Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[apex_pretador]

Dragon Ball super:(part 1)

Pre BoG:

Spoiler:

Gohan - 25,000,000,000
Gotenks - 7,000,000,000 (SS) , 21,000,000,000 (SS3)
Goku - 70,000,000 , SS - 3,500,000,000 , SS2 - 7,000,000,000 , SS3 - 28,000,000,000
Vegeta - 70,000,000 , SS - 3,500,000,000 , SS2- 7,000,000,000 , bulma slap - 700,000,000,000 (WHAT )
Piccolo - 880,000,000 (weighted)
Beerus - infinite

Battle of gods:

Spoiler:

Here, all the power levels hit reset

SSG Goku - 30,000 (initial) , FP 50,000 , full potential - 60,000
Goku - 5000 , SS - 40,000
Beerus - 100,000
Whis - 150,000 ??

Goku (post battle) - 2500 , SS - 20,000

Freeza back:

Spoiler:

Vegeta - 4000 , SS - 32,000
Goku - 2500, SS - 20,000
___________training ________
Goku = vegeta - 7000 , SSB - 70,000
Freeza :

• First form - 600
  Final form - 6400
  Golden form - 80,000 , tired - 60,000

Gohan - 50 , SS - 400 , enraged - 800
Piccolo - 50
Krillin - 20
Roshi - 10
Tagoma - 120 , ginyu tagoma - 180
SS gotenks - 400
Shisami - 25

[apex_pretador]

2,000,000 is the absolutely minimum for 3rd Form Freeza I'd say. My Freeza saga power levels:


Kuririn - 300,000

Vegeta (after resting, full power burst) - 500,000

Freeza (full power, infuriated) - 530,000
- (transformed) - 1,060,000
- (powered up further) - 1,200,000
- (full strength) - 1,400,000
- (transformed again) - 2,000,000
- (initial true form) - 3,100,000
- (embarassing Vegeta) - 4,400,000
- (50%) - 100,000,000

Son Gohan - 400,000
- (enranged) - 1,000,000
- (full power assault) - 1,100,000
- (healed) - 1,000,000
- (aggravated) - 1,700,000
- (Full-power Massive Masenko) - 1,920,000

Piccolo (assimilation, weighted) - 1,250,000
- (unweighted) - 1,500,000

Vegeta (massive auto-evolution) - 3,000,000

Son Goku (healed) - 4,300,000
- (Kaio-ken x 10) - 43,000,000
- (Kaio-ken x 20) - 86,000,000
- (Kamehameha) - 96,000,000
- (chi dropping after burst) - 1,500,000
- (Genki Dama) - 120,000,000

SSJ Son Goku - 215,000,000
- (Kamehameha) - 534,000,000

Freeza (after Genki Dama) - 77,000,000
- (70% chi burst) - 140,000,000
- (100%) - 200,000,000
- (Force Field) - 537,500,000
- (worn down) - 175,000,000
- (sliced in half) - 1,000
- (Goku's energy donated) - 33,000,000
- (desperation blast) - 66,000,000
- (reduced to residue) - 500

Great list, keep it up!

Not necessarily.

Spoiler:

Son Goku: 3,000,000
-- Kaioken x10: 30,000,000
-- Kaioken x20: 60,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 150,000,000

Freeza [3rd suppression]: 530,000
-- 2nd suppression: 800,000
-- Power up [vs Son Gohan]: 950,000
-- Full power: 1,200,000
-- 1st suppression: 1,800,000
-- True form: 3,600,000
-- 50% of full power: 60,000,000
-- 70% of full power: 84,000,000
-- Full power: 120,000,000

Vegeta: 250,000
-- Zenkai boost [vs True form Freeza]: 2,400,000

Son Gohan: 200,000
-- Enraged [vs 2nd suppression Freeza]: 700,000
-- Zenkai boost [vs 1st suppression Freeza]: 400,000
-- Enraged [vs 1st suppression Freeza]: 1,600,000

Piccolo: 120,000
-- After assimilating Nail: 1,000,000
-- Without weighted clothes: 1,200,000
-- With Son Gohan and Kuririn’s energy: 1,500,000

Kuririn: 75,000

I think freeza said "my power NOW is atleast over 1 million" before powering up vs gohan.

