Official Unofficial Power Level Discussion Thread

[apex_pretador]

No it doesn't.
The evidence is clear. If you don't offer up any proof I'm not going to dignify this with a response. Particularly because I really hate the "he was suppressed!" argument that everyone makes with no backing about every scene that they don't like.

he is not even fighting back, the evidence is clear. This is the same situation as trunks vs vegeta

Wrong. He wasn't fighting back at that moment because Uub is stronger than him, strong enough to force him on the defensive. On the very next page he tries to attack Uub only to be countered. You still no evidence.
Vegeta wasn't holding back either.

I give you a point for that, I should've checked it out before commenting.

Howevr, this still doesn't put uub (kid buu) above goku, because it is the same as goten vs gohan, where gohan is obviously stronger. Also, never once did anyone comment or get shocked that uub's ki is equal to or above goku, and this is a thing worthy of a comment if it happened.

[apex_pretador]

Howevr, this still doesn't put uub (kid buu) above goku, because it is the same as goten vs gohan, where gohan is obviously stronger.

Gohan never tried to hit back. Goku did.

Spoiler:

Everyone acts really shocked by Uub's power actually, and comment on how enormous it is. Look at their faces in the scan I posted.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P10.6
Context: as Goku and Oob fight
Kuririn: “Yo-you’re kidding…!?”
Gohan: “Wh-what is that kid…!?”

That shock is due to the fact that he has kid buu level ki, not that his ki is bigger than goku.
A random 10 year old kid arrives the battle field and while fighting goku, powers up to kid buu level, wouldn't they be shocked?
There is not a single comment on his ki being close to goku, let alone above it.

The only one who actually says anything more specific than a generic "unbelievable..." or "wow..." is Goku saying that he's exactly as amazing as he thought he'd be- in other words, as strong as Pure Buu.

exactly, which goku handled pretty easily.

Chapter: 519 (DBZ 325), P12.2-5
Context: Oob is surprised by Goku’s Bukujutsu
Goku: “Oh, I see. You still don’t even know how to fly, huh? …I guess there ain’t no helping it. You haven’t had no teacher, and you probably never even considered things like that. Sorry I bad-mouthed you before. Please forgive me. I just wanted to know your true ability. You’re exactly the person I thought you were. As amazin’ as I expected."

Indication that goku was not fighting seriously.

And I still believe that "Goku was suppressed" card will be used when EoZ will take place in super. It was not necessary when the end of manga took place and was left as such. However, now, we'll see what happens when the DBS reaches that point or crosses it.

[apex_pretador]

-snip-

1. Gohan isn't attacking here, he's blocking with his legs.

2. Gohan easily blocks numerous blows from Goten; he does not attempt to block one and then badly hurt his arm.

3. Don't post these please, they're against the rules.

1. He is attacking with left arm.

2. OK

3. What? You just posted one above.


Also, I'll hold on this debate for some time, till some more clarification.

[apex_pretador]

Batman: 94

Batman = beyond infinite.

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

Spoiler:

because

[apex_pretador]

If high battle power is required to sense Beerus and Whis' ki.Then Base Vegeta and Goku is stronger than SSJ3 Goku.

Piccolo could sense Kaioshin's ki, and he had godly ki. Sensing god ki is about more than just raw strength. Having a high power level = sensing god ki doesn't even make sense anyway. Whis seemed to be referring to Goku and Vegeta transitioning into using godly ki, not just getting a higher power level.

Because he was part Kami,that's why he could sense him.Golden Freeza,Hit and Cabba can sense god ki,those three aren't gods.But they're powerful.

piccolo can't sense god ki according to DBS / BoG

[apex_pretador]

Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.

Nappa implied that he can take "5000" goku if he killed gohan & Krillin & Piccolo, but if they are alive, then he will have trouble.

He is definitely much below 8000 for sure. He didn't even believe in "8000+" so him fighting goku and thinking he can win doesn't prove anything.
He should be slightly above 5000 IMO.

[apex_pretador]

Can't take credit for this argument, but something Super Saiyan Turlast x4 brought up was that Krillin still considered Nappa's battle power "beyond belief" (or something like that) even after sensing Goku's 5,000. I'm pretty sure that that'd at least prove Nappa > 5,000.

Nappa implied that he can take "5000" goku if he killed gohan & Krillin & Piccolo, but if they are alive, then he will have trouble.

He is definitely much below 8000 for sure. He didn't even believe in "8000+" so him fighting goku and thinking he can win doesn't prove anything.
He should be slightly above 5000 IMO.

You'd be surprised, but I think I saw someone say that Nappa's full strength would've been around 12,000.

I think I've seen it somewhere too.
I've seen vegeta's power around 37000 also (while firing galick gun)

[apex_pretador]

I probably already asked it, but I'd like to see your numbers again:

Future Android #17
Future Android #18

Trunks SSJ (Androids saga)
Goku SSJ (Androids saga)
Vegeta SSJ (Androids saga)

Imperfect Cell (Ginger Town)

I probably already answered but:

Future 17 = 170 million
Future 18 = 165 million

Trunks = 125 million
Goku = 150 million
Vegeta = 150 million

Imperfect cell = 165 million

[apex_pretador]

I put him at 180,000 because I like having the power levels of Babidi's fighters be similar to the previous arc villains.

Pui Pui = Oozaru Vegeta

Yakon = base Freeza

Dabra = Perfect Cell

Then pui pui must be more around 18000, because:


Pui Pui = base vegeta (non-ozaru)

Yakon = base freeza (non full-power)

Dabra = base Perfect cell (Non super perfect)

What are your numbers for Pui Pui?

1,000,000,000. (Equal to Android saga SS Vegeta.)

isn't it a bit too low?

That is so sad it's hilarious haha. DanielSSJ report his ass.

I have Pui Pui a little higher than first form Freeza to give Babidi's "Only recruits the strongest warriors in the universe" line some validation.

Lately I put him at 720,000.

The top 5 strongest in universe before namek arc were:


Freeza - 120 M
Cold - MUCH, MUCH less than 120 M, but MUCH, MUCH more than 2 M
Yakon - probably below cold
Ginyu - 120,000
Nail - 42,000

out of which 4 exist no more.
Even cui was in the strongest beings of the universe. (top 15)








With that all said, I have him at 18,200 - exact equal to cui

[apex_pretador]

1,000,000,000. (Equal to Android saga SS Vegeta.)

isn't it a bit too low?

