In defense of the Faulconer score

[penguintruth]

It's not an opinion that it's not really DBZ's music, that much is certain.

[Roland_ELoG]

You can state facts (ie: the American replacement score GASP isn't the same as the Japanese one). Why though, do you have to state your opinions like such an asshole?

I mean jeezus. I don't call anyone's hard work soulless. That's just... soulless.

[penguintruth]

I'm not interested in the work. I'm interested in the results.

[Roland_ELoG]

That sounds awfully soulless.

Results driven work is exactly that "shallow, factory manufactured" stuff you decry so vehemently.

[thaman91]

The counterfeit soundtrack, which is what I call any replacement music of DBZ, whether you prefer it or not, is certainly not the music intended for the show, and therefore can never truly be the music of the show.

That aside, most of it's still very superficial, shallow, factory manufactured filler sound bed material. A lot of droning and croaking electronics and machine sounds, not something I object to as a rule, but utilized coldly and in excess. The real problem is that there's actually some potential in several pieces, but, and this is even more true of full tracks, the precious little good lasts for but moments and then lapses into nonsense static sounds.

It's a perfect representation of the English dub itself, though, which is why the dub so ill fits the Kikuchi track. Shallow, droning, and obnoxious. Blaring and manufactured. Stripping the spirit of the show.

Lol the only downside to the Faulconer score is "mickey-mousing". Other than that, it's vastly superior to Kikuchi's (in my opinon). Kikuchi's isn't exciting enough for what's being shown. But I guess it is the original version so you can argue that that's how it's supposed to be. Meh, I can accept your claims that the dub version isn't DBZ. But whatever show us dub fans are watching, I really like watching and listening to it!

[penguintruth]

Kikuchi has a grander feel with its orchestral sound, a larger, more operatic emotion resides in it. It's appropriate for a sort of modern wuxia that DB/Z is.

[Roland_ELoG]

My read (a biased one, since I first watched the show with FUNimation muzak), is that Dragon Ball Z takes such a univsere-hopping departure from the martial arts genre and into sci-fi fantasy that the Kikuichi music is less appropriate than it was in Dragon Ball.

I just don't think it fits. Which, again, is impossible to extricate from my bias of not watching the show in Japanese until the DVD home release. But my first experience was something along the lines of "huh, this sounds like 50s monster music to me." The FUnimation music is almost unrelated; it fits the English dub well enough, but the dub has a different tone that itself doesn't fit the Japanese version.

[kei17]

That sounds awfully soulless.

What's the problem with that? He's just faithfully critical.

My read (a biased one, since I first watched the show with FUNimation muzak), is that Dragon Ball Z takes such a univsere-hopping departure from the martial arts genre and into sci-fi fantasy that the Kikuichi music is less appropriate than it was in Dragon Ball.

Kikuchi shifted his style to non-ethnic sci-fi action music from oriental kungfu music in the original DB, which I think was enough to adapt his score to Z's mood.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cDDyM7dYhkE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=egk6zHoI5VQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_jAOsa7kzA4

[Big Momma]

This may be a bit late, but I'd like to speak on the whole "Kikuchi's music sounds dated" issue.


Why would that be an issue? Do people believe that old music is bad? That it can't appeal to a modern audience? I'm calling bupkis on that. I was a child of the 90s, but I (along with many other children before and after my generation) watched and enjoyed shows like "The Flinstones", "Looney Tunes", and "Scooby Doo" and "Astro Boy". Those shows had scores that were even more dated than Kikuchi, but were still enjoyed and watched long after their "time". I'm positive the show would have been successful without the replacement score. Don't get me wrong, I like a lot of the Falcouner tracks, and it fits the dub that it came with. But neither of those are what Dragon Ball/Z is or should be, IMO.

The show was successful in plenty of other countries using the original score in it's own right before it was brought over here, why was it decided that American children are "Different" and needed these changes to enjoy it? To make it "better" for them? Why is it that this country is one of (if not the) most diverse country in the world, but yet we're still so accepting of other countries properties and customs (Sometimes borderline Xenophobic)? This kind of stuff still goes on today. Why do people feel the need to change things that were good enough to warrant a localization in the first place? Why do American audiences need this special treatment? Why don't subtitled films usually do well here? Or foreign films in general? This country is much too caught up changing things to fit the "American Way", which is really just a combination of different cultures in the first place. It's maddening.




