Goku specifically told Piccolo to not send them into RoSaT, because there was no need to.mAcChaos wrote:He probably planned them to go into RoSaT. Which makes me wonder what would have happened if Goku just ignored his time limit on Earth and went into the RoSaT with them.
Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Was that before Piccolo's quote?
I was just wondering because Goku would be in another dimension so it seems he would be safe from the afterlife.
I was just wondering because Goku would be in another dimension so it seems he would be safe from the afterlife.
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DBZGTKOSDH
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
After that, when the plan was to teach the kids Fusion.mAcChaos wrote:Was that before Piccolo's quote?
I think that had Goku stayed more time on the Living World, he would die again & get erased from existence.mAcChaos wrote:I was just wondering because Goku would be in another dimension so it seems he would be safe from the afterlife.
James Teal (Animerica 1996) wrote:When you think about it, there are a number of similarities between the Chinese-inspired Son Goku and that most American of superhero icons, Superman. Both are aliens sent to Earth shortly after birth to escape the destruction of their homeworlds; both possess super-strength, flight, super-speed, heightened senses and the ability to cast energy blasts. But the crucial difference between them lies not only in how they view the world, but in how the world views them.
Superman is, and always has been, a symbol for truth, justice, and upstanding moral fortitude–a role model and leader as much as a fighter. The more down-to-earth Goku has no illusions about being responsible for maintaining social order, or for setting some kind of moral example for the entire world. Goku is simply a martial artist who’s devoted his life toward perfecting his fighting skills and other abilities. Though never shy about risking his life to save either one person or the entire world, he just doesn’t believe that the balance of the world rests in any way on his shoulders, and he has no need to shape any part of it in his image. Goku is an idealist, and believes that there is some good in everyone, but he is unconcerned with the big picture of the world…unless it has to do with some kind of fight. Politics, society, law and order don’t have much bearing on his life, but he’s a man who knows right from wrong.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Ok, with the revelation that Hirudegarn > Janenba, I just decided to switch back to my previous list.
Ssj2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Ssj Gotenks(Pre): 21,000,000,000
Ssj2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Ssj Gotenks(Pre): 21,000,000,000
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Sounds about right that would put Ssj3 Goku at 32,000,000,000.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ok, with the revelation that Hirudegarn > Janenba, I just decided to switch back to my previous list.
Ssj2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Ssj Gotenks(Pre): 21,000,000,000
Kendamu wrote:This is an 80s/90s animated all-ages show that was popular amongst kids. It's not some potent super weapon that might fall into the wrong hands that we have to protect from evil.AjayLikesGaming wrote:If you put out untouched footage, someone like me is going to take it and turn it into a perfect release. Someone not like me is going to do the same and share it instead. You give pirates the opportunity to do better than companies and people will jump on that so fast.
Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
How did that change anything.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ok, with the revelation that Hirudegarn > Janenba, I just decided to switch back to my previous list.
Ssj2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Ssj Gotenks(Pre): 21,000,000,000
I should watch those movies one of these days.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
It changed my opinion because I didn't like my previous list with Janenba being roughly on par with Buuhan. Now he's like 1.33 times stronger than Super Buu, which is fine.mAcChaos wrote:How did that change anything.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Ok, with the revelation that Hirudegarn > Janenba, I just decided to switch back to my previous list.
Ssj2 Vegeta: 8,000,000,000
Ssj Gotenks(Pre): 21,000,000,000
I should watch those movies one of these days.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
But it looks like you have SSJ2 Vegeta weaker than SSJ Gogtenks pre RoSaT. Weren't you arguing the opposite just now.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
He shouldn't be anywhere near as strong as Super Buu or even SS2 Gotenks, since Goku was able to put up a fight against him.It changed my opinion because I didn't like my previous list with Janenba being roughly on par with Buuhan. Now he's like 1.33 times stronger than Super Buu, which is fine.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Above Fatty Raw Burger Boo but below the Pink Hotdog Super Boo? Perhaps he's Gray Boo. Hell maybe just slightly ahead of Pure BooRandomGuy96 wrote:He shouldn't even be anywhere near as strong as Super Buu, since Goku was able to put up a fight against him.It changed my opinion because I didn't like my previous list with Janenba being roughly on par with Buuhan. Now he's like 1.33 times stronger than Super Buu, which is fine.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
This is Toei Goku, and it seems Janenba was toying with him if you ask me.RandomGuy96 wrote:He shouldn't be anywhere near as strong as Super Buu or even SS2 Gotenks, since Goku was able to put up a fight against him.It changed my opinion because I didn't like my previous list with Janenba being roughly on par with Buuhan. Now he's like 1.33 times stronger than Super Buu, which is fine.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
That's where I have him.Above Fatty Raw Burger Boo but below the Pink Hotdog Super Boo? Perhaps he's Gray Boo. Hell maybe just slightly ahead of Pure Boo
Movie 13 powers:
SS Gotenks (pre)- 19,000,000,000
SS3 Goku- 32,400,000,000
Janemba- 20,000,000,000
--Super Janemba- 40,000,000,000
SS Gogeta- 52,000,000,000
(for reference)
Grey Buu- 40,000,000,000
Pure Buu- 36,000,000,000
Pure Buu level seems good for him. They seem to be film counterparts and have similar feats. Hell, it's arguable if Janemba is stronger than Goku at all.