Did you mean high? I don't think I've ever seen anyone on this site besides ahill1 try to argue for Pocus being that strong.

Obviously that's ridiculously high. A being who bragged about being strongest in a 10g planet vs the strongest in the universe - the result must be clear. You have him 8x Freeza?

1,000,000,000 is the number I have for buu arc SS goku

[apex_pretador]

After a long thought, I've finally decided to do a proper power level list for super.

Initial considerations:

Beerus' power level could be incorrect, because, well, just because.
It includes both manga and anime, considering both of them, no ridiculous two base theory.

Some inconsistencies will be ignored.

Multipliers:

- Super saiyan = 25x base
- Super Saiyan (mastered) = 50x base
- x10 Kaioken = 10x power level


Quick references:
Namek Freeza (healthy, 100%) = 120,000,000

Perfect cell (full power) = 1,200,000,000

Kid buu (serious) = 12,000,000,000

Buuhan = 45,000,000,000

SS vegetto = 200,000,000,000
Battle of gods arc:

Piccolo (weights) = 700,000,000
Gohan = 25,000,000,000 (FP)
Gotenks = 7,000,000,000 (SS) , 21,000,000,000 (SS3)
SS3 goku = 28,000,000,000
SS2 Vegeta = 7,000,000,000 , Enraged = 140,000,000,000 , Galick gun = 160,000,000,000
Fat buu = 5,600,000,000
Beerus (suppresed) = 65,000,000,000 , goku's expectation = 300,000,000,000 , power up = 940,000,000,000
Goku (everyone's ki) = 200,000,000,000
SSG Goku = 1,000,000,000,000 (initial) , 4,500,000,000,000 (FP)
Beerus (powered up) = 5,000,000,000,000
SS Goku = 4,400,000,000,000 (Drawing out SSG powers) , base = 20,000,000,000
Base goku (punching the ki ball) = 4,500,000,000,000

Freeza arc
Vegeta (goku's arrival) = 20,000,000,000

Piccolo (weights) = 700,000,000
Tagoma = 1,800,000,000
Ginyu = 2,000,000,000
SS Gotenks = 7,000,000,000
Gohan = 240,000,000 , SS Gohan = 6,000,000,000 , Ki decreased = 4,000,000,000
Freeza = 6,000,000,000 (Manageable for buu & Gohan or gotenks alone)
Final form freeza = 35,000,000,000 = Base goku / vegeta

Golden freeza = 8,000,000,000,000 , tired = 3,000,000,000,000
SSB = 7,000,000,000,000

Universe 6 tournament arc:

Piccolo = 3,000,000,000 , Makankosappo = 60,000,000,000
Base Goku = Vegeta = Cabba = 40,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Cabba = 1,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan vegeta = 2,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue = 8,000,000,000,000

Frost = 10,000,000,000 , Assault form = 36,000,000,000 , Final form = 70,000,000,000 , Tired = 45,000,000,000
(NOTE: Frost stated that he won't hold back against vegeta, which makes me believe he was holding back against piccolo)
Hit = 4,000,000,000,000 (Heavily suppressed)
Hit = 9,000,000,000,000 (initial, suppressed) , 18,000,000,000,000 (improved) , 23,000,000,000,000 (Improved again) , 28,000,000,000,000 (Fully improved)

SSB Goku Kaioken x10 = 80,000,000,000,000 (Initial) , 55,000,000,000,000 (After Kamehameha) , 40,000,000,000,000 (Tired against hit, just before give up)

Gods of destruction:
Beerus = 9,400,000,000,000 (regular power) , 200,000,000,000,000 (True power of god of destruction)
Champa = 8,000,000,000,000 (regular power) , 180,000,000,000,000 (True power of god of destruction)




Feedback will be appreciated, and dealt with appropriate responses.

[apex_pretador]

Spoiler:

After a long thought, I've finally decided to do a proper power level list for super.

Initial considerations:

Beerus' power level could be incorrect, because, well, just because.
It includes both manga and anime, considering both of them, no ridiculous two base theory.

Some inconsistencies will be ignored.

Multipliers:

- Super saiyan = 25x base
- Super Saiyan (mastered) = 50x base
- x10 Kaioken = 10x power level


Quick references:
Namek Freeza (healthy, 100%) = 120,000,000

Perfect cell (full power) = 1,200,000,000

Kid buu (serious) = 12,000,000,000

Buuhan = 45,000,000,000

SS vegetto = 200,000,000,000
Battle of gods arc:

Piccolo (weights) = 700,000,000
Gohan = 25,000,000,000 (FP)
Gotenks = 7,000,000,000 (SS) , 21,000,000,000 (SS3)
SS3 goku = 28,000,000,000
SS2 Vegeta = 7,000,000,000 , Enraged = 140,000,000,000 , Galick gun = 160,000,000,000
Fat buu = 5,600,000,000
Beerus (suppresed) = 65,000,000,000 , goku's expectation = 300,000,000,000 , power up = 940,000,000,000
Goku (everyone's ki) = 200,000,000,000
SSG Goku = 1,000,000,000,000 (initial) , 4,500,000,000,000 (FP)
Beerus (powered up) = 5,000,000,000,000
SS Goku = 4,400,000,000,000 (Drawing out SSG powers) , base = 20,000,000,000
Base goku (punching the ki ball) = 4,500,000,000,000

Freeza arc
Vegeta (goku's arrival) = 20,000,000,000

Piccolo (weights) = 700,000,000
Tagoma = 1,800,000,000
Ginyu = 2,000,000,000
SS Gotenks = 7,000,000,000
Gohan = 240,000,000 , SS Gohan = 6,000,000,000 , Ki decreased = 4,000,000,000
Freeza = 6,000,000,000 (Manageable for buu & Gohan or gotenks alone)
Final form freeza = 35,000,000,000 = Base goku / vegeta

Golden freeza = 8,000,000,000,000 , tired = 3,000,000,000,000
SSB = 7,000,000,000,000

Universe 6 tournament arc:

Piccolo = 3,000,000,000 , Makankosappo = 60,000,000,000
Base Goku = Vegeta = Cabba = 40,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Cabba = 1,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan vegeta = 2,000,000,000,000
Super Saiyan Blue = 8,000,000,000,000

Frost = 10,000,000,000 , Assault form = 36,000,000,000 , Final form = 70,000,000,000 , Tired = 45,000,000,000
(NOTE: Frost stated that he won't hold back against vegeta, which makes me believe he was holding back against piccolo)
Hit = 4,000,000,000,000 (Heavily suppressed)
Hit = 9,000,000,000,000 (initial, suppressed) , 18,000,000,000,000 (improved) , 23,000,000,000,000 (Improved again) , 28,000,000,000,000 (Fully improved)

SSB Goku Kaioken x10 = 80,000,000,000,000 (Initial) , 55,000,000,000,000 (After Kamehameha) , 40,000,000,000,000 (Tired against hit, just before give up)

Gods of destruction:
Beerus = 9,400,000,000,000 (regular power) , 200,000,000,000,000 (True power of god of destruction)
Champa = 8,000,000,000,000 (regular power) , 180,000,000,000,000 (True power of god of destruction)




Feedback will be appreciated, and dealt with appropriate responses.

