Discussion, generally of an in-universe nature, regarding any aspect of the franchise (including movies, spin-offs, etc.) such as: techniques, character relationships, internal back-history, its universe, and more.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Kami in GT. He's 10,000 times stronger than Buuhan somehow, that's why his Dragon Balls were able to affect Goku.
Or, they were tied to the current Piccolo, who is now 10,000 times stronger than Buuhan as a result of hax Piccolo training gains
Piccolo can actually solo all of GT; he just lets Goku handle the dirty work because it's beneath him.
He's not the one who created the Black Star Dragon Balls. The Dragon Balls explicitly can't effect someone stronger than their creator; that's the whole reason everyone couldn't just wish the villains away. These Dragon Balls' ability to effect Goku clearly means Kami/Piccolo > Goku until he gets SS4.
Or, they were tied to the current Piccolo, who is now 10,000 times stronger than Buuhan as a result of hax Piccolo training gains
Piccolo can actually solo all of GT; he just lets Goku handle the dirty work because it's beneath him.
He survived a Kamehameha from Super Saiyan GT Gohan, who's base form is stronger than Mystic Gohan. He also took over hell, which has Rildo down there, who is stronger than Anime Kid Buu. GT Piccolo is probably in the range of a few dozen times stronger than Buuhan.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
You did not seriously just say GT Gohan is stronger than Mystic Gohan from Z. Dude, the guy NEVER trains unless its needed. How many years does GT start after Z? Its 10 right? Look what 7 years of slacking off did for him in the beginning of the Buu saga. You think a whole decade of not training isnt gonna weaken him? GT Gohan is one of his weakest incarnations. Even his SSJ2 form from the Cell saga could whoop his incarnation from GT.
RandomGuy96 wrote:He's not the one who created the Black Star Dragon Balls. The Dragon Balls explicitly can't effect someone stronger than their creator; that's the whole reason everyone couldn't just wish the villains away. These Dragon Balls' ability to effect Goku clearly means Kami/Piccolo > Goku until he gets SS4.
The original Dragon Balls also can't do anything "beyond their creator's power", but the Ultimate Dragon Balls are said to be able to grant any wish. So I'm pretty sure all the other rules, besides the whole gather them in a year so your planet don't explode thing, get tossed out of the window.
KentalSSJ6 wrote:You did not seriously just say GT Gohan is stronger than Mystic Gohan from Z. Dude, the guy NEVER trains unless its needed. How many years does GT start after Z? Its 10 right? Look what 7 years of slacking off did for him in the beginning of the Buu saga. You think a whole decade of not training isnt gonna weaken him? GT Gohan is one of his weakest incarnations. Even his SSJ2 form from the Cell saga could whoop his incarnation from GT.
GT perfect files state that he didn't neglect his training between Z and GT...
Last edited by TheDevilsCorpse on Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:58 am, edited 2 times in total.
Direct translations of the Korean DB Online timeline and guidebook.
My personal "canon" and BP list. (Coming Soon)
Also, him losing his Mystic state due to lack of training would be stupid and basically violate the point of the form. And him going from several times stronger than SS3 Goku to much weaker than SS2 Goku just from not training? LolNO.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Ok so he didnt neglect his training entirely but I still find it hard to believe GT Base Gohan surpasses Z Mystic Gohan. I forget if Baby's possession gave him a boost or not but regardless, id say Z Mystic Gohan is still overall his strongest incarnation we have seen.
In GT, he still has the Mystic eyes, and there's no reason he'd just randomly lose the form.
The Monkey King wrote:
RandomGuy96 wrote:
dbgtFO wrote:
Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.
It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWoke
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
Cipher wrote:This is my favorite thread in the whole wide world because it contained a bitter, two-page argument about magic pants.
That is all.
Isn't it great? Gotta love GT.
