The most famous controversy - Goku's Japanese voice

[VegettoEX]

I think Goku's behaviour gets across the point that he's childlike well enough. Giving him a childlike voice isn't necessary.

Well isn't that exactly what's being counter-argued against the casting of Majin Buu for FUNimation's dub?

[Amigo Ten]

But I don't necessarily agree with that. That's the general argument that's been used in this thread by people who don't really like Goku's JP voice. But most of the people defending Nozawa did so on the grounds that matching the character's personality was the better way to go, rather than just giving Goku a burly man voice because he looked like a burly man.

Now that a Funimation voice is the main focus, giving him a voice that matches his personality is a bad thing, because it's "too obvious". Whereas giving him a jolly fat man voice because that's what he looks like was the right thing to do. Seems like people are looking for any excuse to defend Toei's voice and put Funi down, even if when both companies to the same thing.

[VegettoEX]

I'm not entirely sure what you're saying right now, Amigo Ten. Maybe it's just that you're talking about what other people are talking about instead of what you think. So break it down for me.

The casting of Masako Nozawa for adult Goku based on the character's appearance alone may not be suitable justification.

Gotcha, cool.

What do you think about the reverse, though, that the casting of (whomever) as (fat/"Mr.") Majin Buu in FUNimation's English dub based on the character's appearance alone may not be suitable justification?

If you're going to attack the former, wouldn't you logically have to attack the latter?

I'll put it out there that I toss logic out the window in a lot of cases and make compromises to suit my own personal likes, so as long as we're all admitting we're hypocrites, that's totally fine.

(Though I'd argue that plenty of other things about Majin Buu's voice casting are "off" in addition to the raw "baby-esque" sound of it...)

[Captain-Sora]

I don't think what he's saying regards the matter of preferences, it's more of questioning the logic and the explanations behind some opinions.

When they kept Nozawa for the adult Goku, people found it interesting and unique that they chose to keep a childlike voice and how it works because it fits his personality. Suddenly, when the subject of Buu being a miscast in the original version came up, Penguintruth started saying that the English one was being too obvious and too on the nose by trying to match his personality with his voice despite the fact that Toei did the same thing with Goku.

Didn't Amigo Ten actually state he liked Nozawa before too? I don't think he was attacking that direction taken. He's just asking why people find that's a good thing yet doing the same thing for another character in the English version is suddenly boring and uncreative.

[TonyTheTiger]

I personally don't like Funimation's Majin Buu's voice all that much simply because it's annoying, appropriateness be damned.

[Amigo Ten]

I like Nozawa's Goku and I like Funi's Boo. I think they both fit the characters just fine. Boo's voice isn't perfect, but it's a lot better than his Japanese voice.

It's just that Goku's JP voice matching his personality rather than his looks is apparently great, but Boo's Funi voice doing the same is apparently bad. If people just like one and don't like the other, then whatever, fine. But they're praising one voice for one reason and attacking another voice for that exact same reason, all out of some misplaced sense of respect for Japanese voice actors just because they're more concerned with being emotional and dramatic than finding the right voice for the character.

[Amigo Ten]

I personally don't like Funimation's Majin Buu's voice all that much simply because it's annoying, appropriateness be damned.

Which is fair enough. I don't really like Nozawa's Gohan, at least when he's a small child. It's just annoying.

[Big Momma]

I personally don't like Funimation's Majin Buu's voice all that much simply because it's annoying, appropriateness be damned.

Which is fair enough. I don't really like Nozawa's Gohan, at least when he's a small child. It's just annoying.

For the record, Gohan as a child is just annoying no matter what

I think his behavior gets across the point that he's childlike well enough. Giving him a childlike voice isn't necessary. At this point it's just overstating the obvious. His Japanese voice fits more to the jolly fat guy image that he gives off.

I get what you're saying. And I personally don't have a problem with either voices for Buu. However, giving him a childlike voice because he acts childish doesn't seem like overkill or something that is unnecessary at all. I mean, when you think about it, it fits just fine. He acts like a child, so give him a child's voice. The JP voice for Buu is pretty childish, too, it's just a bit deeper.