Did a quick skim through.

SSJ Goku (everyone's ki) >>> SSJ3 or SSJ Vegetto
Why is base Goku (punching ki ball) >>>>> base Goku?
base Gohan >>> RoF Piccolo
first form Freeza should be higher relative to SSJ Gohan
U6 arc Piccolo is way, way too low

Why should Goku (everyone's ki) be above SS3 vegetto? Anyways, I'll have no problem bumping him upto like 400 billion or so.

He was drawing out the powers of SSG during the entire fight, the same powers which he absorbed during the fight. In SS form, he was drawing like over 90% of SSG power, but that wasn't enough to punch away that ki ball. However, while he punched the ball in base, I see it as a moment where he draws 100% of SSG in one shot and fainting from the consequence.

I don't think base gohan should be above piccolo. The only "hint" is tagoma moving from an off-guard ki blast of gohan, and not moving from piccolo's punch. But that can be explained from it being off-guard hit.
Piccolo volunteered to fight tagoma after hearing he's as strong as gohan's current best.

I thought a lot about it , and what I realized is, there was not a single word about 1st F being above fat buu / Gotenks etc, and the opposite is implied. However, it is HEAVILY implied that gohan can't maintain his super saiyan power for long. So, after two-shotting ginyu, his power decreased heavily, from being near equal to first form freeza to being fodder to him.
However, I can decrease gohan (post drain) even further.

This is probably the highest I can see him WITHOUT a single comment about powering up. At best, I can put him up to 4 billion or 5 billion. It is heavily implied that he is well below even base saiyans.

[apex_pretador]

How strong are those failed fusions of Gotenks?

Fat gotenks is strong, stronger than base kids likely. I'd put him around 70% Freeza level at best to half of base goten at worst.
Skinny gotenks is fodder tier / chiatzu level at best to fodder tier / Cyborg tao level at worst.

Veku / fat gogeta is stronger than base gotenks for sure. He would be around SS2 vegeta level IMO.

Let's discuss Super Boo. If one goes by the logic that SSJ Gotenks was at the very least in the same realm as Majin Boo. Then how did Super Boo obtained the power to compete with an even stronger Gotenks at SSJ3?
Isn't an immense gain when he just absorbed Mr.Boo?

I'm struggling with this. I would appreciate to hear some opinions, with the numbers to paint the picture.

I'd like to add my opinion on this:

Gotenks did gain massive power in ROSAT, but the boost buu got was even bigger.
I'd say gotenks was a little weaker than fat buu before rosat, and somewhat stronger than fat buu post rosat.

However, super buu was significantly troubled by SS gotenks alone, who hurt him thrice. I would say buu is significantly stronger than SS gotenks , but not by a one-shot margin.

On the other hand, SS3 gotenks vs super buu was a complete stomp in gotenks' favour. Gotenks dominated super buu, buu didn't contend with him, AT ALL.

[apex_pretador]

I'd like to add my opinion on this:

Gotenks did gain massive power in ROSAT, but the boost buu got was even bigger.
I'd say gotenks was a little weaker than fat buu before rosat, and somewhat stronger than fat buu post rosat.

However, super buu was significantly troubled by SS gotenks alone, who hurt him thrice. I would say buu is significantly stronger than SS gotenks , but not by a one-shot margin.

On the other hand, SS3 gotenks vs super buu was a complete stomp in gotenks' favour. Gotenks dominated super buu, buu didn't contend with him, AT ALL.

Super Boo is stronger than SSJ Gotenks. The later combined with Piccolo didn't have enough power to open a dimensional hole, while Super Boo could.

I think you need to re-read my post.
I see it like this:
SS gotenks vs buu ~= Goku vs Perfect cell (FP)
SS3 gotenks vs buu ~= Gohan vs buu ~= Gohan SS2 vs FP Cell

Super buu never kept up with SS3 gotenks, who completely destroyed him. Actually, unlike gohan, Gotenks would've completely annihilated if not for his time limit.

Now, the theory for super buu's power up is :

It isn't logical to multiply two character's power together. Math just doesn't work like that. For example, if Pure Boo was a 40 instead of a 4, and Dai Kaioshin was a 4 instead of a 0.4, then Good Boo would be a 160. You can't multiply abstract things like a person's strength by anouther person's strength. You can add the two together or you can multiply it by an mathmatical integer, but you can't multiply the two together. Its the same reason why "Vegetto = Goku x Vegeta" doesn't work.

With addition, you have to make even more conditions for when Dai Kaioshin subtracts instead, even if it should be the same for Piccolo and the kids... It's confusing to say the least.

To solve your confusion,

I think that dai kaioshin's absorption works more like fusion, than rather than addition type. He goes to buff buu, then he fuses and forms an entirely new different being, with mind, heart, sense and both good and evil present. This is fat buu. He is extremely powerful due to incredible power of dai kaioshin, but dai kaioshin restricted a huge portion of his evilness, and his incredible power reserve of kid buu.
However, when he gets mad, dai kaioshin's hold on fat buu loosens , and fat buu becomes able to tap into the power of kid buu a bit.
So, fat buu (when he came out) was weaker than Majin vegeta and SS2 goku as they lol'd at his power. Then he gets a little serious, and taps the accessible kid buu's reserve he has, and powers up to a point that it worries goku & vegeta, and scares gohan. This is fat buu's max power without getting angry without kaoishin's hold on him loosening. Majin vegeta is able to thrash him around. They seem around the same level of power.
When fat buu powers up again even further, he is tapping into more of kid buu's power, due to his anger making the restriction of kaioshin weaker, which happens when steams come out of his head.