[apex_pretador]

OK, here comes my improved GT list:

Baby arc:

Spoiler:

Uub - 10,000,000,000
Adult goku - 10,000,000,000
________________________
Kid goku - 10,000,000,000

SS gohan - 8,000,000,000
Base gohan - 2,000,000,000
SS goten - 2,000,000,000

Piccolo - in billions

Vegeta - 6,000,000,000
SS vegeta - 30,000,000,000
Baby vegeta - 50,000,000,000

Kid goku - 10,000,000,000 , SS3 - 50,000,000,000

Baby vegeta :

• 50,000,000,000
  100,000,000,000
  130,000,000,000

Ozaru baby - 400,000,000,000
SS4 goku - 400,000,000,000 (well, he comes out to be equal to SS vegetto from buu arc)

Majuub - 100,000,000,000

Super 17 arc:

Spoiler:

Majuub - 100,000,000,000
SS vegeta - 160,000,000,000
Super 17 - 220,000,000,000 (pre)

SS goku - 250,000,000,000

Shadow dragon arc:

Spoiler:

Base goku (100 yrs later) = infinite ^ 100
Base kid goku (shenron absorbed) = 10x infinite
Base kid goku - infinite
SS4 gogeta - 32,000,000,000,000
Omega shenron - 12,000,000,000,000
SS4 vegeta - 1,600,000,000,000 (10x SS vegeta)
SS4 goku (Beyond limits) - 1,600,000,000,000
Syn shenron - 1,200,000,000,000
SS4 goku (initial) - 800,000,000,000
Nuova shenron - 800,000,000,000
Ice shenron - 700,000,000,000

[apex_pretador]

Are you serious? when Gohan cannot even sense Kibito's chi and everyone is unsure at his power? And yes, Kibito being on base Gohan's level contradicts the manga, since the former can't even lift the Zeta sword, yet the latter can move it around with some difficulty.

Like i said before,lifting strength =/= Power Level.Just like how speed =/= power level.50% Final Form Freeza can carry an entire island whereas Boo Arc Base Goku can't even lift 40 tons without turning SSj.And where was it stated that Kibito's ki can't be sensed ? It was only Kaioshin that is confirmed.

Spoiler:

Chapter: 439 (DBZ 245), P10.2
Context: as Piccolo and Kaioshin's match begins
Vegeta: “We’ll finally know: just how much is his battle power, which we haven’t even been able to estimate?...”

Agreed , and no kaioshin EVER could lift the Z sword

[apex_pretador]

Can you guys post your numbers for Future Trunks [Before he travels to the past], Future Gohan and Future Vegeta?

Reference:

- SS goku (namek) = 100,000,000
- "100%" freeza , namek - 100,000,000
- ''100%" HEALTHY freeza = 120,000,000

Yadrat goku = 110 million

Future gohan (1st battle) = 75 million
Future gohan (one arm) = 95 million , base - 3.8 million

Future trunks (kid) = 140,000 , SS - 3,500,000
Future trunks (vs future androids) = SS - 93 million
Future trunks (vs freeza) = 95 million

Future trunks (android arc) = 125 million

Future vegeta = about 7 million before death

Future piccolo = about 10 million pre death

[apex_pretador]

Where do you guys put these people at ?

- MSSj Less strain Vegeta (Cell Games) 520

- Cell Junior 525

- Piccolo (Boo Arc) 760

- MSSj Goku (Cell Games) 800

- MSSj Kid Gohan (Cell Games) 880

- Goten 550
--- Post ROSAT Nearly same

- SSj Teen Gohan 750 , yes, I put him weaker than piccolo
--- Post Z Sword Training 1000

- Kaioshin 1000

- Dabra 1350

- Perfect Cell 1100

Everyone in million PL units.
Oh, and buu arc SS goku = 1 billion

[apex_pretador]

- MSSj Kid Gohan (Cell Games): 3,000

- SSj Teen Gohan: 3,100 (3,000 pre TB)

You sure you are talking about gohan?

[apex_pretador]

@danielSSJ
Interesting list

[apex_pretador]

What if power levels got rapid increases everytime like freeza arc:
M = million
B = Billion
T = trillion
Q = quadrillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000x = 10^15
MT = quintillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000x = 10^18
BT = sextillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000x = 10^21
BQ = septillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000x = 10^24
TQ = octillion = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000x = 10^27

Android arc:

Spoiler:

Trunks - 250 M
Piccolo - 200 M
Vegeta - 300 M , 250 M (Battle worn & stressed) , 140 M (post)
Vegeta BBA - 1400 M
#19 - 60 M (post goku) , 10 M (battle worn) , 100 M (post vegeta)
Gero - 150 M , 170 M (post)
Goku - 300 M (healthy)


#18 - 500 M
#17 - 600 M
Initial cell - 450 M
Weighted kamiccolo - 500 M
Kamiccolo - 600 M , light grenade - 6000 M