Step into the Grand tour. GRAND TOUR GRAND TOUR. Step into the Grand Tour DRAGON BALL GT......I think I threw up a little
Anyways how come no one mentions the shirts that respawn magically. I kinda treat SSJ4 like the fusion dance.
Why Dragon Ball Consistency in something such as power levels matter!
Spoiler:
Doctor. wrote:I've explained before, I'll just paraphrase myself.
Power levels establish tension and drama. People who care about them (well, people who care about them in a narrative) don't care about the big numbers or the fancy explosions. If you have character A who's so much above character B, who's the main character, you're gonna be left wondering how in the hell character B, the character we're supposed to care and root for, is going to escape the situation or overcome the odds. It makes us emotionally invested.
If character B doesn't escape the situation in a believable way that's consistent with previous events, then that emotional investment is gone. It was pointless tension, pointless drama made just to suck in the viewer. It has no critical value whatsoever. The audience is left believing that the author can just create whatever scenarios he wants and what happens to the characters is decided by whatever the author wants to happen, regardless of the events that happened in the story. Which, in fairness, is what happens, but the audience wants to be fooled. The audience wants to know that the world they're following has rules. That the world they're invested in isn't going to bend to external factors that are irrelevant to them.
An author can do whatever he wants with the characters, that's not false. But the author should also have the responsibility to make sure it fits in cohesively with the other events in the narrative he has created.
Saiga wrote: My point about trying to make two dissimilar things sound alike IS directed at you (and DBZGTKOSDH)
Well, the thing is - they're really not so incompatible within the context. I can't really see how you're struggling to get your head around it, other than that you've just kind of ring-fenced all of the stuff from the original work as 'safe' and you view concepts from GT, no matter how logically similar within the context, as being 'alien'.
I know that you personally didn't say this, but I find it rather exasperating where you get people making lurid home-brew assumptions and explanations as to the mechanics of how the Fusion dance can generate clothing, whereas when it comes to the Super Saiyan 4 transformation, they brand the concept as being logically impossible and immediately throw it out with near-disgust. I know that the original work is sacra-saint to a lot of people on here, and that's totally fine - because this is a Dragonball Z fan forum, but sometimes it makes for some absolutely turgid reading when it comes to debates. Sometimes the logic employed in these threads is equally as crazy as the mechanics within Dragonball.
So you're just going to keep assuming I'm doing this entirely to discredit GT and put Z in a better light, despite me saying otherwise? Because you sure seem to loooooove repeating that.
Fusion and Super Saiyan 4's pants aren't the same thing. Even ignoring the guidebook classification, I said that we are TOLD the reason for fusion's clothing. It's the metamoran's clothing and part of the technique. Super Saiyan 4's pants are not explained, they are not mentioned, they are completely ignored.
I'm re-watching Dragon Ball GT in full on my blog. Check it out if you're interested in my thoughts on the series as I watch through it!
KentalSSJ6 wrote:Can we all just agree the pants were a plot device used by Toei so they didnt have to show SSJ4 Goku naked?
No. I like my theory that SSJ4 is like the result of the Fusion Dance and subconsciously manifests clothing. Think about how SSJ4 appears after the first transformation; it's almost magic-like, like the SSJ4 body's in reserve from another place.
Guys, don't take the GT power statements/feats seriously at all, just go by logic. Except if you take seriously that Yamcha is as strong as SS Goku, that Mutaito is stronger than Goku (Daimao arc), who is stronger than Daimao, who is stronger than Mutaito, or that SS Goku & SS Vegeta are stronger than Ultimate Gohan & SS3 Gotenks.
RandomGuy96 wrote:Kami in GT. He's 10,000 times stronger than Buuhan somehow, that's why his Dragon Balls were able to affect Goku.
Dude, you do realize that the reason why the Ultimate Dragon Balls are so special is because they can affect anyone, including those who are stronger than their creator. The creator of the Ultimate Dragon Balls is Katatz's son before he split into Kami & Piccolo Daimao.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