When fat buu gets fully mad, kaioshin's hold on his evilness breaks, but his restriction on the power of kid buu is still present. The freed evilness takes a form of skinny buu, and it is not able to access the power of kid buu due to the fact that restriction is still present.

To remove the restriction, evil buu absorbs fat buu and then becomes super buu, an incredible power, who is able to tap into 100% of kid buu's power AND the power of fat buu (the fusion of buu-material and dai-kaioshin) at the same time, and that's why he's so strong.

On buff buu, he is unrestrained kid buu with power of south kaioshin added.

Kid buu is, ....... kid buu

(Wow, I nailed it, a huge post on buu)

TLDR:

Fat buu = Fusion of buu and dai kaioshin , can access to some of kid buu's power via rage (pre split)
Kid buu = kid buu
Skinny buu = somewhat stronger than fat buu
Super buu = Kid buu's 100% power + Fat buu's power
Buff buu = Kid buu's 100% power + South kaioshin's power

Strengths being like this:

Buuhan > Buutenks >> Gohan > Gotenks > Buff buu > Super buu > Kid buu (Full power) > SS3 goku (Ki gathered) > Kid buu > SS3 goku > Suppressed SS3 goku ~= South kaioshin ~= SS gotenks post > skinny buu > Fat buu > Majin vegeta > Kid gohan > SPC > Adult SS2 gohan > Dabura >= FP cell

[apex_pretador]

How strong are those failed fusions of Gotenks?

Fat gotenks is strong, stronger than base kids likely. I'd put him around 70% Freeza level at best to half of base goten at worst.
Skinny gotenks is fodder tier / chiatzu level at best to fodder tier / Cyborg tao level at worst.

Veku / fat gogeta is stronger than base gotenks for sure. He would be around SS2 vegeta level IMO.

Where do you get that from?

I don't get it from anywhere, I just used hints from manga.
Fat gotenks wasn't deemed a failure until he showed his poor stamina, his formation caused a storm of ki on lookout. So, he must be above base goten atleast.

Skinny gotenks was identified as a failure as soon as he was formed. He was trash from the very point he was born.

Veku put up a better fight against Janemba than vegeta did, so I see him on SS2 vegeta level.

Battle of Gods Arc

Whis: ??
Beerus: ??

Son Goku:

Spoiler:

110,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 5,500,000,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 22,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan 3: 55,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan [Energy Arsorbed]: 10,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan God: 200,000,000,000,000
-- Base: 80,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 200,000,000,000,000

Vegeta: 100,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 5,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan 2: 20,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan 2 [Enraged]: 5,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan [Ultimate]: 600,000,000,000

Majin Boo: 20,000,000,000

Piccolo: 3,750,000,000

Trunks: 50,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 2,500,000,000

Son Goten: 50,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 2,500,000,000

No. 18: 300,000,000

Tenshinhan: 90,000

Resurrection F Arc


Freeza

Spoiler:

[First form]: 400,000
-- After 4 months of training: 2,000,000,000,000
-- Final form: 100,000,000,000,000
-- Golden form: 530,000,000,000,000

Spoiler:

Son Goku: 100,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 500,000,000,000,000

Vegeta: 100,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 500,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan: 20,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 600,000,000,000

Ginyu [Inside Tagoma’s body]: 120,000,000,000

Gotenks [Super Saiyan]: 50,000,000,000

Tagoma: 20,000

Spoiler:

-- After 4 months of training: 20,000,000,000

Piccolo: 4,000,000,000

Tenshinhan: 100,000

Kuririn: 40,000

Shisami: 30,000

Sorbet: 1,800

Master Roshi: 400
-- Full power form: 1,500

Freeza’s soldiers: 250 - 1,000

Jaco: 500

Champa Arc

Spoiler:

Son Goku: 120,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 300,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 600,000,000,000,000
-- Kaioken x 10: 6,000,000,000,000,000

Hit: 600,000,000,000,000

Vegeta: 120,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 300,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan Blue: 600,000,000,000,000

Cabba: 120,000,000,000,000
-- Super Saiyan: 300,000,000,000,000

Auta Magetta: 100,000,000,000,000
-- Full power: 200,000,000,000,000

Frost [First form]: 80,000,000,000,000
-- Assault form: 120,000,000,000,000
-- Final form: 180,000,000,000,000

Piccolo: 150,000,000,000,000

Botamo: 50,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan: 600,000,000,000

Good Boo: 20,000,000,000

Monaka: 1

The points worth noting are:

• Freeza was stated to be unable to be beaten by goku, and goku agreed himself. Goku has only sensed heavily damaged Freeza on namek, and he should be well below 120M due to damage. (unless you've a different number for 100% freeza). Even not considering that, 110M goku will definitely beat 120M freeza due to stamina issue.
• SS3 goku is significantly above gohan by BoG, as evident when vegeta is only noted to surpass goku despite the fact that he is also stronger than gohan, and vegeta thinking that goku can't be two-shotted, and if it's true, they are all doomed.
• Super Saiyan blue only 5x of base? Too low IMO.
• While ginyu was noted to powerup tagoma's body, it wasn't as massive as your list makes it look like.
• Why is tenshinhan above krillin?
• Shouldn't first form freeza be in manageable levels for buu and gohan, as it was implied?
• Super Saiyan vegeta >>> SS Cabba
• Isn't piccolo too high for not being noted to powerup in U6 arc?

[apex_pretador]

Here are some power levels. Please critique.

Spoiler:

Saiyan arc



Arrival of Raditz


Farmer
~ full power - 5

Piccolo
~ weighted - 322
~ full power - 408
--- 1st Makankōsappō - 1,330
--- 2nd Makankōsappō - 1,280

Son Goku
~ weighted - 334
~ full power - 416
--- Kamehameha - 924

Son Gohan
~ afraid - 1
~ distressed - 710
~ enraged - 1,307

Raditz
~ full power - 1,250



Pre Preparation


Piccolo
~ weighted - 329

Muten-Roshi
~ full power - 139

Chaozu
~ full power - 151

Yamcha
~ full power - 177

Kuririn
~ full power - 206

Tenshinhan
~ full power - 250

Enma Daio
~ full power - 1,800

Kaio-sama
~ full power - 3,500



Battle with Nappa and Vegeta


Yajirobe
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 600

Piccolo
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ suppressed - 1,220
~ full power - 2,000

Son Gohan
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ suppressed - 981
~ full power - 1,307
~ enraged - 2,800
--- Masenkō - 2,800
~ weakened - 600
~ Great Ape - 6,000