Cell (post) - 10,000 M
#16 - 10,000 M

Cell arc:

Spoiler:

Semi perfect cell - 20 B , full power - 50 B
Super vegeta - 150 B (confident on beating PC) , final flash - 3000 B
Super trunks - 130 B (weaker than vegeta) , buff - 2600 B
Tien - 20 M , Kikoho - 10 B
Initial PC - 500 B , buff - 10,000 B

Goku (around half) - 15,000 B

Cell games:

Spoiler:

Goku - 30 T , KHH - 90 T , FP KHH - 300 T
Cell (vs goku) - 90 T , vs gohan - 200 T , FP - 500 T , FP KHH - 10,000 T , buff - 10,000 T
Super perfect cell - 11,000 T
Gohan SS - 120 T , SS2 - 12,000 T , KHH - 40,000 T

Vegeta / trunks - 20 T
Cell Jr - 23 T
Piccolo - 15 T
Krillin - 80 M
Tien - 50 M
Yamcha - 49 M

Buu arc:

Spoiler:

Gohan SS - 50 T , SS2 - 5,000 T

Goku SS2 - 15 Q , SS3 - 3,000 Q
Majin SS2 vegeta - 15 Q , self explosion - 1500 Q

Fat buu - 11 Q (initial) , 18 Q (powerup) , 50 Q (vs majin vegeta) , 500 Q (enraged)
SS gotenks (pre) - 5,000 Q
Base gotenks (post) - 10,000 Q

Super buu arc:

Spoiler:

Base gotenks - 10,000 Q
SS gotenks - 500 MT
SS3 gotenks - 10,000 BT
Super buu - 9,000 BT , self (mini) explosion - 90,000 BT

Gohan - 150 BQ
Buutenks - 190 BQ
Buuccolo - 90 BQ

Buuhan - 1500 BQ = 1.5 TQ
Vegetto - 2 TQ , SS - 100 TQ = 100,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000
Kid buu - 4,000 Q

Movie 13:

Spoiler:

Gohan - 150 BQ
SS goku / vegeta - 250 BQ
Hirdugarn - 5,000 BQ
Gotenks - 500 BQ , death-death attack - 10,000 BQ
SS2 goku - 25 TQ
SS3 goku - 5,000 TQ
Super hirdugarn - 10,000 TQ

SS3 goku dragon fist - 1,000,000 TQ = 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

[apex_pretador]

Here's a little list I made of Goku & Freeza's power levels during their fight. I know the Dainzenshuu caps them off at a 150 & 120 million each but those numbers don't really make sense given the fatigue and battle damage both of them take which is shown to play a factor both before and after this fight.

Goku - 3 million (arrival on the battlefield)
- 30 million (KKX10)
- 60 million (KKX20 + Kamehameha)
- 1.6 million (Post-KKX20)
- 80 million (Spirit Bomb)
- 1.3 million (Post Spirit Bomb)
- 65 million (Super Saiyan)

Freeza - 3 million (initial)
- 60 million (50%)
- 65 million (temporary boost to counter KKX20)
- 35 million (Post Spirit Bomb)
- 65 million and declining rapidly (Max Power)

bulk freeza was a good deal more powerful than his "50%" state.

[apex_pretador]

I know the Dainzenshuu caps them off at a 150 & 120 million each but those numbers don't really make sense given the fatigue and battle damage both of them take which is shown to play a factor both before and after this fight.

Indeed.
Here's my joke list detailing how it all played out, completely ignoring the official battle powers:

Goku: 3 m.
-Kaio-ken x10: 30 m.
-After getting beaten a lot: 2 m.
--Kaio-ken x20: 40 m.
---Kamehameha: 100 m - KHH gave a ~2.2 boost against Raditz, I theorize Goku has improved it a bit to 2.5x power by his arrival on Namek.

So here is the first time I deviate from the official BPs, as said, if the Kamehameha made Goku's BP become over twice as much against Raditz, I believe it makes sense to think it should be the same or better in later arcs, so it's this much, which of course means Freeza's BP is going to be even higher going by simple A<B logic, but let's just start explaining what happens with Freeza..

Freeza - 4 m - I think Freeza seemed to have the edge at their initial levels, he even felt confident he could fight Goku with no hands, so I give him the credit, required for such a boast.
-50%: 120 m - So here's the major deviation from the established BPs. Freeza could completely nullify the Kamehameha with one hand, which we've only seen Raditz do previously in Z, instead of having it envelop you or blast you away, so I conclude his power must have been greater than the KHH he faced, like Raditz was, but with a smaller gap, as he seemed to struggle a little more than Raditz.

