Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:04 pm

Gorou wrote: Saiyan beyond god = Base with God Ki = SSJGod (same power according to Beerus) --- subsequent transformation = SSJB
When did beerus state such a thing? Hell, when was the term "saiyan beyond god" even mentioned?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 04, 2016 2:14 pm

Gorou wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:
Gorou wrote: Saiyan beyond god = Base with God Ki = SSJGod (same power according to Beerus) --- subsequent transformation = SSJB
When did beerus state such a thing? Hell, when was the term "saiyan beyond god" even mentioned?
Beerus to Goku, after he lost his SSJGod stage: Your power is not decreased
that was SUPER SAIYAN goku, not base goku
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 04, 2016 3:04 pm

Hugo Boss wrote:"Saiyan Beyond God" or "Saiyan Who Has Surpassed God" are terms used in Dragon Ball Heroes to describe Goku's form after he absorbed the power of Super Saiyan God into his body. Although in the anime we can't really tell the difference, the movies and the games seem to distinguish "Saiyan Beyond God" and "Base" forms, specially Goku's. In both forms, Goku's ki is normal and, while the movies and the games aren't clear, Super Saiyan Blue has godly ki in the anime. Super Saiyan has normal ki and while we have nothing saying godly ki users will always have superior power, we know that Golden Freeza had normal ki in the movie, while the anime isn't clear about that.
In anime, everyone sensed freeza
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed Mar 09, 2016 7:37 am

ThePiccolo wrote:Just a quick question for you guys so I can make an accurate placement of these characters. If Beerus is 1000 on this scale, what would you estimate these characters are? (Goku, Vegeta and Piccolo are their tournament level)

Goku - 6
SSJ - 300

Vegeta - 5.99
SSJ - 299.5

Piccolo - 1 , makankosappo - 50

Champa -992

Vados - No idea, over 1600

First Form Frost - 0.9
Assault Form- 6
Final Form - 9

Botamo - Too low to read on this scale

And we do not have any accurate means to gauge these 3 characters' strengths, but what would you assume them to be?

Magetta - 27

Cabba - 2

Hit - 1999
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 11, 2016 4:50 am

goku and especially vegeta only has god ki in SSB form. Everyone was able to sense their ki vs freeza, and commented on how big it was.

Gohan should be stronger than mystic gohan, otherwise he'd not "I'm so excited to show you the results of my training"

Final form frost must be MUCH weaker than SS goku
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 11, 2016 5:52 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:goku ad especially vegeta only has god ki in SSB form
1st Form Freeza was causally torturing SSj Gohan who is about the same league as his Ultimate self and the same Freeza need his Final Form to be equal to Base Goku.
krillin was sensing goku
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 11, 2016 6:11 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote: 1st Form Freeza was causally torturing SSj Gohan who is about the same league as his Ultimate self and the same Freeza need his Final Form to be equal to Base Goku.
krillin was sensing goku
Goten can sense the SSj Goku that went toe to toe with Beerus either.
exactly, he doesn't have "GOD KI" in SS form either
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sun Mar 13, 2016 3:30 am

Zombie wrote:Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?
5-10%. The gap wasn't that big. Piccolo was the superior fighter.

Cell : 160-170
Piccolo : 180-185 , FP : 200
Cell : 250
SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
DanielSSJ wrote:
Zombie wrote:Gap between Imperfect Cell and weighted Piccolo?
I hardly ever give Piccolo a weighted number anymore, but I guess if I had too...

-Piccolo (weighted) - 315
--full power - 360

-Cell - 280

-Android 17 - 360
-Android 16 - 330
Android 16 is weaker that 17 ?
probably he meant android 18?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Tue Mar 15, 2016 10:06 am

dead even
Both at 3.5 M , goku (base) pre freeza fight = 3.1 M , while turning SS = 4 M
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Re: Uni 6 and Uni 7 power chains

Post by apex_pretador » Fri Mar 18, 2016 11:47 am

in decreasing order of power:

Beerus
_________________
SSB = Golden freeza
SSB (RoF)
SSG
Super Saiyan goku / vegeta
(??? Super Vegetto ???)
Final form frost full power
Base goku / 3rd form frost
Final form freeza
(??? Super vegetto ???)
3rd form freeza , tired frost
Buuhan
1st form frost , Piccolo , Gohan
1st form freeza , Super buu
Fat buu , SS gohan , Botamo
Tagoma FP , Ginyu tagoma , SPC ,
RoF piccolo & gohan


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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 19, 2016 4:10 am