EDIT: Sorry if this is unorganized. It's 3:30AM and I've been up all night studying for a test I have in about 5 hours.

[penguintruth]

I'm assuming (but don't hold me to it) the "dated" thing means that, for whatever reason, it's easier to enjoy a show with a sleeker, more modern-sounding stereo soundtrack with the sort of sound that you hear in a lot of action movies and the like. Especially if it was going to be on American television with other shows made years later that it would sound very strangely in comparison to.

Sort of a cynical ploy by Funimation, but obviously there are people who agree, albeit conveniently in hindsight.

[90sDBZ]

The Faulconer score may have issues with a lack of silence(which was ordered by Funi) but it isn't soulless by any means. A lot of people talk about it like it only concentrates on action 100% of the time which quite frankly isn't true. There are some truly beautiful pieces in there like when Mr Popo manages to spread the Sacred Water over the earth in the Garlic Jr saga, the music that plays were Gohan, Krillin and Dende are in front of Porunga, when Goku meets Goten, when Old Kai gives up his life, the music that plays when Gohan flies through the countryside on Icarus, the music when Gohan dreams of Goku returning home etc..

Apart from that it there's also suspenseful pieces like Super Buu's various themes, the music that plays when Piccolo walks through Ginger town and the music when 2nd Form Frieza is making up his mind who to kill first.

There are people who get genuinely emotional listening to the score so it clearly isn't soulless to them. I've also seen some accuse the score of not being memorable. To be honest I find Kikuchi's Z score to be largely forgettable compared to Faulconer.

[Kakarot88]

There are people who get genuinely emotional listening to the score so it clearly isn't soulless to them.

It's my favorite music to lift to!
This playlist is Guaranteed to get you swole:
Vegeta's Theme, SS Vegeta, Gohan v. Cell Juniors, Destruction, Goku transforms, Perfect Cell's theme, Vegeta fights Frieza, Goku SS3, Mytic Gohan, Super Boo.

[Roland_ELoG]

There are people who get genuinely emotional listening to the score so it clearly isn't soulless to them. I've also seen some accuse the score of not being memorable. To be honest I find Kikuchi's Z score to be largely forgettable compared to Faulconer.

I think it really is about when you heard it. I grew up watching DBZ, and then reruns of DBZ, and the Faulconer score is lodged in the childhood pleasure center of my brain.

What's the problem with that? He's just faithfully critical.

There are a lot of ways to be a critic without insulting other people's work. If you don't like it, fine. But why suggest that it was made lazily? Or carelessly? In any case, I'm in favor of honest criticism; hence why I voice my opinion that the Kikuichi score sounds unfitting for the show as I perceive it.

[Thanos]

..Again, the issue isn't whether the Faulconer score is good or not, it's about whether or not it represents a legitimate interpretation of the series.


And no, it doesn't. As I said, the tracks could be eargasmic, flawless and perfect to the series, but that still wouldn't justify its very existence. There was already a perfectly legitimate soundtrack to the series that was received perfectly by literally everyone else in the world. Maybe if the series had been a flop everywhere but in the US, there would be some traction to these theories that the replacement score aided the series in gaining credibility stateside. I would say the show probably would've been just as well-received had it not even had music at all; what kid actually cares about the soundtrack of a show? Unless you're Beethoven or some kind of musical prodigy, then odds are, you probably barely notice what's going on musically.

[90sDBZ]

..Again, the issue isn't whether the Faulconer score is good or not, it's about whether or not it represents a legitimate interpretation of the series.


And no, it doesn't. As I said, the tracks could be eargasmic, flawless and perfect to the series, but that still wouldn't justify its very existence. There was already a perfectly legitimate soundtrack to the series that was received perfectly by literally everyone else in the world. Maybe if the series had been a flop everywhere but in the US, there would be some traction to these theories that the replacement score aided the series in gaining credibility stateside. I would say the show probably would've been just as well-received had it not even had music at all; what kid actually cares about the soundtrack of a show? Unless you're Beethoven or some kind of musical prodigy, then odds are, you probably barely notice what's going on musically.

