Dub Gokou: A Different Character?

[Travis Touchdown]

Sorry but, what is "Gokuh"?

I used to spell it that way all the time since it's how his name is spelled in artwork by Toriyama. But alas, everyone always thought I was nuts, so I've since reverted to "Goku," which I had previously only used for Goku Jr. since that's how his name was spelled on his shirt.

(Likewise, I separated the 3 Vegetas but the 3 different spellings; King Vegita, Prince Vegeta, Vejita Jr. since I thought it made it easier to tell who I was talking about in text, but again, people don't like that apparently.)

Hmm...did we ever see Goku's reaction to Gohan as the Great Saiyaman?

If I remember right, in the FUNi dub at least, he was the only one who thought it looked really cool.

[Victator Supreme]

In the viz adaptation he says "I never got a costume." What did he say in the original?

Going further on Freeza. The bottom line is he did end up killing Freeza. He gave him one final chance. Freeza attacked him and he ended it. Or at least thought he did. In the original timeline he killed Freeza and his dad when they attacked the earth.

[The Tori-bot]

Hmm...did we ever see Goku's reaction to Gohan as the Great Saiyaman?

If I remember right, in the FUNi dub at least, he was the only one who thought it looked really cool.

He says it in the Japanese version too.

[Rocketman]

Stupid asinine comparison. Try harder.

"Letting an evil genocidal fuck go free even though you have the means to destroy him and save those under his rule" is not a valid comparison to "letting an evil genocidal fuck go free even though you have the means to destroy him and save those under his rule"?

[Victator Supreme]

Stupid asinine comparison. Try harder.

"Letting an evil genocidal fuck go free even though you have the means to destroy him and save those under his rule" is not a valid comparison to "letting an evil genocidal fuck go free even though you have the means to destroy him and save those under his rule"?

Its a matter of context. One being a battle between two super humans fighting to the death on a dying planet. The other being a real war between several huge armies. Mix that in with the cliche of using the nazis as an example.

Finally Goku did kill Freeza so it did not matter. Even if he hadn't. Freeza was a head, a arm and a piece of a torso. His days of terrorising anyone was over. All of his most powerful underlings were dead (Goku did not know of King Cold), Freeza's empire was bound to fall or at the very least crippled. Also he did kill him in the end. So it doesnt make a difference to the argument.

[Kunzait_83]

b

[Victator Supreme]

The Red Ribbon soilders were killed in the heat of the moment. Freeza was begging and pleading for mercy. Goku was not going to kill anyone begging for their life. Again the Red Ribbon soilders were killed by essentially their own hand. Whether it be firing a rocket at a kid or attacking him in a hovercraft. There is a difference.

He showed the same mercy to Tao.WAs he excited by the prospect of a rematch? Yes he was. But it was primarily as with Freeza) to show mercy to someone pleading for their life. Following a common thread among enemies Goku has killed, Tao brought about his own demise.

Not every western hero follows the same path. Conan, Batman and Wolverine. three separate distinct characters. But are all to varying degrees heroes.

I have a pretty basic checklist for a superhero.

1. Wears a colorful costume/uniform.

2. Has amazing powers/skills.

3. Fights colorful villians who display incredible powers.

Sound like anyone we know?

[Thanos6]

Y'know, if I wanted to right a real dark fic, this would be a good basis...a division between the older, martial arts types (Goku, Vegeta) and their more superheroic sons (Gohan, Mirai Trunks).

It already led to some raised voices and arguments in the actual series...maybe it could be turned into a real, family-ending rift...

[Rocketman]

The Red Ribbon soilders were killed in the heat of the moment. Freeza was begging and pleading for mercy. Goku was not going to kill anyone begging for their life. Again the Red Ribbon soilders were killed by essentially their own hand. Whether it be firing a rocket at a kid or attacking him in a hovercraft. There is a difference.

Goku crushed some guys to death by smashing them between a table and the wall.

He showed the same mercy to Tao.

No, he didn't. He was thinking about it when Tao attacked him again.

[Victator Supreme]

The Red Ribbon soilders were killed in the heat of the moment. Freeza was begging and pleading for mercy. Goku was not going to kill anyone begging for their life. Again the Red Ribbon soilders were killed by essentially their own hand. Whether it be firing a rocket at a kid or attacking him in a hovercraft. There is a difference.

Goku crushed some guys to death by smashing them between a table and the wall.

He showed the same mercy to Tao.

No, he didn't. He was thinking about it when Tao attacked him again.

1. They were not trying to kill him? Also you do not know they were dead.

No, he didn't. He was thinking about it when Tao attacked him again.

Yes he did.

[Rocketman]

They were not trying to kill him? Also you do not know they were dead.

Their eyes were whited out and their tongues were hanging out their mouths. Pretty sure they were dead.

Also, I think we're having a miscommunication here:

Even if he hadn't. Freeza was a head, a arm and a piece of a torso. His days of terrorising anyone was over.

I'm not referring to that part. I'm referring to the part where Goku stops in the middle of the fight, powers down from SSJ, tells Freeza he's satisfied, then flies away to leave Namek. Freeza was still whole then and wasn't doing any begging for his life.

[Victator Supreme]

They were not trying to kill him? Also you do not know they were dead.

Their eyes were whited out and their tongues were hanging out their mouths. Pretty sure they were dead.

Also, I think we're having a miscommunication here:

Even if he hadn't. Freeza was a head, a arm and a piece of a torso. His days of terrorising anyone was over.

I'm not referring to that part. I'm referring to the part where Goku stops in the middle of the fight, powers down from SSJ, tells Freeza he's satisfied, then flies away to leave Namek. Freeza was still whole then and wasn't doing any begging for his life.