We could apply your thinking to other cartoons as well.

"Well, the I think the fact that SpongeBob Squarepants/Timmy Turner acts like a child get's the point that he's childish across just fine. We don't need them to sound like a child, too. Let's give them a deeper voice."
(Granted, that would be pretty funny in Spongebob's case...but kind of creepy for Timmy. Unless you could that episode where he was a radio DJ.)

I'm not trying to come against you, I'm just saying your view of thinking can be applied to other things, too. And it looks silly in those situations.


Heck, you could do the same for Peter Griffin. He's like a big, fat, kid.

[Mewzard]

This is why I love the internet, our double standards are quickly revealed, lol.

To be fair, though, I think the gap in voices between the English and Japanese Goku is smaller than the English and Japanese Buu. If the innocent character needs a more soft spoken voice, why not have the silly child monster sound more light and care free?

[Majin Buu]

I think Goku's behaviour gets across the point that he's childlike well enough. Giving him a childlike voice isn't necessary. His English voice fits more to the naive cheerful adult image that he gives off.

Thing is, it doesn't. At least not in the Z dub. Schemmel just sounded like a generic super hero most of the time in the Z dub. Though he's gotten better at conveying that aspect of Goku in the Kai dub.

Why is that when a Japanese voice actor was being discussed, it was a good thing that the voice was more suited to the personality rather than looks? Now we're talking about an English voice, apparently giving a childish character a childish is just wrong and bad.

For me, it's not a case of "it should be done this way all the time or that way all the time". Keeping the voice Goku had since childhood for his adult self worked (and BTW, Nozawa doesn't even voice him the same way she did when he was a kid, there's a noticeable difference). Funi tried something similar with giving dub Fat Buu a childlike voice and it didn't work I guess it depends on the character.

"Well, the I think the fact that SpongeBob Squarepants/Timmy Turner acts like a child get's the point that he's childish across just fine. We don't need them to sound like a child, too. Let's give them a deeper voice."

I'm not trying to come against you, I'm just saying your view of thinking can be applied to other things, too. And it looks silly in those situations.

That's an oversimplification of my way of thinking. All I'm saying is that a character's voice doesn't ALWAYS need to match their personality, nor does it doesn't ALWAYS need to match their appearance. It depends on what works best for the character.

In Fat Buu's case, I don't believe his voice needs to sound childlike because that aspect of him is conveyed well enough through his behavior, so they're better off matching it to his appearance. I think that's what works best for the character. If it actually worked better for his voice to be matched to his childlike personality I'd be all for it, but Funi tried that, and it didn't work (and just for the record, I don't think it would work well in Japanese either) . With Goku, what worked best for the character was to stick with the voice actor he had since his childhood (and again, Nozawa doesn't voice him the same as she did in his childhood).

As for your example, Timmy Turner actually is a child, it wouldn't work to make him sound like anything other than that. As for SpongeBob, he doesn't really sound like a child. He's more like Japanese Fat Buu now that I think about it. He behaves like a child, but his voice doesn't really sound like a child's.

[Amigo Ten]

I personally don't like Funimation's Majin Buu's voice all that much simply because it's annoying, appropriateness be damned.

Which is fair enough. I don't really like Nozawa's Gohan, at least when he's a small child. It's just annoying.

For the record, Gohan as a child is just annoying no matter what

Colleen's Gohan is sounding good. When he's not shouting at least.

[Amigo Ten]

*long post*

So basically, you just don't like Boo's Funi voice. Okay then.

[the_abberration]

I think giving Fat Buu a child like voice in America was a good move to a degree. It helped the story build up to the eventual "swerve" (to coin a wrestling term) that took place.

To the audience, Buu looks like a big baby with a diaper. Added to this, he sounds like a baby. The audience is lulled into thinking that Fat Buu is a naive baby, and is only evil because of Babidi's influence. To further this, Goku thinks this as well.