Genkidama: 150 m - Goku only throws the Genkidama, when he thinks it's powerful enough to kill Freeza, so it must at least be a good deal stronger than Freeza.

So now after the Genkidama has been thrown, everyone are almost completely out of power and even Krillin and Gohan can barely fly. Freeza too was affected noticeably...

Freeza(50%, pre Genkidama): 120 m.
-Post Genkidama: 80 m - Freeza himself stated he took a huge amount of damage, but still maintained confidence he could beat Goku and co, which is a given as his BP was still far greater than theirs, but then something unexpected happens..

Super Saiyan Son Goku: 150 m - Goku achieves the legendary form and Freeza's worst nightmare is realized, fortunately he still has some backup power..

Freeza(70%): 112 m.
--100% Power: 160 m - First off, Gohan explicitly remarks that Freeza's ki is getting bigger again. Even with the damage sustained, I must conclude that injured 100% Freeza is stronger than healthy 50% Freeza.

Powerwise Freeza truly is the strongest in the universe, but his muscles hamper his speed, making him slightly slower than Goku and his stamina has taken a hit too, meaning despite being weaker, Goku can eventually turn the tables, just like years later, when Golden Freeza fought Blue Goku. In both instances Goku just got lucky Freeza didn't enjoy a larger gap in power, as that would have meant a quick win for the Tyrant.

Freeza Healthy 100% Power:240 m - Freeza's true unseen power, which would have crushed even the Super Saiyan! He must have been completely convinced he really was operating at his best on Namek, when he returned 2 years later, as he only thought he might defeat Goku, even after powering up or my numbers are just completely wrong

I agree with you.

I think you put 50% freeza a bit too high, as he said he nearly died by KHH , & goku confirmed that he was using 50% only when he survived KHH, implying that he didn't think he could've survived it if he was at 100%.

[apex_pretador]

I agree with you.

I think you put 50% freeza a bit too high, as he said he nearly died by KHH , & goku confirmed that he was using 50% only when he survived KHH, implying that he didn't think he could've survived it if he was at 100%.

Ha, yeah I actually thought I should put it lower, but decided against editing it more. I could see his 100% healthy full power landing at a nice round 200 million and of course his 50% equalling Goku's Kamehameha to better illustrate why he struggled with it.
You think it should be lower than that?

Actually, I'm fine with him being even with the power of KHH , as seeing how piccolo basically tanked his SUper KameHameHa, but goku did think it can finish him off.
Also, one more point, 70% freeza must be atleast equal to , if not bit higher than 50% pre genki dama freeza.

Do you plan to do a list based on these numbers? I think it'll be interesting (my list puts both damaged freeza & goku at 100 million , while healthy freeza above yadrat goku)

[apex_pretador]

Created a formula for power levels:

1. Power levels represent the probability to win a fight (although it also depends on skill & environment etc)

2. Power levels depend on speed , strength , durability

3. What matters in a fight is the relative gap of power levels, not absolute gap. So, a gap of 100 & 120 is similar to 400 & 480.

Formula:

P = (0.5)^Q x 100%

P = probability of the person with lower fighter to win the match

Q = power level factor explained below

Spoiler:

A = PL of stronger fighter
B = PL of weaker fighter

Now, it depends on speed , strength & durability of the fighters
Q = (A/B)^X
X = no of factors in which stronger fighter is superior (speed / strength / durability)

ex - Ginyu vs Goku :

A/B = 1.33
Q = 1.7 (strength / durability)

P = 30.77% (goku had a good chance to get the win)

Freeza vs goku (Daizenshuu)

A/B = 1.25
Q = 1.56 (speed / strength)

P = 33.91% (freeza's chance to win)

inb4 , someone lolololz at this post

[apex_pretador]

Now, go make a game, apex. I thought I could contribute to something with formulas of my own:

I don't have skills to do so

Power = Strength * Agility / Energy

.

WHAT? energy is DIRECTLY PROPORTIONAL to power.
Strength x speed can be called power though.

[apex_pretador]

I do like how Dessasina's calculations for FPSS works nicely with the whole less energy consumed leading to more power, but otherwise I too find it a weird calculation, as it doesn't show, why SS 3 Goku runs out of energy so fast compared to SS and SS 2.
I'd think it'd make more sense to have it be for every increase in power, the increase in stamina must be the same, otherwise the power can't be sustained for as long.