Strange, because whenever someone brings up Toei logic in a movie, you say that doesn't matter because you're trying to apply manga logic.This is Toei Goku, and it seems Janenba was toying with him if you ask me.
Didn't seem like that. He was pretty pissed when Goku was hitting him; one of Goku's blows even stunned him in pain for several seconds. His battle power was never noted to rise past that point either, and he actually had to use special abilities to beat Goku. If he could just one-shot him, he would've, like he did with Vegeta.
Dude's get zero statements or feats even putting him above SS Gotenks (pre). He tends to be overrated a lot, usually as an extension of Gogeta/Goku overrating. Kind of Broly-esque, actually, right down to the games portraying him as mega OP.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
You do know that Gogeta didn't even flinch when he was punched by an enraged Janenba right? 52,000,000,000 is waaaaaaay too low. He has to at least be 1.5 time stronger, and even then, that seems quite low.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
He wasn't at full power when he punched Gogeta due to Gogeta beating him up. Injured Janemba is only 35 billion.TheMightyOzaru wrote:You do know that Gogeta didn't even flinch when he was punched by an enraged Janenba right? 52,000,000,000 is waaaaaaay too low. He has to at least be 1.5 time stronger, and even then, that seems quite low.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Still too low.RandomGuy96 wrote:He wasn't at full power when he punched Gogeta due to Gogeta beating him up. Injured Janemba is only 35 billion.TheMightyOzaru wrote:You do know that Gogeta didn't even flinch when he was punched by an enraged Janenba right? 52,000,000,000 is waaaaaaay too low. He has to at least be 1.5 time stronger, and even then, that seems quite low.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
How/Why?TheMightyOzaru wrote:Still too low.RandomGuy96 wrote:He wasn't at full power when he punched Gogeta due to Gogeta beating him up. Injured Janemba is only 35 billion.TheMightyOzaru wrote:You do know that Gogeta didn't even flinch when he was punched by an enraged Janenba right? 52,000,000,000 is waaaaaaay too low. He has to at least be 1.5 time stronger, and even then, that seems quite low.
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RandomGuy96
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
No, it's really not. Unless you can prove conclusively that you need to be exactly X% of your opponent for them not to flinch. I'm probably overrating Gogeta if anything, as a consequence of overrating Janemba, who might be weaker than Goku.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Still too low.RandomGuy96 wrote:He wasn't at full power when he punched Gogeta due to Gogeta beating him up. Injured Janemba is only 35 billion.TheMightyOzaru wrote:You do know that Gogeta didn't even flinch when he was punched by an enraged Janenba right? 52,000,000,000 is waaaaaaay too low. He has to at least be 1.5 time stronger, and even then, that seems quite low.
The Monkey King wrote:It was actually Beerus disguised as Zarbon #StayWokeRandomGuy96 wrote:He's probably referring to the Bardock special. Zarbon was the one who first recommended destroying Planet Vegeta because the saiyans were rapidly growing in strength.dbgtFO wrote: Please elaborate as I do not know what you mean by "pushing Vegeta's destruction"
Herms wrote:The fact that the ridiculous power inflation is presented so earnestly makes me just roll my eyes and snicker. Like with Freeza, where he starts off over 10 times stronger than all his henchmen except Ginyu (because...well, just because), then we find out he can transform and get even more powerful, and then he reveals he can transform two more times, before finally coming out with the fact that he hasn't even been using anywhere near 50% of his power. Oh, and he can survive in the vacuum of space. All this stuff is just presented as the way Freeza is, without even an attempt at rationalizing it, yet the tone dictates we're supposed to take all this silly grasping at straws as thrilling danger. So I guess I don't really take the power inflation in the Boo arc seriously, but I don't take the power inflation in earlier arcs seriously either, so there's no net loss of seriousness. I think a silly story presented as serious is harder to accept than a silly story presented as silly.
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TheMightyOzaru
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Well, Gohan was able to put up a fight against Buutenks, whom is most likely around 1.5 times stronger. I'd say a 2 times difference is good enough.
Vegeta: "Funny... I seem to recall Kakarot being fed the same information right before he transformed; the distinct look on your faces when he went Super Saiyan didn't exactly inspire confidence. One does not predict or calculate power like ours."
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Getting beaten up doesn't necessarily reduce your power. Getting super exhausted would.
Vegeta tanked a punch from 2nd form Cell, and that still pushed his head back. So Gogeta's gap would have to be bigger than the one between those two.
Vegeta tanked a punch from 2nd form Cell, and that still pushed his head back. So Gogeta's gap would have to be bigger than the one between those two.
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TheGmGoken
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Re: Vegeta > Gotenks(Pre)
Since we're using the anime(Which Boo Arc anime was better than Boo arc manga IMO) then very well Goenks Boo was just warming up.TheMightyOzaru wrote:Well, Gohan was able to put up a fight against Buutenks, whom is most likely around 1.5 times stronger. I'd say a 2 times difference is good enough.