Zombie wrote:Let's see how this goes. I tried a list where base Godku was as close as possible to Oob.
I don'tknow where the idea of two bases coming from, but here are the issues:
  • In U6 arc, if Super Saiyan Goku is so much weaker than base goku from RoF, then why didn't anyone notice? Neither piccolo, nor krillin? No one commented on it.
  • Goku calls frost really strong. If, by your numbers , he is close to cell, why wouldn't he call him trash like dabura?
  • Seeing RoF piccolo at 2.5 Bil, where would you put FP cell? around 4 Billion ? there is no way that goku will flat out tell piccolo that he has no chance against that level of enemy.
  • Base gotenks is heavliy implied to be stronger than piccolo, even pre rosat. Post rosat is pretty clear. Also, base gotenks is HEAVILY implied to be above SS kids. However, I guess you try to use mulipliers & not put much into it. So, it is OK but multipliers don't justify everything.
  • Gohan (base) is heavily implied to be around piccolo or above. No way can he be only at 100 million. Again
    Herms' strength checker wrote:Chapter 343 (DBZ 149), P8.2-4
    No.19: “Seems you’ve been watching things all along, but you missed hearing the most important thing. Vegeta, we already know all about your battle techniques.”
    Vegeta: “Even so, you looked pretty surprised when Kakarot became a Super Saiyan…In other words, your data from the battle with Freeza up to the present is estimated…We Saiyans can’t be understood just by calculations…
  • I find it hard to believe fat buu being that close to final form freeza. Imagine, all it takes to defeat post training freeza, tagoma , ginyu etc is to wake up fat buu? :mrgreen: :mrgreen: :mrgreen:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 19, 2016 11:45 am

DanielSSJ wrote:
Base gotenks is heavliy implied to be stronger than piccolo, even pre rosat. Post rosat is pretty clear. Also, base gotenks is HEAVILY implied to be above SS kids. However, I guess you try to use mulipliers & not put much into it. So, it is OK but multipliers don't justify everything.
Considering base Gotenks doesn't actually do anything worth talking about, people can interpret his strength anyway they want to. If you want base Gotenks to be above Piccolo, that's fine, but you can really contradict othet people with differing opinions because there's hardly any evidence.
  • SS trunks & goten know they don't stand a chance against fat buu, but base gotenks thinks he can win. This implies that base gotenks > SS trunks atleast.
  • Krillin thinks that he "may just pull it off"
  • Piccolo seems to be unable to catch gotenks going off to fight buu
  • Everyone calls base gotenks incredible
  • In the RoSaT, base gotenks is shocked that his attacks aren't damaging buu, and said he powered up greatly (which piccolo agreed). If he is weaker than SS kids, why will he be shocked?
  • Piccolo didn't even know that gotenks can transform, and still thought that they were his last hope. If he was 10x than base gotenks, why will he put his hopes in him?
  • Again, I'm not a fan of guidebooks , but they seemingly do mention him surpassing majin vegeta in rosat. SS gotenks (pre) can't be weaker than Majin vegeta, so base gotenks (pre) is, and post rosat gotenks surpassed him. But again, only if you go by guides.
I see, 7 points to put him above SS trunks, (6 if we not count guides) , implications that he is stronger than even piccolo.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sat Mar 19, 2016 12:54 pm

Well you did interpret them in a different way as you said
people can interpret his strength anyway they want to
but, if SS trunks at 55 & goten at 50 have ZERO chance against majin vegeta, (and they know that) , and majin vegeta was stomped by buu, then it is hard to believe that base gotenks is like a 15 or 20 and is willing to fight buu and thinks he can win.
It is like saying that goku SS is weaker than cell, but he thinks his base form + KK x20 can finish the job. Yes, gotenks is arrogant, but not THAT much. He didn't brag out of nowhere, his SS3 seemed to finish buu off. He even destroyed him in regular SS form.(although buu wasn't fully serious)
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Sun Mar 20, 2016 11:02 pm

ThePiccolo wrote:I've decided to redo bits of my power level list. Feedback is welcome.

Saiyan Saga
Namek Saga
Frieza Saga
Trunks Saga
Android Saga
Cell Saga
Cell Games
The Future
OtherWorld
Majin Buu Saga
Fusion Saga

kid buu THAT much weaker than goku? :shock: :shock: :shock:
Kid buu was playing around the entire time against a serious goku who was going all out from the start, and goku could do nothing but barely fight back on par with him.

Also, kid buu >> Evil buu (skinny) as implied by vegeta.

Skinny buu can't be above suppressed SS3 goku, who was felt at kaioshin planet. If he was, everyone at kaioshin planet would've noticed.

Also , fat buu never powered-up after fighting majin vegeta before his split. So, buu against majin vegeta = against goku.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Mon Mar 21, 2016 11:34 pm

Darkron2151 wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:
Skinny buu can't be above suppressed SS3 goku, who was felt at kaioshin planet. If he was, everyone at kaioshin planet would've noticed.
Keep in mind, Kid Buu was able to sense just regular SSJ Goku and Vegeta while they where in the Kaioshin realm.
kid buu didn't use IT to go there.
He used kaioshin's technique, which directly teleports from planet to planet. For all we know , he could have gone to the planet his last rampage was on. Kid buu is insane, we can't predict what he'll do.
ahill1 wrote:
ekrolo2 wrote:
ahill1 wrote:Very good point Kaboom. But was not Gotenks SSJ sensed from the Kaioshin realm too?
Nope, Gotenks isn't sensed in the Kaioshin realm until he and Piccolo escape when he's SSJ3.
What about this?