Kuririn
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ suppressed - 1,083
~ full power - 1,440

Chaozu
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 800

Tenshinhan
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 1,600
--- beaten down - 500
---- Kikoho - 2,500

Yamcha
post 1 year Saiyan preparation training
~ full power - 1,350

Saibaman
~ full power - 1,200

Nappa
~ suppressed (vs. Zet Senshi) - 3,600
~ powered-up (vs. Goku) - 4,500
~ full power - 7,500

Son Goku
post 5 month Kaio-sama training
~ suppressed - 5,000
~ full power - 8,000+
~ Kaioken x2 - 16,000+
~ Kaioken x3 - 24,000+
---+ Kamehameha - 27,000+
~ Kaioken x4 - 32,000+
---+ Kamehameha - 36,000+

Vegeta
~ full power - 18,000
--- Gyarikku Hō - 27,000+
--- weakened (post Moon Ball) - 10,000
~ Great Ape - 180,000
--- weakened (post Moon Ball) - 100,000
--- weakened (post Great Ape) - 1,500

Spoiler:

Freeza arc



Arrival on Namek


Son Gohan
post Vegeta battle zenkai
~ full power - 1,500

Kuririn
~ weighted - 1,500

Banan
~ full power - 500

Sui
~ full power - 500

Vegeta
post Earth battle zenkai
~ full power - 24,000
--- Kitanai Hanabi - 30,000
post Zarbon battle zenkai
~ full power - 30,000

Kiwi
~ full power - 18,000

Orlen
~ full power - 1,500

Appule
~ Appule - 2,000
~ Lord Appule - 720,000

Namekian Warriors
~ suppressed - 1,000
~ full power - 3,000

Dodoria
~ full power - 20,000

Zarbon
~ Beautiful - 21,600
~ Monster - 28,800



The Ginyu Force


Kuririn
post Guru potential unlock
~ full power - 12,000
post Reacoom fight / vs. Ginyu
~ initial - 25,000

Son Gohan
post Guru potential unlock
~ full power - 12,800
post Reacoom fight zenkai
~ initial - 27,000

Vegeta
~ full power - 30,000
post Reacoom fight zenkai
~ full power (vs. Jeice) - 250,000

Gurd
~ full power - 10,000

Reacoom
~ full power - 36,000
--- Eraser Gun - 40,000

Jeice
~ full power - 36,000
--- Crusher Ball - 50,000

Butta
~ full power - 36,000

Son Goku
post 100x gravity training
~ suppressed - 5,000
~ bursts (vs. Ginyus) - 67,500
~ full power - 90,000
~ Kaioken x2 - 180,000
~ Kaioken x10 - 900,000

Captain Ginyu
~ full power - 120,000
in Son Goku's body
~ full power - 23,000

Nail
~ full power - 42,000



Battle with Freeza


Son Gohan
post Ginyu zenkai / potential unlocked
~ full power - 400,000
~ enraged - 1,000,000
post 2nd form Freeza fight zenkai
~ full power - 1,000,000
~ enraged - 2,250,000

Kuririn
power gradually increasing / potential unlocked
~ full power - 360,000

Vegeta
post Ginyu zenkai / fully rested
~ full power - 500,000
post Dende zenkai
~ full power - 3,600,000

Piccolo
post Kaio-sama's training
~ weighted - 216,000
~ full power - 270,000
post Nail assimilation
~ weighted - 1,440,000
~ full power - 1,800,000

Freeza
~ 1st form - 530,000
~ 2nd form (initial) - 1,060,000
~ 2nd form (powered-up): 1,350,000
~ 2nd form (full power) - 1,600,000
~ 3rd form - 2,400,000
~ True form (initial) - 5,400,000
~ True form (50%) - 120,000,000
~ True form (70%) - 168,000,000
~ True form - 240,000,000
--- Nova Strike - 562,500,000

Son Goku
post Ginyu zenkai
~ base - 5,000,000
~ Kaioken x20 - 100,000,000
---+ Kamehameha - 112,500,000
~ Super Saiyan - 250,000,000
--- Kamehameha - 540,000,000

Spoiler:

Cell arc



Freeza's Revenge


Freeza
post cybernetic enhancement power up
~ suppressed - 180,000,000
--- Supernova - 250,000,000
~ 100% power - 270,000,000

King Cold
~ full power - 200,000,000

Future Trunks
~ base - 9,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 450,000,000

Son Goku
post 1 year & 260 days Yardrat training
~ base - 10,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 500,000,000

Vegeta
post 130 days of rest, and 1 year & 130 days training on Earth and in space after Namek battle
~ full power - 8,000,000

Piccolo
post 260 days of rest and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 7,500,000

Son Gohan
post 260 days of rest/studying and 1 year studying after Namek battle
~ full power - 1,350,000

Kuririn
post 130 days dead, 130 days of rest, and 1 year of training after Namek battle
~ full power - 1,200,000

Tenshinhan
post 266 days training with Kaio-sama, and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 300,000

Yamcha
post 136 days training with Kaio-sama and 1 year & 130 days of rest after Namek battle
~ full power - 200,000

Chaozu
post 266 days training with Kaio-sama, and 1 year training on Earth after Namek battle
~ full power - 100,000



The Future


Future Piccolo
time of death
~ full power - 14,400,000

Future Vegeta
time of death
~ full power - 15,000,000

Future Son Gohan
~ base - 6,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 300,000,000
post left arm amputation
~ base - 8,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 400,000,000

Future Trunks
age 14
~ base - 120,000
~ Super Saiyan - 6,000,000
age 17
~ base - 9,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 450,000,000

Future #17
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)
~ 36% power - 360,000,000 (infinitely)

Future #18
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)



Arrival of the Androids


Son Goku
post 3 years Android training
~ base - 19,200,000
~ Super Saiyan - 960,000,000
~ Super Saiyan (sick) - 600,000,000

Piccolo
post 3 years Android training
~ suppressed - 14,400,000
~ full power - 720,000,000
post re-merge with Kami-sama
Kamiccolo
~ weighted - 1,440,000,000
~ full power - 1,600,000,000

Son Gohan
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 12,500,000

Kuririn
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 10,000,000

Yamcha
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 4,000,000

Tenshinhan
post 3 years Android training
~ full power - 6,000,000

Android #19
~ max power - 400,000,000
post Ki absorption
~ max power - 540,000,000

Vegeta
post 3 years Android training
~ base - 20,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 1,000,000,000
--- Big Bang Attack - 1,250,000,000

