just been hasty in wanting to avenge Gohan.

[Analytic]

There's a lot of glowing compliments to Gotenks' strength, but almost no direct comparisons.

Goku directly says that Gotenks will be stronger than him.

[Analytic]

It seems extremely telling to me that the only concrete comparative statements about Gotenks were made before he ever existed, and it's by the guy who is already downplaying his own strength.

Why should the statement being made before Gotenks existed mean that it's not true? That rule seems completely arbitrary. And Goku was downplaying his strength because he wanted to give the kids a chance at saving the world; why does that diminish the validity of his statement about how strong Gotenks will be?

Gotenks is unfulfilled hype.

Unfulfilled? If Goku blatantly says that Gotenks will be stronger than him, then what is there to doubt? Piccolo basically confirms Gotenks' strength when he says that Gotenks "really is absolutely incredible" (Key word being: "really").

If anything, I would say that it's telling that Boo just happened to turn into a more powerful form just before he got a chance to fight Gotenks. Seems kind of redundant if Boo was stronger either way.

[Analytic]

Because Goku has little way of knowing for sure how powerful Gotenks would be.

According to who? Why do you get to decide what Goku can and can't do? I would think that Goku has more knowledge on fusion than you do.

And I find it telling that when Piccolo says Gotenks is impressive, he doesn't actually say that he could beat Boo. He needs to test him to be sure.

You skipped over the key word: "really". There's a difference between general praise (e.g. "Wow, you're incredible!") and confirmation of a statement (e.g. "Wow, you really are incredible!") The "really" basically makes it sound as if Piccolo is confirming a suspicion or an assertion made prior, which was that Gotenks would be stronger than Goku. If Gotenks didn't quite measure up to Goku's expectations, I don't think Piccolo would say that he really is incredible.

[Analytic]

Can some post the following numbers they have for these guys

Yardrat Goku
Sick goku
19 pre/post
20 pre/post
Piccolo
Trunks
Healthy Goku
Vegeta

In millions:

100% Freeza: 240*
SS Goku (Namek): 250*
SS Goku (Yardrat): 500
19 (pre): 400
20 (pre): 500
19 (post): 540
20 (post): 600, SS Goku (Sick): 600
Piccolo: 720
SS Trunks: 900
SS Goku: 960
SS Vegeta: 1,000

*For reference

[Analytic]

Then she can throw them out of the ring like she did with the blonde guy. She's not interested in fighting yet gets locked in combat with Mighty Mask.

And shoots a Ki blast at him. That sure is an interesting way of "holding back"...

[Analytic]

What about Gohan? He's in the tournament to win yet is fine with fighting in base knowing 18 wouldn't let him win (she wants the prize money too). I doubt he'd go back on his word considering he's the one that proposed the no-SS rule.

[Analytic]

Second is that Kibito wasn't able to fully heal him. Which I'm pretty certain is directly said, can't say for sure since I don't have the manga in front of me. This one seems pretty clear cut since nobody gave him a senzu or something in-between.

Spoiler:

It seems more like it took Kibito a long time to restore Gohan to full based. It looks like he kept going after his statement of Gohan not being back at full yet.

[Analytic]

There's plenty of reasons why Piccolo wouldn't be sure even if the two weren't close.

Like what?

[Analytic]

My first question is how strong is Base Goku GT supposed to be? He's apparently stronger than Buu right? Most likely Kid Buu. Anything more specific?


Second question is with Ledgic would you say he's closer to Base Goku in strength or Super Saiyan Goku?

It depends on which point in GT you're talking about. Goku is constantly increasing his strength throughout the show, and even surpasses his beginning of GT Super Saiyan power in his base form by the time he fights Rild.

Closer to his base form for sure.. He was barely advantaged against Base Goku and got manhandled by Super Saiyan Goku. Are you watching the English dub? Because I know Redjic mentions holding back in the English dub, which he never does in the original Japanese version.

[Analytic]

I think it's just proof of Goku's increase between Lood and M2. It may not make much sense but it's what suggested.

[Analytic]

Gohan is also stated to train between EoZ and GT in the GT Perfect Files, so he's likely stronger than Ultimate Gohan or at least in a similar ballpark.