Goku plays on this by putting a wedge between Buu and Babidi when his says Gotenks will only fight one of them. Babidi brushes this off, because he too judges Buu by his appearance (going by the dub you could say the voice too). Again, the audience is lulled in.

Babidi insults Buu by reminding him (and the audience), that Buu is a child. And then it happens. Buu swerves us by turning on and killing Babidi. Now freed from Babidi's influence, Goku thinks Buu can be reasoned with. But in another swerve, Buu turns out to be worse than before.

I don't think that scene would have played out as surprisingly, if Buu had a different voice. With another voice, I think Buu may have seemed more competent. Just unable to find a way to get from under Babidi's control. Instead, we get a Buu whose appearance and voice gives us no inkling that he is capable of such violence on his own until he kills Babidi.

As a side note:

I saw this same type of thing play out in wrestling. Kane was being managed by Paul Bearer and was fighting the Undertaker. He drove a wedge between them by pointing out to Kane that he didn't need Paul. Paul started insulting Kane and BAM! Kane turned on him by choke slamming him. The Undertaker thinking Kane was on his side went to hug him and then BAM! Kane choke slams the Undertaker.

[Majin Buu]

So basically, you just don't like Boo's Funi voice. Okay then.

When you get right down to it, pretty much.

It's just Fat Buu though. The other dub Buus are decent enough.

(Though I'd argue that plenty of other things about Majin Buu's voice casting are "off" in addition to the raw "baby-esque" sound of it...)

I know exactly what you're referring to, I intentionally kept my complaints to the sound of his voice since that seemed most pertinent to the discussion.

[Savage68]

What do proponents of Nozawa's Goku think of the decision to use the same voice as Goku's for Turles and Bardock? It always struck me as odd that those two characters, of all people, were stuck with that voice. I mean, they refrained from it with Raditz (I guess because he didn't look like Goku), but they didn't hold back when it got to those two characters - ones that don't have a childish personality to justify the casting.

[Gaffer Tape]

I don't think it needs a justification. Quite honestly, they both sound pretty badass to me, and Nozawa does a surprisingly good (and manly) performance with both of them. The concept of using Nozawa for so many members of Goku's family does border on absurd, but in execution, I really can't complain about any of them.

[TonyTheTiger]

I think by the time those two showed up the producers and possibly the audience already made the connection. Goku's appearance = Nozawa. I've never been particularly bothered by it but the reason for casting Nozawa at that point was probably relatively superficial.

[Big Momma]

For the record, Gohan as a child is just annoying no matter what

Colleen's Gohan is sounding good. When he's not shouting at least.

Agreed. I was just saying that Kid Gohan himself, no matter who's voicing him, is an annoying, whiney, little turd

[Captain Awesome]

What do proponents of Nozawa's Goku think of the decision to use the same voice as Goku's for Tullece and Bardock? It always struck me as odd that those two characters, of all people, were stuck with that voice. I mean, they refrained from it with Raditz (I guess because he didn't look like Goku), but they didn't hold back when it got to those two characters - ones that don't have a childish personality to justify the casting.

Masako Nozawa as Tullece is one of my all time favourite performances in the series, she takes the Goku when know and love and twists him into this suave, creepy villain. The entire premise behind movie 3 was to show us what could have happened had Goku not lost his Saiya-jin programming, FUNimation however completely dropped the ball by giving Tullece a completely different (and completely generic) voice. I feel much the same about Bardock's voice except Nozawa plays him a little more straight-forward, so it's not quite as memorable, but still wholly appropriate in my opinion.

And as for Boo's dub voice, I think it was absolutely woeful and was yet another shining example of FUNimation only being able to get their point across with a sledgehammer.

[Savage68]

And as for Boo's dub voice, I think it was absolutely woeful and was yet another shining example of FUNimation only being able to get their point across with a sledgehammer.

So...it's basically what Toei did with Goku, as an adult?