Android #20 (Dr. Gero)
~ max power - 500,000,000
post Ki absorption
~ max power - 600,000,000

Future Trunks
post training in the Future
~ base - 18,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 900,000,000

Android #17
~ max power - 1,600,000,000 (infinitely)

Android #18
~ max power - 1,400,000,000 (infinitely)



Android #21, Cell


Piccolo
~ weighted - 1,440,000,000

Cell
post 4 years evolution / hatching
~ 1st form - 1,200,000,000
--- Kamehameha - 2,665,000,000



The Quest for Perfection


Piccolo
~ full power - 1,600,000,000
--- Gekiretsu Kodan - 4,500,000,000

Android #17
~ max power - 1,600,000,000 (infinitely)

Android #18
~ max power - 1,400,000,000 (infinitely)

Android #16
~ max power - 7,200,000,000 (infinitely)

Cell
post mass humans absorbed
~ 1st form - 7,500,000,000
post Android #17 absorption
~ 2nd form (initial suppression) - 12,000,000,000



Hour of decision


Vegeta
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 12,500,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 20,000,000,000
--- Final Flash - 50,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 62,500,000,000

Future Trunks
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 240,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 12,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 2 - 19,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan Grade 3 - 60,000,000,000

Cell
~ 2nd form (initial suppression) - 12,000,000,000
~ 2nd form (full power) - 15,000,000,000
post Android #18 absorption
~ Perfect form (initial suppression) - 18,750,000,000
~ Perfect form (warming up suppression) - 40,000,000,000
~ Perfect form (power weighted) - 80,000,000,000



10 days peace


Son Goku
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ Super Saiyan (50%) - 50,000,000,000

Piccolo
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ full power - 45,000,000,000



The Cell Games


Mr. Satan
~ full power - 6.66

Kuririn
~ full power - 10,000,000

Yamcha
~ full power - 4,000,000

Tenshinhan
~ full power - 6,000,000

Son Goku
~ base - 2,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 100,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan (post Kamehameha) - 80,000,000,000

Vegeta
post 2nd year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 1,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 62,500,000,000

Future Trunks
post 2nd year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 1,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 60,000,000,000

Piccolo
~ full power - 45,000,000,000

Android #16
~ max power - 7,200,000,000 (infinitely)

Son Gohan
post 1 year Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 3,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 150,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 750,000,000,000

Cell
~ Perfect form (powered up suppression) - 112,500,000,000
--- All-out (in speed) - 150,000,000,000
~ Perfect form (full power) - 450,000,000,000
post Android #18 regurgitation
~ 2nd form - 15,000,000,000
post self-destruct zenkai
~ Perfect form (Super Perfect) - 675,000,000,000

Cell Jr.
~ full power - 64,000,000,000



Free the Future


Future Trunks
~ base - 1,200,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 60,000,000,000

Future #17
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)

Future #18
~ max power - 1,000,000,000 (infinitely)

Future Cell
post mass human absorption
~ 1st form - 3,6000,000,000

Spoiler:

Majin Boo arc



25th Tenkaichi Budokai


Son Goku
post 7 years training in the afterlife
~ base - 3,600,000,000

Vegeta
post 7 years training on Earth
~ base - 2,880,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 144,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 720,000,000,000

Son Gohan
post 7 years of inactivity
~ base - 2,400,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 120,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 600,000,000,000

Son Goten
~ base - 2,160,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 108,000,000,000

Trunks
~ base - 2,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 112,500,000,000

Android #18
~ max power - 1,400,000,000 (infinitely)

Kuririn
post 4 years of light training & 3 years of inactivity
~ full power - 10,000,000

Piccolo
post 7 years of light training
~ full power - 50,000,000,000

East Kaioshin
~ full power - 80,000,000,000

Kibito
~ full power - 1,000,000,000



Bobbidi's Spaceship


East Kaioshin
~ full power - 80,000,000,000

Pocus
~ full power - 1,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ base - 2,880,000,000

Yakon
~ full power - 3,000,000,000

Son Goku
~ base - 3,600,000,000
~ Super Saiyan (suppressed light demonstration) - 11,250,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 (suppressed burst) - 750,000,000,000

Dabra
~ full power - 112,500,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Super Saiyan - 120,000,000,000



Majin Boo awakens


Son Goten
~ Super Saiyan - 108,000,000,000

Trunks
~ Super Saiyan - 112,500,000,000

Kuririn
~ full power - 10,000,000

Piccolo
~ full power - 50,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ Super Saiyan - 120,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 600,000,000,000

East Kaioshin
~ full power - 80,000,000,000

Vegeta
post Majin power up
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 900,000,000,000
--- Final Explosion - 4,000,000,000,000

Majin Boo
South Kaioshin & Dai Kaioshin absorbed
~ initial suppression - 500,000,000,000
~ powered up - 1,000,000,000,000
~ full power - 3,000,000,000,000

Dabra
~ full power - 112,500,000,000

Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 900,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 3,600,000,000,000

Trunks and Goten metamoran fusion
Gotenks
~ base - 90,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 4,500,000,000,000



Fusion


Son Gohan
~ base - 2,400,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 180,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 600,000,000,000
post Zeta Sword training
~ base - 4,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 200,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 1,000,000,000,000
post Elder Kaioshin potential unlock
~ Ultimate | full power - 9,000,000,000,000,000

Majin Boo
~ full power - 3,000,000,000,000
evil released
~ Good Boo - 1,200,000,000,000
~ Pure Evil Boo - 1,800,000,000,000

Son Goten
post 2 week Room of Spirit and Time training
~ Super Saiyan - 150,000,000,000

Trunks
post 2 week Room of Spirit and Time training
~ Super Saiyan - 150,000,000,000

Gotenks
post 2 week Room of Spirit and Time training
~ base - 7,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 375,000,000,000,000
--- Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack - 750,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 1,875,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 7,500,000,000,000,000

Evil Boo
Pure Evil Boo eats Good Boo
~ initial - 4,000,000,000,000
~ power up 1 (@ Lookout) - 8,000,000,000,000
~ power up 2 (vs. SS Gotenks) - 500,000,000,000,000
~ full power - 6,000,000,000,000,000
--- Mouth Blast - 6,750,000,000,000,000
~ Gotenks absorbed - 13,500,000,000,000,000
~ Gohan absorbed - 15,000,000,000,000,000
--- Super Ghost Kamikaze Attack - 30,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta and Goku metamoran fusion
Gogeta
~ base - 9,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 450,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 2,250,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 9,000,000,000,000,000