I have to disagree with you on that. Even when I was watching DBZ for the first time at about 7 or 8 years old the music was a major part of the series appeal for me. No other cartoon had music that was so memorable and fit every scene so well as the Faulconer and Levy scores from DBZ. Faulconer's music MADE the spirit bomb episode for me. It just wouldn't have been as exciting and suspenseful without it and I would always look forward to that episode every time it came on because I knew I'd get to hear the incredible music. I actually looked forward to the music as much as I did the big events of the show. Another scene that was great in the dub was when Goku arrived on the battlefield against the Saiyans and that triumphant and hopeful music from the Levy score came on. Whenever I heard that I knew Goku would come and dramatically save the day.

When the Westwood Ocean dub started airing in the UK I didn't enjoy DBZ anywhere near as much as before mostly because of the music it used. It just didn't do DBZ justice in my eyes(or ears) and lacked the excitement and emotion of the Faulconer and Levy scores. Instead of sounding unique it made DBZ sound like a Saturday morning cartoon(which is what the Westwood dub music was recycled from) and that to me took away a large and essential part of the shows appeal.

And if DBZ actually had used no music at all I'm almost certain it would have been a failure. Even the most simpleminded kids would be turned off from it if there was a constant silence.

[JulieYBM]

Thanos isn't talking about opinions, he's talking about facts. The aforementioned replacement score has nothing to do with Dragon Ball Z. An individual might like said replacement score, but that is entirely irrelevant to what just so happens to be Dragon Ball Z.

It's not a big deal folks, you don't like Dragon Ball Z. Accept it and stop fooling yourselves into thinking you need approval to like FUNimation's dub by declaring it to be what it is not.

[thaman91]

..Again, the issue isn't whether the Faulconer score is good or not, it's about whether or not it represents a legitimate interpretation of the series.


And no, it doesn't. As I said, the tracks could be eargasmic, flawless and perfect to the series, but that still wouldn't justify its very existence. There was already a perfectly legitimate soundtrack to the series that was received perfectly by literally everyone else in the world. Maybe if the series had been a flop everywhere but in the US, there would be some traction to these theories that the replacement score aided the series in gaining credibility stateside. I would say the show probably would've been just as well-received had it not even had music at all; what kid actually cares about the soundtrack of a show? Unless you're Beethoven or some kind of musical prodigy, then odds are, you probably barely notice what's going on musically.

I actually think the issue is whether or not the Faulconer score is good and makes the show enjoyable to watch. In my opinion, the reason people are getting upset is not because people are claiming that we didn't watch a legitimate version of Dragonball Z, but because people are saying that what we did watch sucked. I do not at all mind other people's assertions that the Funimation dub was a completely different show.

So just to clarify, when people say "the Faulconer score is not a legitimate interpretation of the series" I am completely OK with that.
But when people say "the Faulconer score completely sucked and it was just mindless noise everywhere" I am not OK with that.

[Roland_ELoG]

Agreed. I am taking umbrage at the callous way some commenters are writing off OTHER HUMANS because they had... a job to do? I guess?

It's not a fact that the replacement score has nothing to do with Dragon Ball Z. It is, often, paired with Dragon Ball Z. It was on TV for several years, and is now available on Digital Versatile Disc for public purchase and consumption. There are audio CDs with the music, and big ol' Dragon Ball Z logos. It is also not a fact that the score was made by mindless corporate worker drones. One of the actual people who worked on the score (who would probably be as close as you can get to an authority on the topic) has even made that point.

It is an opinion that some people (maybe even you, yes you) do not care for it. Stating opinions as facts from behind your unassailable position of perceived intellectual superiority is absurd. We are all people, all with a right to our opinions.


EDIT: Wait, am I seriously trying to get people to be nice to each other, on a forum? I just now realized how ridiculous that is.

[penguintruth]

So just to clarify, when people say "the Faulconer score is not a legitimate interpretation of the series" I am completely OK with that.
But when people say "the Faulconer score completely sucked and it was just mindless noise everywhere" I am not OK with that.

I'm saying both of those things. The Faulconer score is not the real DBZ music and it's pretty bad to boot.

[thaman91]

So just to clarify, when people say "the Faulconer score is not a legitimate interpretation of the series" I am completely OK with that.
But when people say "the Faulconer score completely sucked and it was just mindless noise everywhere" I am not OK with that.

I'm saying both of those things. The Faulconer score is not the real DBZ music and it's pretty bad to boot.

Nah, the Faulconer score is good!
And it definitely is the real DBZ dub music lol