His spirit was crushed. He had been soundly defeated. Living with that fear and humiliation would gurrantee nothing like namek would happen again. I think Goku knew Freeza would not let it end at that. In any case Freeza attacked him once more and brought about his demise.


I will need to go back to the manga volume in question to review it. Whited out eyes can just as easily be knocked out. Even if they are dead they brought about their own deaths by trying to murder a child. Which again plays into a common thread of the villians Goku has killed.

Also at this point Goku had no concept of pulling his punches. Anytime he fought he was going all out. Its not til his three years training for the 22nd budokai he learned how to hold back.

[Rocketman]

His spirit was crushed. He had been soundly defeated. Living with that fear and humiliation would gurrantee nothing like namek would happen again.

Yes, just like the utterly defeated Vegeta didn't go on to slaughter a whole village of innocents, including the children.

[Victator Supreme]

His spirit was crushed. He had been soundly defeated. Living with that fear and humiliation would gurrantee nothing like namek would happen again.

Yes, just like the utterly defeated Vegeta didn't go on to slaughter a whole village of innocents, including the children.

See the Vegeta argument is actually airtight. There is no way to excuse that.

[Onikage725]

See the Vegeta argument is actually airtight. There is no way to excuse that.

How is Freeza's example any less airtight? Vegeta was actually crushed and beaten when Goku asked for him to be spared. Freeza was winded. No injury a bath, hot meal, and good night's sleep wouldn't let him recover enough to wipe out a couple of inhabited planet's out of sheer spite. If I recall correctly, he was actually in the middle of swearing a thousand times of payback on Goku. So he wasn't exactly crushed. It was ultimately his own attack that did him in, after trying to kill Goku from behind.

AND EVEN THEN, GOKU TRIED TO WARN HIM!

Seriously, Goku gave Freeza numerous chances he didn't deserve.

EDIT: I just read Kunzait's post, and I have to throw this line from a certain movie.

Inigo: Kill me quickly.
Man in Black: I would as soon destroy a stained glass window as an artist like yourself. However, since I can't have you following me either...
*knocks him out*
Man in black: Please understand, I hold you in the highest respect.

[Victator Supreme]

The difference being Goku did not really defeat Vegeta. It took four of them and a bunch of luck to survive the battle. Goku had proven himself to be vastly stronger than Freeza. Add in that all of the other fighters were ressurected. Freeza was never going to be a threat to Earth. Also it would of weakened Freeza's holdon his own empire. After hearing of what happened on Namek. It is easy to assume there would be uprisings.

[Onikage725]

The difference being Goku did not really defeat Vegeta. It took four of them and a bunch of luck to survive the battle. Goku had proven himself to be vastly stronger than Freeza. Add in that all of the other fighters were ressurected. Freeza was never going to be a threat to Earth. Also it would of weakened Freeza's holdon his own empire. After hearing of what happened on Namek. It is easy to assume there would be uprisings.

Those are all true factors, but do you think Goku thought that far ahead? And even if he did, is it "heroic" to take that risk? He didn't know Shunkan Idou yet (or know that he was going to soon learn it), so he couldn't guarantee he could get to Freeza before any destruction/death occured. And that's just regarding Earth. What about the other planets Freeza could unleash his wrath on? Not very forward thinking of Goku, especially not the dub version who declares himself the "hope of the universe."

[Victator Supreme]

The difference being Goku did not really defeat Vegeta. It took four of them and a bunch of luck to survive the battle. Goku had proven himself to be vastly stronger than Freeza. Add in that all of the other fighters were ressurected. Freeza was never going to be a threat to Earth. Also it would of weakened Freeza's holdon his own empire. After hearing of what happened on Namek. It is easy to assume there would be uprisings.

Those are all true factors, but do you think Goku thought that far ahead? And even if he did, is it "heroic" to take that risk? He didn't know Shunkan Idou yet (or know that he was going to soon learn it), so he couldn't guarantee he could get to Freeza before any destruction/death occured. And that's just regarding Earth. What about the other planets Freeza could unleash his wrath on? Not very forward thinking of Goku, especially not the dub version who declares himself the "hope of the universe."

Well Goku is pretty dumb. Brillant fighter. But a whopping moron none the less.

[rereboy]

The difference being Goku did not really defeat Vegeta. It took four of them and a bunch of luck to survive the battle. Goku had proven himself to be vastly stronger than Freeza. Add in that all of the other fighters were ressurected. Freeza was never going to be a threat to Earth. Also it would of weakened Freeza's holdon his own empire. After hearing of what happened on Namek. It is easy to assume there would be uprisings.

Actually, if mecha-frieza really wanted to, instead of landing on Earth he could just shoot a hundred or more of energy balls from his ship, each one capable of destroying the Earth, to different points in the planet at the same time.

It would be impossible to stop them all, even with Goku`s teleportation.
So Frieza was still a huge threat to Earth.

Even if Frieza didnt become mecha-frieza and was still missing his legs and arm, he would still be a huge threat. As long as he could recover to his previous or approximate strength he would not need his legs or more than an arm to shoot those hundred or more energy balls.

Goku doesn`t like to take lives when he doesn`t have to (what he considers have to is "if I dont kill him right now he will kill me right now"). Besides that, he knew that it would be very humiliating for Frieza to be defeated and be spared by the Super Sayan. And he had a very selfish reason to let him live... He liked having an opponent of his caliber around.
Those were the reasons why Goku acted the way he did. The smart thing would be to kill him. But Goku thinks everything but smart.

Regarding Vegeta it was exactly the same reasons, except maybe humiliating him, since Goku and his friends didn`t win because they were stronger than him.