Vegeta and Goku potara fusion
Vegetto
~ base - 500,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 25,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 125,000,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 500,000,000,000,000,000



The Final Battle


Son Goku
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 3,600,000,000,000

Vegeta
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 900,000,000,000

Pure Boo
~ South Kaioshin absorbed - 12,000,000,000,000,000
removal of all influence
~ full power - 3,600,000,000,000

Good Boo
~ full power - 1,200,000,000,000



End of Z


Son Goku
post 10 years training
~ base - 1,500,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan - 75,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 2 - 375,000,000,000,000
~ Super Saiyan 3 - 1,500,000,000,000,000

Son Gohan
~ full power - 9,000,000,000,000,000

Good Boo
~ full power - 1,200,000,000,000

Oob
Pure Boo reincarnated
~ enraged - 1,440,000,000,000
~ angry Kiai - 3,600,000,000,000

• Piccolo too low? He did FAR more to nappa with a casual blast than KiKoHo, You can safely put him on like 2600 or 2700.
• Attack multipliers? really?
• Nappa wasn't really close to goku. He should be around 5000 more or less because he thought that krillin & Gohan can beat nappa with 5000 goku.
• Vegeta was explicitly stated to be unable to change power levels before going to earth so galick gun can't be above 18,000 = KK x3 KHH. So, KK x4 KHH can't be above 24000. This also includes the fact that vegeta can't survive a 36,000 attack.
• Gurd should be below 10,000. He treated 10,000+ as a big deal.
• Freeza 1st form must be much higher than compared to vege/gohan/krillin, as described by piccolo.
• 50% Freeza must be below goku x20, because goku dominated him in H2H and thought that freeza will be vaporised by x20 KHH. Freeza is implied to do something to save himself.
• Where is the damage freeza got from spirit bomb and the beatdown from SS goku (when he was at 50%)
• King cold and freeza (mecha) are too high. The way gohan described, the power they were emitting was nothing compared to 100% DAMAGED Freeza on namek.
• Goku Yadrat is too high for not being noted to powerup. Same for trunks (he was recognized as goku)
• Dr Gero is heavily implied to be below Freeza,
• Androids must be a lot lower, considering the fact that freeza > Dr gero
• Why do you have cell and #16 THAT much higher compared to piccolo? Cell deemed piccolo as a threat even post absorption. He went for piccolo first instead of getting to androids directly.
• Cell (post) can't be above #16. 16 stated he will kill cell, and was ripping cell's limbs. Cell did nothing except a kick.
• I think you've messed up no of zeroes in future cell.
• New material states piccolo >>> Trunks
• Pocus too high? If he's that strong, why didn't he rule the universe instead of freeza?
• SS GOtenks put up quite a fight against Super buu. He shouldn't be 16x weaker than super buu.
• SS Gotenks survived Super Ghost attack with minor damage, so the attack is not THAT powerful.
• Buff buu over 3000x stronger than kid buu? No specific change was noted in buu after south kaioshin absorption.

[apex_pretador]

Tiers of power

Spoiler:

1. No.17/18, Piccolo (Androids saga)
2. No.16, SSJ1 Goten/SSJ1 Trunks (pre RoSaT, Buu arc)
3. Semi-Perfect Cell
4. SSJ1 Vegeta (Grade I, post-RoSaT), Piccolo (post RoSaT, Cell games)
5. Super Vegeta (Grade II, post RoSaT, Cell arc), Piccolo (Buu arc)
6. SSJ1 Vegeta (FPSSJ, Cell Games), Cell Jr
7. SSJ1 Gohan (Buu arc, SSJ1 hair), SSJ1 Goten/Trunks (Buu arc, post RoSaT)
8. SSJ1 Goku (Cell Games), SSJ1 Gohan (Cell Games), East Kaioshin
9. Perfect Cell (full power), Base Gotenks (Buu arc, pre-RosaT)
10. Super Perfect Cell
11. Dabra, “SSJ1” Gohan (Buu arc, SSJ1 with SSJ2 hair but SSJ1 aura), “SSJ1” Gohan (FnF)
12. SSJ1 Goku (Buu arc), SSJ1 Majin Vegeta (Buu arc), SSJ1 Gohan (Buu arc post Z sword training)
13. SSJ2 Gohan (Cell Games), Kibitoshin, Base Gotenks (Buu arc, post-RosaT)
14. Majin SSJ2 Vegeta, SSJ2 Goku (Buu arc), SSJ2 Gohan (Buu arc, post Z sword training)
15. SSJ1 Gotenks (pre-RoSaT)
16. Fat Buu, Good Buu, Mr Buu
17. Suppressed SSJ3 Goku (Vs Fat Buu)
18. Skinny Buu, SSJ1 Gotenks (post RoSaT)
19. SSJ2 Gotenks (post RoSaT)
20. SSJ3 Gotenks (Buu arc), Base Super Buu, Buuccolo
21. Ultimate Gohan, Anime SSJ3 Goku (Vs Buutenks)
22. Buutenks
23. Base Vegetto (Buu arc), Buuhan
24. Anime kid Buu, Anime 100% improved SSJ3 Goku (Buu arc, Vs kid Buu & BoGs arc, Vs Beerus)
25. Enraged SSJ2 Vegeta (BoGs, Vs Beerus), SSJ1 Vegetto (early BoGs arc), First Form Freeza (FnF)
26. SSJ2 Vegetto (theoretical, early BoGs arc)
27. SSJ1 Goku (BoGs arc, post failed ritual – energies of everyone absorbed)
28. SSJ3 Vegetto (theoretical, early BoGs arc)
29. Base Goku/Vegeta (FnF), Final form Freeza (FnF)
30. Base Goku/Vegeta (U6 arc)
31. ---
32. SSJ1 Goku/Vegeta (U6 arc), Magetta
33. ---
34. ---
35. Base Vegetto (theoretical, U6 arc)
36. ---
37. SSJ1 Vegetto (theoretical, U6 arc)
38. SSJ2 Vegetto (theoretical, U6 arc)
39. ---
40. SSJ3 Vegetto (theoretical U6 arc),
41. ---
42. SSJG Goku (BoGs), SSJ Goku (during his fight with Beerus), Boosted Base Goku (punching the sphere at the end of his fight with Beerus)
43. SSJB Goku/Vegeta (FnF)
44. Golden Freeza (100%), Hit (initial full power), SSJB Goku/Vegeta (U6 tournament)
45. KK SSJB Goku (U6 tournament arc)
46. KKx10 SSJB Goku (U6 tournament arc), Hit (final improvement)
47. ---
48. Beerus (full power), SSJB Vegetto (theoretical, U6 arc)
49. SSJB KK Vegetto (theoretical, U6 arc)
50. SSJB KKx10 Vegetto (theoretical, U6 arc)
51. Whis/Vados
52. Omni-kings’ body guards.
53. ---
54. ---
55. ---
56. ---
57. ---
58. ---
59. ---
60. Omni-King