Son Goku: Say... have you noticed... that Boo's chi is gone?
Kaioshin: ...Oh... you're right...!!
Kibito: Does that mean...?!
Son Goku: ...I don't know... I don't feel the kids fused chi either... but they haven't fought yet... why would their chi disappear...?
Goku felt the huge ki of super buu, and after about 1 hr, it suddenly disappeared.
He said that because it is mysterious that buu's ki just vanished and the ki of his supposed opponent (gotenks) isn't even there.

it is like goku doesn't even know why'd buu's ki disappear when no one can kill him.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Tue Mar 22, 2016 2:13 am

Kamiccolo9 wrote:
apex_pretador wrote:
Darkron2151 wrote:
Keep in mind, Kid Buu was able to sense just regular SSJ Goku and Vegeta while they where in the Kaioshin realm.
kid buu didn't use IT to go there.
He used kaioshin's technique, which directly teleports from planet to planet. For all we know , he could have gone to the planet his last rampage was on. Kid buu is insane, we can't predict what he'll do.
You literally see Buu looking around for Goku and Vegeta, sensing them, grinning, and teleporting. What technique he used is irrelevant. The fact is that he sensed them.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed Mar 23, 2016 2:26 am

ahill1 wrote:
kid buu didn't use IT to go there.
He used kaioshin's technique, which directly teleports from planet to planet. For all we know , he could have gone to the planet his last rampage was on. Kid buu is insane, we can't predict what he'll do.

The technique he used to teleport is irrelevant, as he would not know where they went without sensing them.
Kid Boo looks around, then grins when he found them.
oh man, please read the post.

What to say he is searching for them ? Can you predict kid buu?
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:01 am

Desassina wrote:Here's a description of the Saiyans' battle ever since it started:

Earthlings vs the Saibamen
I'll edit this post to describe Nappa's battle with numbers in the future.

Goku vs Vegeta
You have lowered vegeta's power too much BEFORE beam struggle. It makes no sense for vegeta to be 6000 & galick gun to be 16,000. I think you must put pre-beam struggle vegeta at about 16000 & galick gun at either same or 18000 with goku being equal to him.

Also, you are neglecting the MASSIVE power loss of vegeta due to beam struggle. Then the drop of power from moon was also significant.
Then the damage taken in Ozaru is OK i guess, as it wasn't much. Also, vegeta must take a huge drop in power AFTER tail cutting. Everytime an ozaru gets tail cut, his power drops massively, and mostly falls unconscious.

Then the incredible power loss from spirit bomb, and the fight against ozaru gohan gohan falling on him.


I'll put these like this:
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed Mar 23, 2016 9:27 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:My updated list.Its just the Saiyan,Namek and Freeza Arc for now.Please give me feedbacks so i can improve it. :)
This is great list man :thumbup:

A few picks (nitpicks)
  • The difference between first form freeza & vegeta must be larger.
    Piccolo said there were 3 large ki's & one incredibly absturdly huge ki of freeza. Freeza said he is a dinosaur compared to 3 ants. Vegeta said "they have a slight chance" if they all work together.
  • The difference between initial true form freeza & pre-death vegeta must also be bigger. Vegeta has shown to be good at closing close power gaps with his fighting abilities (vs 18 , fat buu etc) and freeza completely humiliated him.
  • Since you are doing it in parts, it would be great if you add battle damage in freeza-goku battle. Like KHH, spirit bomb & so.
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Re: The Official Unofficial Power Levels Thread

Post by apex_pretador » Wed Mar 23, 2016 11:11 am

SSJ3 Vegeta wrote:
  • You're right.I changed it.I think a 30+% would be neat.
  • Freeza said he raised his speed a bit,thats why Vegeta cant catch him.And after he realized how Freeza is still superior to him,he pretty much gave up and let Freeza kick his ass.And 20% gap is a huge gap.Like the gap between Monster Zarbon and Pre Zenkai Vegeta in my list.
    Chapter: 305 (DBZ 111), P13.4
    Context: Vegeta can’t follow Freeza’s movement
    Freeza: “I get just a little serious and raise my speed, and it seems that you can’t keep up with me…Are you really a Super Saiyan?...”
    Vegeta: “I'm-impossible…”
  • I have the Genki Dama,what is KKH ? If you mean the x20 Kamehameha,i don't there should be a need for it since it should be the same as his Kaioken x20 self.
Exactly, 350k-400k fits fine IMO.

Oh, so freeza did speed up.I was under the impression that freeza didn't speed up. (I remembered the quote like "IF I get serious". In that case, it seems perfectly fine.

KHH is kamehameha, and KKH is kamekameha (goten). Oh, and I was talking about battle damage anyways.
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