Well, he wasn't sure if he had surpassed Raged SS2 Gohan.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Vegeta had surpassed him at this point so I don't see why his outburst would be out of jealousy when Vegeta is clearly superior.
Did Gohan even lose power?
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
I still don't see why he would be jealous.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Well, he wasn't sure if he had surpassed Raged SS2 Gohan.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Vegeta had surpassed him at this point so I don't see why his outburst would be out of jealousy when Vegeta is clearly superior.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
I never said that he was jealous, just pointing out that Vegeta hadn't completely surpassed Gohan.TheMightyOzaru wrote:I still don't see why he would be jealous.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Well, he wasn't sure if he had surpassed Raged SS2 Gohan.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Vegeta had surpassed him at this point so I don't see why his outburst would be out of jealousy when Vegeta is clearly superior.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
@DBZGTKOSDH I'm not seeing it. None of those are very good looks at Gohan, but when he's searching for the potara he definitely doesn't look locked in "angry" mode. Can't even see his eyebrows in the first picture, either.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
You can see that his eyes have always the "V" shape. Check the manga on your own if you can, in every single panel Gohan's eyes make the "V" shape.Saiga wrote:@DBZGTKOSDH I'm not seeing it. None of those are very good looks at Gohan, but when he's searching for the potara he definitely doesn't look locked in "angry" mode. Can't even see his eyebrows in the first picture, either.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
As far as I can tell they do any time after the ritual. They appear more pronounced in some panels, and that's all. Any differences are so subtle, that I don't see them being any different as Gohan at the Cell Games in and out of battle - that's a much bigger difference.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:You can see that his eyes have always the "V" shape. Check the manga on your own if you can, in every single panel Gohan's eyes make the "V" shape.Saiga wrote:@DBZGTKOSDH I'm not seeing it. None of those are very good looks at Gohan, but when he's searching for the potara he definitely doesn't look locked in "angry" mode. Can't even see his eyebrows in the first picture, either.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Gohan had round eyes before his fight, and had "V" shaped eyes during his fight because he was either serious/angry (don't forget that I'm talking about the eyes, not the eyebrows).Saiga wrote:As far as I can tell they do any time after the ritual. They appear more pronounced in some panels, and that's all. Any differences are so subtle, that I don't see them being any different as Gohan at the Cell Games in and out of battle - that's a much bigger difference.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Oh, right. I'm still seeing barely any difference - it seems to vary as much between panels as does in and out of combat. I think it's just like how Toriyama drew kid Gohan differently in and out of battle, just more subtle.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Gohan had round eyes before his fight, and had "V" shaped eyes during his fight because he was either serious/angry (don't forget that I'm talking about the eyes, not the eyebrows).Saiga wrote:As far as I can tell they do any time after the ritual. They appear more pronounced in some panels, and that's all. Any differences are so subtle, that I don't see them being any different as Gohan at the Cell Games in and out of battle - that's a much bigger difference.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Well, the hairstyle never changed for no reason, and Gohan has a different hairstyle after he was resurrected (and wasn't fighting).Saiga wrote:Oh, right. I'm still seeing barely any difference - it seems to vary as much between panels as does in and out of combat. I think it's just like how Toriyama drew kid Gohan differently in and out of battle, just more subtle.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
It changed when Gohan fought Dabra, got all short out of nowhere.
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Cardle grave
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Charizard is the strongest fire type i use, Blast burn+Sunny day+Charcoal+STAB=Death to anyone who gets hit and it would have the speed advantage so it would hit first and you electric weasel will go poofTheMightyOzaru wrote:No but I am a competitive battler and your team doesn't look threatening at all. No serious player uses a Charizard. Your Salamence would get OHKOed by my Jolteon's hidden power ice, it's got nothing on Jolts.
Actually my slaking would wipe out most of your pokemon maybe 3 of them. Hyper beam+I think it gets STAB since its a normal+Its insane attack+Silk scarf=Death to anyone
And Actually this mean Vegeta MAY have surpassed SSj2 Kid gohan so that's nice
Last edited by Cardle grave on Tue Jun 18, 2013 8:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
That was just bad art.Saiga wrote:It changed when Gohan fought Dabra, got all short out of nowhere.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
It just shows that slight changes in Toriyama's art might not mean anything more than that. If Gohan was supposed to be separate from his "base" and Ultimate forms in some way, I don't think his eyes would be enclosed in both cases.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
But the difference between base & Ultimate hairstyles is not from a result from the art. The forehead bang is completely different.Saiga wrote:It just shows that slight changes in Toriyama's art might not mean anything more than that. If Gohan was supposed to be separate from his "base" and Ultimate forms in some way, I don't think his eyes would be enclosed in both cases.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
? How can it not be a result from the art?