Fine for most part except:

BoG Piccolo >>> Kid trunks BoG

Suppressed SS3goku > Skinny buu
Buutenks (anime) > Kid buu (anime)

Spoiler:

I don't get it from anywhere, I just used hints from manga.
Fat gotenks wasn't deemed a failure until he showed his poor stamina, his formation caused a storm of ki on lookout. So, he must be above base goten atleast.

Skinny gotenks was identified as a failure as soon as he was formed. He was trash from the very point he was born.

Veku put up a better fight against Janemba than vegeta did, so I see him on SS2 vegeta level.

I certainly don't remember fat Gotenks causing a storm. And while the guys at the Lookout don't call him a failure until he tries to jog, nobody says anything about him being even slightly impressive at all. They're not even giving him the same vague "Wow, such power!" statements that Gotenks got when he was formed properly. For the most part, the people around just seem baffled.

I really wouldn't take Veku running for his life from Janemba and escaping only by farting as a serious feat of strength. It's the same way that Mr Satan didn't immediately die when he got smacked into a mountain by Cell, or how he got hit by Pure Boo and only had a broken nose to show for it. It's a gag. Everything to do with those failed fusions are gags.

I should've also added the word that this is all speculation, and can't be PROPERLY backed up.

[apex_pretador]

BoG Piccolo >>> Kid trunks BoG
Suppressed SS3goku > Skinny buu
Buutenks (anime) > Kid buu (anime)

Piccolo always so hard to fit in those lists ... I was thinking of not putting him at all as he's clearly wherever the plot demands.

He has always been as strong as plot demands - whether it is logical or not - like he jumped atleast 9 tiers in not even a week on kaio.
In buu arc, the ONLY thing we see on his strength is - he is fodder to SS2's, but he is excited to face Goku & Vegeta (Who haven't achieved SS2 as far as he knows) & Gohan.
It can be resolved if you put CG Piccolo at super vegeta tier & Buu arc piccolo in the same tier as SS1 adult Gohan, without contradiction.

Regarding Suppressed SSJ3 Goku and skinny Buu I decided to make the tier more distinct and placed them together. My logic is that Fat Buu and Good Buu are almost equal in power and what was split was the dormant power of kid Buu.

My logic is the fact that Suppressed SS3 goku was emitting enough energy to reach Kaioshin planet, while skinny buu was not.

As for Buutenks and kid Buu in the anime as much I want to say Buutenks>kid Buu (as I used to believe that kid Buu is no.3 behind Buutenks and Buuhan instead of no.1) the anime does flat out state kid Buu is on a different level than ALL the Buus that appeared thus far

Who states that? Narrator or goku?
And what issue I have is - Buutenks stated that THIS is the birth of the strongest Majin and he is the strongest he has ever been, and can't get any stronger than this (although he does get a little stronger later on), despite the fact that he has been kid buu before.
He does not say this thing while becoming super buu because buff buu > Super buu is a fact, i.e. , he has been stronger than super buu once before.

The other issue I have is, buff buu must be stronger than kid buu because ONLY dai kaioshin is noted to have a different effect on buu.

and even in the anime guidebooks that came with the dragonboxes there is a whole paragraph explaining why kid Buu is the strongest.

I don't give a damn about guidebooks as they are inconsistent as hell. I don't think you do either.

I mean yeah there is the gazillion debate about Goku in the innards of Super Buu

It can be explained otherwise, and goku didn't stood a chance against kid buu either. TBH, kid buu can be safely above super buu (not that it matters here)

but he WAS 100% powerless against Buutenks and Buuhan in the fusion saga.

to an extent that he'd rather merge PERMANENTLY WITH MR SATAN rather than fight them.

So to face the supposedly stronger kid Buu he either pulled off an improvement or ascended his SSJ3 to new heights (either due to pushing the form further or because of the time flow in the Kaioshin realm possibly being different than on Earth).

Vegeta had a not-that-bad performance against kid buu. Initially, vegeta thought he had a chance against kid buu. Fat buu put up a semi-decent fight against kid buu, and he is noted to be weaker than pre-split fat buu in DBS (although I think they are very close).

[apex_pretador]

The points worth noting are:

• 1-Freeza was stated to be unable to be beaten by goku, and goku agreed himself. Goku has only sensed heavily damaged Freeza on namek, and he should be well below 120M due to damage. (unless you've a different number for 100% freeza). Even not considering that, 110M goku will definitely beat 120M freeza due to stamina issue.
• 2-Super Saiyan blue only 5x of base? Too low IMO.
• 3-Why is tenshinhan above krillin?
• 4-Super Saiyan vegeta >>> SS Cabba

1-My number for freeza is 140,000,000, and tired 120,000,000
2- Why?
3- Ten not stop train in his life, and Krillin in peace time does not train, and was the worst against soldiers
4- Base Vegeta = Base Cabba, SS too.

Super Saiyan Vegeta is FAR above SS Cabba, as evident from the fight. Vegeta tanked a full-force punch from Cabba, when he got serious. It could be due to the power of SSG in SS, or could be due to mastered super saiyan (when in Cell Games, it became MSS > SS 2nd Grade > Unmastered SS)

Whatever the reason may be, the point stands.

[apex_pretador]

Didn't Cabba get the crap beaten out of him before he went Super Saiyan? That would account for the difference in their performances.

Super Saiyan rejuvenates you and renders previous wounds irrelevant. See the case of Goku vs Freeza.

Bringing up another point here - Freeza 100% > Super Saiyan goku.

Freeza 100% and super saiyan goku fought evenly before freeza got tired (after using his force-field / after porunga). However , whatever power he lost due to
- Genki dama, which nearly killed him
- Beatdown from newly transformed super saiyan goku, when he was still at 50%
was not recovered.
So, 100% damaged freeza =< SS Goku (new) << 100% Healthy freeza