I too have tried working out a more stats based power level guide and the way it'd work you'd have race specific factors, that for example had one race naturally superior in one field compared to another(fx Butta being the fastest of the Ginyu Force, other than Ginyu, because of the mutation in his race, where the others are more balanced). There'd also be factors due to changes in the body, most prominently exemplified with the bulky forms both in Super Saiyans and other races and the Ozaru form as well.
The main stats would be Strength, Speed and Stamina, but I'd probably need a bit more.

Durability

[apex_pretador]

Babidi weaker than farmer ? Interesting putting all them at 4's but shouldn't you put him at 400 something?

[apex_pretador]

- The only real problem I have with your list is making 100% Freeza above SS Goku. Not only is it not supported by anything from the series, but it kind of detracts from Goku's transformation and the resulting fight as a whole. Thematically, the purpose of the fight was to show that Goku had surpassed Freeza, not that he only beat him because Freeza was tired.

Goku was the better fighter

[apex_pretador]

A PL list ignoring the numbers for BoZ (It seems popular , so I'll try)
The numbers used for AFTER nappa fight are the same as my canon numbers (in signature)

DB hunt

Spoiler:

Goku - 16
Yamcha - 14
ChiChi - 12
Bear thief - 10
Ozaru goku - 170
Bulma - 2
Krillin - 13

21st TB

Spoiler:

Yamcha - 32
Krillin's bully oorin temple - 23
Krillin - 43
Bacterian - 26
Gilan - 32
Nam - 43
Goku - 50 , 52 (tail)
Jacky chun - 52
Ranfan - 6
Lunch - 8

RRA arc

Spoiler:

Goku - 55
#8 - 60
Metallitron - 51

Krillin - 40
Goku - 58
Blue - 52

Tao - 80
Bora - 60
Goku (post karin) - 95
Karin (suppressed) - 100

Baba arc:

Spoiler:

Goku - 95
Yamcha - 34
Krillin - 41
Dracula - 25
Invisible man - 26
Bandage man - 55
Akkuman - 69
Gohan - 78 (he knew goku's fighting style)

Goku - 90 (tailless)

22nd TB

Spoiler:

Roshi - 145 (a bit above BoZ)
Tien (FP) - 160
Goku - 150 , FP 160
Krillin - 120
Yamcha - 110
Chaotzu - 78
Pamput - 34
Tsuresenin - 120

King chappa - 65
Nam - 45
[/spoiler

Daimao arc:

Spoiler:

Tamburine - 140
Yajirobe - 165
Goku - 165 (zenkai)

Old daimao (suppressed) - 190
Old daimao FP - 250

Young daimao - 350 , FP - 480
Tien (trained) - 174
Drum - 240

Goku - 520
Popo - 600

Kami - 1000

23rd TB

Spoiler:

Roshi - 142
Chiatzu - 100
Yajirobe - 160
Yamcha - 360
Cyborg tao - 260
Krillin - 450
Tien - 579
Goku (weight) - 550 , unweighted - 650
Shen - 500 , FP - 760 , Kami - 1030
Piccolo - 1300 , FP - 1650
Goku - 1700

Raditz

Spoiler:

Roshi - 139
Farmer - 4

Yamcha - 400
Krillin - 600
Tien - 800

Kami - 1030

Goku - 2160 , KHH - 2624
Piccolo - 2080 , SBC - 2990
Gohan - 1 , 1307 , 2800

Raditz - 2700

Nappa battle

Spoiler:

Yajirobe - 1300
Chiaotzu - 1300 , Self destruct - 5500
Gohan - 2500 , 5800 (enraged)
Krillin - 3300 ,
Tien - 3600 , Kikoho - 4400
Piccolo - 4500

Nappa - 6500
Goku - over 8000

Vegeta battle & so on - same as canon list , except krillin & gohan are a bit higher initially.

[apex_pretador]

Nappa is 4000.
All your power levels contradict the official ones from Daizenshuus.

I already mentioned it "Ignoring official numbers list (It seems popular here, so i'll try)

[apex_pretador]

What level would be appropriate for Tien during the 23rd Budokai?

He was able to give weighted Goku a good fight and appeared to be on a whole different level compared to the others. When going by the beginning of Z, he was read at 250, so he'd most likely have to be somewhere in the middle of that during the 23rd Budokai. The only thing we really know is that Tien's inferior to Goku, Piccolo, and Kami during the 23rd Budokai and early Z. Just wondering what the consensus is on his power.

I have him at 225 , dead even with mr PoPo

Kami is 260-270 while piccolo-goku are in low 300s.

(Young daimao = 196 for reference)