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Although Vegeta criticizes the state of Gohan's physical appearance prior to seeing him transform or fight in battle. If the implication wasn't directed towards his present strength then I don't see why else it would matter for him to comment on that.DBZGTKOSDH wrote:Except that Vegeta never said directly that Gohan lost power. He said that Gohan was stronger as a kid, sure, but as a kid, he had trained his ass a lot, and he also got a rage boost. During Boo arc however, Gohan had gotten rusty & couldn't take power from his rage, which is what makes him weaker than before, IMO.Son_Gohan wrote:Super Saiyan forms are supposed to act as multipliers of Gohan's normal strength, so they are all naturally connected. When Gohan gets injured and loses strength while transformed, for example, reverting back to normal shouldn't make him totally fine again, he would still be in a weakened state. Conversely, when he gains power from anger while transformed, his other forms would also increase accordingly. Hence the power he would have as a Super Saiyan reflects the condition of his base form, and if he's stated to be weaker in one form, then he undoubtedly lost power.
Granted, it's interesting that the entry would bring up Gohan not gaining power from anger, as it's an issue he only struggles with after leaving the tournament. I don't know if I'd say the intent is clear enough to establish the books contradicting each other based on what is actually written on the matter.Saiga wrote: Basically, this Daizenshuu has a section where it shows the debuts of various characters and forms. For teen Gohan's SS2, it has the debut as volume 37, instead of volume 37+. In the context of this section, that implies it wasn't used after volume 37, however, they make the same mistake with Gohan's Ultimate form (it appears in volume 41 & 42 but the Daizenshuu only says 41 instead of 41+) and Goku's adult "form". So it's nothing more than an implication and it isn't even reliable due to other errors of the same type.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Like I said before, Vegeta said that SS2 Gohan wasn't as strong as he was in the Cell Games because he wasn't angry. Vegeta has only seen Raged SS2 Gohan in the past, and in the Tenkaichi Budokai, Gohan wasn't angry.Son_Gohan wrote:Although Vegeta criticizes the state of Gohan's physical appearance prior to seeing him transform or fight in battle. If the implication wasn't directed towards his present strength then I don't see why else it would matter for him to comment on that.
Gohan got angry in the Budokai, and he was also angry when he was trying to prevent Boo's revival. The problem is, however, that he didn't gain any power from his anger.Son_Gohan wrote:Granted, it's interesting that the entry would bring up Gohan not gaining power from anger, as it's an issue he only struggles with after leaving the tournament. I don't know if I'd say the intent is clear enough to establish the books contradicting each other based on what is actually written on the matter.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Gohan did not lose power, only his anger and fighting skills
Gohan as a kid had anger fueling his SSj2 as that is how he killed cell as that is what vegeta was targeting when he said he was stronger when he killed cell. And Goku even commented that if he used his angry like he did against cell then he would be stronger then everyone (up to that point)
So SSj2 adult=SSj2 Kid but as a Kid he used his emotions more thus drawing out more power
Gohan as a kid had anger fueling his SSj2 as that is how he killed cell as that is what vegeta was targeting when he said he was stronger when he killed cell. And Goku even commented that if he used his angry like he did against cell then he would be stronger then everyone (up to that point)
So SSj2 adult=SSj2 Kid but as a Kid he used his emotions more thus drawing out more power
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PerfectFreeza
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Vegeta says he lost power during his fight with Dabra.
Goku then says it because of slacking off.
How would he lose anger by slacking off.
Goku then says it because of slacking off.
How would he lose anger by slacking off.
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Re: Did Gohan even lose power?
Because for 7 years he hasn't been fighting thus not giving a chance for his angry to let loose, 7 years no training and studying. If he lost power then he wouldnt need to vs dabura to know it since he saw him before. Obviously his targeting his skills and was only talking about when he was enrage, Hence why he said "when he KILLED cell" as that was when he was angry. So thats the gohan that vegeta is comparing to. Hence why his so much weaker. Even goku knew if gohan got angry he would be stronger then himselfPerfectFreeza wrote:Vegeta says he lost power during his fight with Dabra.
Goku then says it because of slacking off.
How would he lose anger by slacking off.